Firewood frustration...

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thombat4

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Came across this ad in craigslist...unfortunately unless you know a good honest seller, there's not much you can do about it outside of scrounging it up yourself.:dizzy:

The ad reads as follows:
Re: I have been buying firewood all winter long anywhere from $230.00 a cord to $250.00 a cord and THEN I start seeing ads for March Specials on firewood for a lot cheaper! Why not sell it at the same lower price all winter long when people really need to save the money!!!??? Did the trees go on sale this month or what?!!!
 
I don't know what good the ad is going to do.

I guess it's kind of like buying Christmas decorations before Christmas or buying them after Christmas.
 
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Has nothing to do with honest sellers. It's called supply and demand and the free market setting the prices.

Apparently this is a foreign concept to the craigslist poster :hmm3grin2orange:
 
I know with myself most of the wood that we cut and hauled was done when gas was almost $4 a gallon. The wood we cutand hauled the end of summer was much less as far as overhead so next years price will be lowered
 
PERHAPS, the sellers are trying to clear out the remaining firewood for the season. Some wood will go punky if it sets around too long.

I would do the same. Heck, I sell green wood at a discount to get money in my hands NOW. Let them season it and save.

December/Jan/Feb are pretty cold. If the buyers haven't got the wood bought by then, let them pay more since they didn't plan ahead. I don't want to be driving/working in the worst weather of the year....
 
PERHAPS, the sellers are trying to clear out the remaining firewood for the season. Some wood will go punky if it sets around too long.

I would do the same. Heck, I sell green wood at a discount to get money in my hands NOW. Let them season it and save.

December/Jan/Feb are pretty cold. If the buyers haven't got the wood bought by then, let them pay more since they didn't plan ahead. I don't want to be driving/working in the worst weather of the year....


Good points!
 
PERHAPS, the sellers are trying to clear out the remaining firewood for the season. Some wood will go punky if it sets around too long.

I would do the same. Heck, I sell green wood at a discount to get money in my hands NOW. Let them season it and save.

December/Jan/Feb are pretty cold. If the buyers haven't got the wood bought by then, let them pay more since they didn't plan ahead. I don't want to be driving/working in the worst weather of the year....

Yep, they are clearing out inventory. The person complaining is not smart enough to realize they should buy now so they are prepared for next season. They should also realize this happens every.

It truly does amaze me how many people do not know how to plan ahead.

Oh, and rep for you freemind:yourock:
 
Has nothing to do with honest sellers. It's called supply and demand and the free market setting the prices.

Apparently this is a foreign concept to the craigslist poster :hmm3grin2orange:

+1

I recall last December not even being able to buy a load of logs around here. I had heard that the going rate at that time was $110.00 per cord if you could find someone to bring it. Most of the wood was going to the pulp mill then, and gas and oil prices were in the stratosphere. Oil is at $2.10 here now and wood is not moving so far. I have some advertised on Craig's list for $175.00 per cord, all hardwood, but no takers so far. Last January I was getting $300.00 per cord. Seems like folks are slipping back into the old procrastination routine again now that fuel costs are down. Wood cost are
definitely tied to the oil cost around here, as Nuzzy said, supply and demand.

Maplemeister: :cheers:
 
I know up here the price has dropped because of two things, mills stopped buying wood, and everyone that is unemployed or employed but working less hours and has a chainsaw and needs spare cash is cutting firewood. Its too bad for the full timers that depend on that to break even but it is what it is. If you sell a good product you shouldn't have to really worry about it(all my customers have already contacted me for next years wood and its only march :clap:)
 
The wood we cutand hauled the end of summer was much less as far as overhead so next years price will be lowered

Sign I saw in the office of a sucessful factory this fall that you should always remember:

"Price is not related to cost."

Yes, you need to cover your business expenses or you won't be in business to long. But sometimes that means you sell something for less then the cost of production to get the cash in your hand so you can put it towards something that will give you a higher rate of return.

It also means if you're always pricing yourself at cost + fixed percentage, you're probably not in a good marketing position and/or you're always struggling because you never make more then that little profit limit you set for yourself.

I'd price fuelwood in relation to alternatives -- fuel oil or propane. Traditionally firewood does sell at a large discount compared to fuel oil in my area, even after you adjust for lower efficiency. Call that the convenience discount for having to haul the wood in and tend the fire instead of turning up the thermostat.

But if the cost of oil goes up by 50%...you shouldn't keep your prices the same just because you cut the wood when it was less expensive. Bump the price up by 50% and see if you sell it, if you can't come down to maybe a 40% increase -- which makes it an even better value then before.

But don't leave money sitting on the table just because your expenses were lower!

===============
Let's put some numbers here:

Right now No. 2 Home Heating Oil sells for $2.46/gallon in my area.
It has 138,800 BTUs in a gallon, but is burned on average at 83% efficiency so you get 115,204 BTUs of useable heat. 115,204 / 2.46 = 46,830 BTUs per dollar

A cord of seasoned White Oak has 27 Million BTUs, but I'll guess the average efficiency is around 50%. That's 13,500,000 useable BTUs. 13,500,000 / 46,830 = $288 per cord as a price where both oil and wood cost the same to heat your home.

At the $225 price point that seems the sweet point looking at ads around here, you're still looking at a discount of 22% less then oil costs -- that's savings in what the person gets in exchange for less convenience then just turning up the thermostat.

