Safety first

[pdqdl]

Fast forward to around 2 min gas saw first then he does a battery saw

Lots more videos out there of chaps bringing battery saws to a stop.

Now I'm not contesting the results of the video, but that wasn't a fair test.
1. The pro-saw was floated above the chaps until it cut in and wrapped up the chaps. The battery operated saw was kinda dropped directly into the chaps.
2. A log isn't a fair substrate. Unlike human flesh, is isn't flexible nor will it move around as forces are applied, as would a human leg. I suspect chaps would work even better to stop a saw if the leg were to move around a bit, but then again, the chaps would certainly roll off the leg as the chainsaw began yanking on it. Those things are not held on with winch straps, you know.

By the way, I have a battery operated Stihl, similar to the one pictured, but an earlier model (it's the "160'). It is a JOKE compared to weakest gas saw I have ever used. I've heard other brands of battery operated saw are quite impressive, however. I did impress a very important client once with it, as it was very quiet and delivers clean cuts. He was equally impressed with my handsaw, however, and the battery didn't die on that tool.

 

[sean donato]

Now I'm not contesting the results of the video, but that wasn't a fair test.
1. The pro-saw was floated above the chaps until it cut in and wrapped up the chaps. The battery operated saw was kinda dropped directly into the chaps.
2. A log isn't a fair substrate. Unlike human flesh, is isn't flexible nor will it move around as forces are applied, as would a human leg. I suspect chaps would work even better to stop a saw if the leg were to move around a bit, but then again, the chaps would certainly roll off the leg as the chainsaw began yanking on it. Those things are not held on with winch straps, you know.

Yeah I agree, it's not a fair or even way to test, and lacks some scientific aspects to real world oopsie. But it's close enough to demonstrate that chaps will stop the saw.

 

[pdqdl]

Yea like this one that popped up after yours was finished. Too long and wordy but shows that cheap chaps will stop but the battery saw was able to start again with the low end torque they have.

It is equally arguable that the battery operated saw was able to restart (once removed from the chaps) because it was so easy to stop that it never got fully blocked.

Battery operated saws do indeed have more "torque" at low speeds, because a gas saw simply doesn't engage at lower speeds. The gas saws do have considerably higher horsepower, and they don't get weaker with every passing minute.

If you wish to compare torque on the chainsaws, just see which saw gets stopped in a cut quicker and under the least feed pressure. When you pull against the bucking spikes, and dig in, that's when horsepower and torque are displayed. Batteries just don't have that kind of power. ...Yet.

 

[pdqdl]

Yeah, I know the difference. My daughter found me blacked out on the floor and ended up in the er for the night. I'm very cautious since. My Dr kinda chewed me out, I kept trying to tell him I was drinking plenty of water. He went on to explain its not just the water, I had sweat all my electrolyte out and my blood sugar was out of whack as well. I guess he had spoken with my wife on the phone, and she told him I hadn't eaten that day either. Guess I screwed myself in about every way I could.
I use this stuff called skratch. Some sort of powder stuff you mix in with water. Doesn't taste like much, but is a little sweet. Doesn't make my gut ach like Gatorade and the like.
I'll tell you this, that was a major wake up call for me. I'm only 34, was 32 when it happened and I've worked outdoors my entire life. Never been affected by the heat, cold whatever. I don't know what changed in me but I'm just a ***** anymore lol.

What you described would be heat exhaustion. Just sayin'.

 

[Backstage]

My Ego battery saw seems to have some kind of torque limiting sensor. You stress it (I 100% believe chap hit would do it) and it shuts down as if the chain brake activated.

 

[sean donato]

What you described would be heat exhaustion. Just sayin'.

No offense, but the ambulance ride, dunk in a ice filled tub, 103.2 temp, close to kidney failure, racing heart, and blacking out wasn't heat exhaustion. I'm blissfully aware of the difference. Well that and the ER Dr telling me I had a heat stroke, I'm just a dumb hick so I probably didn't hear the Dr right.

