file guide "clamp on bar type"

[Vman]

i wanna get a clamp-on style file guide, i figure it will be better than doing it by hand. am i right? any suggestions as to which one to get? is that cheap electric grinder any good that u see on ebay?
thanks
(i currently sharpen by hand, occasionally use the dremel with the saw chain sharpening attachment)

 

[NWCS]

i recently sharpened up a chain with one of those oregon clamp on file guides.
wanted to fix the mix of diffrent angles on my chain, then i tried to go over it with a hand file and guide, every tooth filed too low, half of them the file wouldnt even cut! just slid across it like a glass rod.. tried another file right out of the box.. same thing! just useless as im concerned. going to try modding the clamp on guide so a hand file guide fits in it, then the darn thing wont file too low/high! probly wont work but im sure going to try it.

those $50 ebay grinders may make do if you baby it like it was about to break in half (cause it is) i would go for an Oregon bench grinder if you want it to last any amount of time. when i screw up a chain, i just sent it home with a friend that has access to an oregon bench grinder.. does a pretty good job for a round grind. general rule.. if its under $400, its probly a round grinder, not square.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Use a file guide. A good one is pictured in the upper right of the attached photo.
It holds the file and slides across the top of the cutter and depth gauge to give an exact sharpening.
If you can't file with this tool, you should take your chains in for service.

 

[Ax-man]

What seems to be the problem with hand sharpening?? Takes practice to get good at it. If you can get more proficient at hand sharpening, you might be more satisfied with the results than you would using a clamp on guide filing system.

I recently bought one from our sponsor Bailey's here on the site, it wasn't that I needed one it was because we have had discussions about this before file guides verses hand filing. I had to find out if there was really a difference, I'll save my comments for later.

The clamp on file guide I got from Bailey's was basically a good tool and was pleased, but not impressed with the results. But for a beginner wanting to learn the basics, then go on to hone hand filing skills, the guide from Bailey's would serve that purpose.

They all look the same to me, but I guess there might be some that are better than others.

Larry

 

[Pacific]

I have the oregon file holders as Mike posted they work good I have one for 7/32s and 3/16s for the 46 and 260.

A good bench vise helps sharpening because you can clamp the bar so it holds it firm and you can use both hands on the file guide. When ever I have to sharpen in the field I try find a comfortable height log and straddle the log and lay over the saw.

Those clamp on bar file guides are JUNK throw them away. I have always been told by people in the industry say if you can't sharpen the chain free hand you shouldn't own a saw. I always laugh when people say oh we have a extra loop of sharp chain that we can put on when the one gets dull

A chain will say sharp longer if you don't use the saw as a trenching machine in the dirt the saw isn't a Ditch Witch. It drives me nuts when people rock a chain and keep trying to cut with it then say how come the bar has dark spots.

I was working with a guy doing some pruning I seen he was fighting to get through the wood. I said to him give me the ???? thing sure enough the chain was dull as a butter knife it took me about 10 mins to get the chain tuned up. Gave him back the saw he said wow it cuts better

When I first learned how to use a chainsaw I had fallers and excavation guys show me how to sharpen the chain properly then I practiced from there I was about 15 yrs old then. I did ruin a few chains but I learned after 12 or so years of working with saws I have no problems sharpening.

What you need is some one that knows how to sharpen correctly show you then you can practice from there.

 

[Vman]

i do use the file guide that Mike Maas has pictured above (upper right pic). i am ok with the 30 deg angle, but feel i am not great holding the 80 deg angle...is there a trick to it? or am i just worried too much? my chains do come out sharp, just want to get consisitency....maybe i do get it and don't realize it?
once in a while when topping off a stump, i hit a rock that actually grew into the tree stump and the chain turns to crap...other than that, i don't get the chain in the dirt or other junk.....one rock in a stump ruins the time for me, not to mention the four letter words..LOL when i do hit a rock, i know it immediately and back off the saw, but it only takes the initial bump to waste the sharp cutters.
i welcome any advice or tricks!
thanks again!

 

[tony marks]

i sometimes use the clamp file guide ,to kinda straiten a chain out. for everyday i just free file ,or mabe use the roller guide. if used rite ,they work fine. just not necessary ,
most of the time. ive got an stigmatism ,which thows me off free filing. so yes they got their place. the other option for me is taking them in ,but i dont like to pay for it. even tho ive found an shop that does a good job.. around here just randomly taking them to an shop ,can result in in , a real poor job.

 

[scottr]

Chain

Vman , you have not told us what chain you are sharpening . Have you ever looked at your chain with a magnifing glass after using the file jig to see the cutting edge ?

 

[jokers]

If you use a guide like Mike has pictured, the 80° sideplate angle(assuming semi-chisel) is automatic since sideplate angle is derived from the radius of the file and how low you hold it relative to the topplate. The topplate's inside angle, or how blunt or sharp the topplate is, is also determined by how high the file is held against the tooth. Too high and the topplate, and more importantly, the working corner is blunt. Too low and the topplate is too sharp and weak. The proper file to tooth relationship is to have roughly 1/5 the file diameter protrude above the topplate when the file is held against the sideplate.

Remember that 95% of the cutting is done by the working corner and focus your efforts on getting it right. In a perfect world, all of the other angles and lengths will be proper if the working corner is right. In the real world, the other angles are far less significant than the working corner.

Don`t forget to clean the gullets and adjust the rakers according to their respective teeth.

When used properly, there is nothing more precise than a good quality clamp on file guide, not even a grinder. Unfortunately the only two clamp ons that are any good in my opinion are the Granberg and the Oregon. Of course to be used properly a guide needs to be set up properly, and just like a grinder, it will need to be used with consistant pressure in every direction and the file needs to be kept clean and sharp in the same way that you would dress a grinder's wheel.

Properly hand filed chains are sharper and more efficient than ground chains. There is however no magic bullet for chain sharpness, you have to learn to do it right, no matter what method you choose.

Russ

 

[Molecule]

A local Stihl dealer has a Stihl-brand clamp-on -- which sells, so he says, for $300.00+. I can't imagine it ...

The 050 gauge Husky file guide pictured above does the trick for me. Lowes sells then with a file and handle for ?-$7 I think. The rollers hold the file up to set the correct angle for the sideplate hook. It leaves the top of the chisel completely open to view when sharpening, giving better overall control, than the top cover file guide by Oregon, (a) because it blocks the view, and (b) it can twist during a stroke. Someone should make a hard plastic "cutter length gauge," to quickly check that cutter lengths are equal to 0.01" after sharpening--until then you'll need a run a small caliper over the cutters to check the lengths ... and file down the worst of the longer ones.

You just need to take care to be consistent with the top angle, side angle and cutter length. For example, it's not that the top angle is exactly 30°, or 35° or 25° or whatever. It's that all the cutters are filed the same way.

 

[jokers]

Someone should make a hard plastic "cutter length gauge," to quickly check that cutter lengths are equal to 0.01" after sharpening--until then you'll need a run a small caliper over the cutters to check the lengths ... and file down the worst of the longer ones.

Would the average person be able to read a rule measuring 1/100 of an inch? How bold would the index marks be? Obviously less than 1/200 if .01" is the equality standard or you would have a rule with no visible marks, it would be one continuous succession of indices.

Measuring with a caliper is also difficult if the back of the tooth is not square or if the sideplate angle is somewhat different between sides which is very common, especially on a grinder. It's very difficult to accurately get a caliper on the thin leading edge of the working corner.

A better way that requires no additional equipment is to fold a chain hanging in one hand and compare tooth lengths by holding them sideplate to sideplate.

Russ

 

[Mange]

A local Stihl dealer has a Stihl-brand clamp-on -- which sells, so he says, for $300.00+. I can't imagine it ...

The 050 gauge Husky file guide pictured above does the trick for me. Lowes sells then with a file and handle for ?-$7 I think. The rollers hold the file up to set the correct angle for the sideplate hook. It leaves the top of the chisel completely open to view when sharpening, giving better overall control, than the top cover file guide by Oregon, (a) because it blocks the view, and (b) it can twist during a stroke. Someone should make a hard plastic "cutter length gauge," to quickly check that cutter lengths are equal to 0.01" after sharpening--until then you'll need a run a small caliper over the cutters to check the lengths ... and file down the worst of the longer ones.

You just need to take care to be consistent with the top angle, side angle and cutter length. For example, it's not that the top angle is exactly 30°, or 35° or 25° or whatever. It's that all the cutters are filed the same way.

This is without a doubt the most sold guide here. Just take notice of what chain you use and this is not so hard to learn.