 

[OM617YOTA]

I went through that cycle of health problems about 10 years ago. I discovered that when the heat exhaustion was coming on strong, all I had to do was go drink some sugar water. NO amount of water worked, but a cola, OJ, Gatoraid would get the physiology working right.

It turns out that our physiology stops working right, and our blood sugar drops. The quickest way back to walking upright for me was to restore my blood sugar and then carry on with a bit more moderation in how hard I was working.

Be sure that you know the difference between heat exhaustion and heat stroke, however. Heat exhaustion will transition into heat stroke if you have some really bad luck.

Sugar also helps your body absorb electrolytes.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Yeah, I know the difference. My daughter found me blacked out on the floor and ended up in the er for the night. I'm very cautious since. My Dr kinda chewed me out, I kept trying to tell him I was drinking plenty of water. He went on to explain its not just the water, I had sweat all my electrolyte out and my blood sugar was out of whack as well. I guess he had spoken with my wife on the phone, and she told him I hadn't eaten that day either. Guess I screwed myself in about every way I could.
I use this stuff called skratch. Some sort of powder stuff you mix in with water. Doesn't taste like much, but is a little sweet. Doesn't make my gut ach like Gatorade and the like.
I'll tell you this, that was a major wake up call for me. I'm only 34, was 32 when it happened and I've worked outdoors my entire life. Never been affected by the heat, cold whatever. I don't know what changed in me but I'm just a ***** anymore lol.

My go-to's for electrolyte replenishment are V8 juice, pickles + drink water separately, and coconut water. Gatorade occasionally, but I avoid it due to the sugar, dyes, and artificial chemicals.

Sugar is an IBS trigger for me, so I avoid most of it.

 

[Captain Bruce]

FWIW, I've heard that chaps don't work with battery saws, They only work with high-speed, low-torque stuff like chainsaws...battery saws power right through kevlar. (Or so I've heard...)

Ridiculous, and completly incorrect. "If it doesn't make sense, it must be a conspiracy....."

 

[bucketofguts]

Since we are mentioning stuff other than PPE, it is probably wise to remember another safety tip that probably causes more injuries than any failure to wear your PPE: cutting stubs on underbrush low enough to prevent trip hazard and injuries.

So many times my guys have left a mine field of sharp pointed stubs. They hide amongst the cut underbrush and when you go to drag it all back to the chipper, stubs trip you and then you fall on the Punji-sticks. This is particularly a problem when you are using brush cutters to hack your way through dense weed tree saplings.

View attachment 1024410

 

[fields_mj]

It is equally arguable that the battery operated saw was able to restart (once removed from the chaps) because it was so easy to stop that it never got fully blocked.

Battery operated saws do indeed have more "torque" at low speeds, because a gas saw simply doesn't engage at lower speeds. The gas saws do have considerably higher horsepower, and they don't get weaker with every passing minute.

If you wish to compare torque on the chainsaws, just see which saw gets stopped in a cut quicker and under the least feed pressure. When you pull against the bucking spikes, and dig in, that's when horsepower and torque are displayed. Batteries just don't have that kind of power. ...Yet.

Let me preface this by saying that in no way do I think that even a really cheap pair of chaps would have a problem stopping the most powerful battery powered saw on the market.

That said, at VERY low rpm or even NO rpm, like what was shown in wrangle star's vid, the battery power saws have a LOT more torque than their gas counterparts. Electric motors essentially have a constant torque meaning that their torque at 2 rpm is close to, if not the same as the torque at 1700 or 3400 rpm. Their torque is the result of the magnetic pull in the motor. A gas powered saw, by contrast has almost NO torque at extremely low RPM. Set your bar on a log, push down hard, and then squeeze the throttle. You can push down hard enough to immediately bog the gas saw down and keep it from starting to cut. Spool the saw up just a little, and it quickly becomes another story. Repeat the process with an electric saw, even a small one, and you'll find that the electric saw is more difficult to stall at the start of the cut.

Again, I don't think this has any practical relevance to chaps and chainsaws. The fact that it stops the saw to begin with, even with the trigger fully depressed, means that they work just fine. The fact that you can pick it up, and release the trigger, and squeeze it again, and the chain will start to move some (all be it at a lower speed) has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the chaps.