I used this a lot, and there is another with better weels, but this is good!

 

[scottr]

cutter length

Molecule , I've seen plastic calipers in harbor freight tool catalogs but it's easy to make a quick 'Go - No Go ' gauge out of plastic or wood . If my cutters are within .020" length the chain cuts well .

 

[Molecule]

0.02 is about where I have observed the chain getting rough, so I try to set them a little tighter. After I've rocked a chain, I used to file all the cutters sharp (e.g. remove the scoring on the top of the cutter), and then trim back the lengths to match. Now, what I think I'll do is leave the worst two cutters be (just filing them to length, but they're still dull), and sharpen to the rest of the chain. Might get a few more runs out of that chain that way.

As a cutter width gauge, I was thinking of something made of plastic, maybe 4" long or so, with a wedge in it, and two drop flanges to fit the tooth. It would use the principle of a differential wedge to measure. I've been using the plastic calipers too, sometimes they are a nuisance to fit in the gap, and after a while the plastic jaws will get chewed up by the points ... grrr. So, I've been on the lookout for a piece of plastic as follows, but I haven't found it yet. If the sides were marked off, on a tool with a sloping wedge say 4" long, I think one could have a tool which, with a little eyeball added, could show a change in length at around required 0.01 to 0.02"

I hadn't thought of Joker's method -- should work, but while the bar and chain are in the vice, a handy little length wedge would still be nice.

 

[andrethegiant70]

Clamp-on guides

I have to say that I was of the opinion that my chains come out good and sharp using the clamp-on style guides. I DO think that if you don't install it VERY carefully, you can really FUBAR your chain. I also think you help youself a whole lot by doing some maintenance sharpenings to KEEP it sharp rather than trying to bring the chain back from the dead.

I guess I'll have to try some freehanding.... think I'll start with junk chains, though.

 

[scottr]

Gauge

Molecule , your tooth length gauge would possibly hang up on the sharp edge of the tooth . What if you made an open end gauge that could be located on the end of the file handle so that you didn't have to pick up the gauge to check every tooth ?

 

[Vman]

thanks to everyone for the tips, ideas, and suggestions!! i printed out this thread with the valuable info. i guess i am a lil bit more "perfection oriented" now that i have a quality saw.
much appreciated,
Vinnie
any tips/suggestions on anything are more than welcome..thanks!!

 

[Douglas]

Thanks for all the information, I am still learning to use a file properly and will probably be learning ten years from now. I purchased an Oregon clamp on file for my Husky 350 but find it does not attach as directed over the chain as the instructions direct. It still seems to work but the hand file guide also made by Oregon is for me far easier and quicker to use. One of the contributors mentioned his eyesight and I must agree with this gent. As one gets older the eyes are not as good and sharpening becomes more difficult. I find it a help to mark the first tooth sharpened with a bit of Tipex or paint and generally I just give each tooth two swipes of the chain. My technique is crude but I do not run more than a couple of tanks without sharpening. It seems to work but no doubt you guys would quickly put me right. Thanks for the 'bumpf'.
Regards Doug

 

[046]

took me 2 years of trying to hand sharpen, before I figured it out. Here's what works for me, your milage may veri:

1. use a quality file like stihl, correctly sized to chain.
2. find a file clamp you like. can't use oregon type, hides what I'm filing. Prefer old homelite clamp, but hard to find.
3. got to see what you are filing. if you need glasses, use em. prefer using jewler's light.
4. file exact angles by watching file cut. stihl chains have a engraved angle. usually takes 2-3 strokes per teeth, file evenly on all teeth.
5. clamp bar to vise and take all slack out of chain. chain should move without too much drag. this holds chain steady so you can repeat angle for all teeth.
6. file all teeth one direction, then unclamp bar. flip to other side and repeat. if you try to do both sides at the same time, it will be much harder to be consistant.

this method produces a sharp chain. better than grinding because you will not lose temper of chain and less metal is removed.

 

[Ax-man]

Can I add a little more to this, if your bar rails are a little wide and the tooth your filing moves I try to find a way to keep it in place by holding the chain with one hand or using my thumb. This means you have to file with one hand , prefer to file with two. It is important to keep up on the bar maintenance along with keeping the chain sharp. This is where grinders have got the edge, they can clamp those drivers and hold them in place.

Larry