Just my 2 bits,
Mark

 

[pdqdl]

I'll guarantee that any 50cc pro saw (or bigger) has more torque on the start than any battery operated saw. Even a slipping clutch coupled to a powerful engine has plenty of startup torque.

Well... Not so much if the clutch is smoking hot from overloading it. Hot brakes and hot clutches don't hold so well.

 

[HansFranz]

That said, at VERY low rpm or even NO rpm, like what was shown in wrangle star's vid, the battery power saws have a LOT more torque than their gas counterparts. Electric motors essentially have a constant torque meaning that their torque at 2 rpm is close to, if not the same as the torque at 1700 or 3400 rpm.

Are the electric motors in chainsaws so-called "universal" motors? If so, I think that the more you load/brake them, the more current they draw and the more power/torque they output, unlike AC induction motors... not sure what kind of motors they use in DC outdoor equipment...

Universal motors and their voodoo power ratings are how we get horseshit like routers and shop vacs advertised to (supposedly) put out 3.25+ horsepower on 120VAC...even if the motor was 100% efficient (it's not -- not even close), it would require 20A of current at 120V to get 3.25 horsepower, and the motor would very likely burn up in about half a second it you put that much current through it...anyway...off-topic again...

 

[sean donato]

Don't know specifically what motors are in them, but I can about guarantee they are regulated to x amount of amps before the esc shuts them down. Inadvertently done it a few times with my little dewalt, stalls, squeals then shuts down.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Anything brushless will have multiphase AC motors, run by variable frequency drives. Just because the battery supplies DC power, doesn't mean the motor is DC.

 

[SteveSr]

Are the electric motors in chainsaws so-called "universal" motors? If so, I think that the more you load/brake them, the more current they draw and the more power/torque they output, unlike AC induction motors... not sure what kind of motors they use in DC outdoor equipment...

Universal motors and their voodoo power ratings are how we get horseshit like routers and shop vacs advertised to (supposedly) put out 3.25+ horsepower on 120VAC...even if the motor was 100% efficient (it's not -- not even close), it would require 20A of current at 120V to get 3.25 horsepower, and the motor would very likely burn up in about half a second it you put that much current through it...anyway...off-topic again...

The plugin electric saws are definitely universal motors and have maximum torque at minimum speed. They were also likely gear reduced (increasing the torque) and had no torque limiting except the house circuit breaker.

The early battery powered saws likely also didn't have any torque limiting and very likely could cut through a pair of chaps. Most of these were cheap (Big Box) imports that were built to a price point.

As the electric saw motors and batteries have been getting stronger and the big chainsaw players have been getting into the market they have realized that in order to sell product that they had to be compatible with the current PPE for gas powered saws. To do this they had to incorporate torque limiting to their saw's motors. So now we are seeing this on the major chainsaw manufacturers.

In fact, the USFS recently issued a directive allowing battery operated chainsaws. This is a reversal from an earlier USFS policy prohibiting such saws. However, they are now RECOMMENDING 9-layer chaps instead of the previous 7 layer variety.

 

[Dennisthemenace]

I didn't see any negative comments about the bloke who started this thread, though his enquiry about self starting saws perhaps raised a few raised eyebrows! He should push on though, there are encyclopaedias worth of info here for anyone even mildly interested in saws and equipment for handling timber.
Speaking of nativity, what exactly is a troll lol?

 

[sean donato]

I didn't see any negative comments about the bloke who started this thread, though his enquiry about self starting saws perhaps raised a few raised eyebrows! He should push on though, there are encyclopaedias worth of info here for anyone even mildly interested in saws and equipment for handling timber.
Speaking of nativity, what exactly is a troll lol?

Someone who post questions with no intention of listening to the answer, they also like to provoke people, have their mind made up no matter what, and are asking for validation of their thoughts which may be dangerous or just stupid ect...

 

[sean donato]

I really don't think the op was being a troll.

 

[OM617YOTA]

The negative comments got 86'd by the mods.

I have to admit, if one comment was enough to make the guy go somewhere else, he's going to have an awful rough time on the internet.