Back last January with oil around $3.39, that cord of oak was worth $397. Whack 25% off to adjust for wood being less desirable then oil to most people, that's still $300. I didn't see many people asking that much, it was still mostly in the $225-250 range.

But what's wrong with trying to sell a product based on what the market will bear? Yep, a cord of the best stuff will cost you $300. But it saves you from spending $400 -- that'll leave you a $100 in your pocket.

That's something most businesses, industries, and trades understand well. Farmers, and woodcutters are like them, for some reason seem to like to always do cost + margin -- if they can produce something for less, they default to selling it for less...even when the public is willing and able to pay more. That's a big reason they stay behind the economic 8 ball as an industry...they're always cutting each others and their own throats over how they price their products.
 
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In the winter time i will up my prices on good seasoned wood just cause as pointed out before supply and demand if the same people wanted to buy green wood from me in the summer or spring then it would cost them less. period. im honest and dont feel bad about asking 200 a cord in the winter time.:cheers:
 
yep ,all good points on supply and demand but another thing to consider is the wood being sold now i n the year is usually green and hence worth less money
 
Finally warming up

Some of my repeat customers are buying me out ,and stocking up,either afraid prices will rise,or just plain storing nutz for next winter.This was my first year selling,and am about out ,when i thought i would have alot more left over.Sold 34 cord this year ,with about 5 left,and reserved enough for personal needs to get me through till 2012.I figured i made minimal $$s,but the wood was free and delivered{about 10 cases of Budlight} but was the hardest work i have ever done or loved.Gonna take a couple of years off,maybe one.I might have him dump on me late fall,as to work it in the cooler temps,cause that cant be healthy slipitin and tossin @90+ degrees out.Had help just nearly passin out on me.Lost 20# in the deal too.I never thought i wood sell 1/2 of what i wood,but thats life.:greenchainsaw:
 
yeah im lucky on my wood supply i got unlimited supply of alder blowdowns all free to me. so its all profit.
 
Let's put some numbers here:

Ah, let me clarify something, since you spent so long posting your words.
When I started this firewood business, I did a BUNCH of penciling of numbers. Many cost had to be figured like:
Fuel costs (saws, truck, splitter, ect.)
wood costs
repairs
perishable tools like chains, files, and such.
Tires, both unexpected repairs, and replacements from being worn out.
New equiptment costs
unthought of/ unexpected misc. expenses
LABOR

Just a few costs to note. Most of my wood is free, other than my own expense to get it. Some will cost for the trucking, but not much of it. My labor is going to be paid too. I don't work for free.

I know generally how much my expenses are in every cord, all costs considered. For the repairs, tires, ect., that money is held in a reserve. Saved.

I won't sell for less than the price I came up with (200 per cord). I don't care if alternatives are cheap, or though the roof. People can depend on my price being constant all season long, unless gas would take a large hike in price. The don't like the price, call the gas man, I don't care. I will burn the wood myself, or sell it off in campfire bundles and make twice the money. I am not going to lose money either way.

Raising and lowering prices with alternative fuel prices will tick your customers off. Either they will call someone else, OR they will just not hassel with burning wood, and go with alternative heat sources. I don't care WHAT the "market will bear". I am selling firewood, not software. I am in it to make money, not friends. I am going to get paid fairly, or I won't do it.

Just my humble opinion....
 
Raising and lowering prices with alternative fuel prices will tick your customers off.

I agree completely.

But at the beginning of each season I think it's fair to look at what alternatives are and set your prices accordingly. I think it's also fair if you do a mid-season adjustment for new customers if there is a sudden spike in prices that lead to them calling. There may be a minimum price you have, and that's fine. You may also be competeting against other people who sell for less and force you to accept less then a value based on alternatives.

I still stand by saying you should set prices based on what the market will bear when it's higher then what your minimum acceptable profit is -- it's a strong trait in farming and similiar occupations that people set a price by examining their costs and adding a little to it. Often it forces others to compete on that lower price level. I don't think that's the best model, since often they let customers leave money on the table the customer would've been happy paying since it was still a bargain to them. Don't feel guilty about enjoying a good profit.
 
I agree completely.

But at the beginning of each season I think it's fair to look at what alternatives are and set your prices accordingly. I think it's also fair if you do a mid-season adjustment for new customers if there is a sudden spike in prices that lead to them calling. There may be a minimum price you have, and that's fine. You may also be competeting against other people who sell for less and force you to accept less then a value based on alternatives.

I still stand by saying you should set prices based on what the market will bear when it's higher then what your minimum acceptable profit is -- it's a strong trait in farming and similiar occupations that people set a price by examining their costs and adding a little to it. Often it forces others to compete on that lower price level. I don't think that's the best model, since often they let customers leave money on the table the customer would've been happy paying since it was still a bargain to them. Don't feel guilty about enjoying a good profit.


Since I work on a farm, lets get that out of the way. We don't get to "set" a price on commodities. We may contract, and sell that way. We may just decide to sell something for the going price. But we definately HAVE to sell for more than input costs, or the farm sinks into bankrupcy. If farmers COULD set a price, you wouldn't see the market fluctuations you see today.

Back to woodsales, I am not going to compete, if that means I lose just ONE meesly dollar. NOR will I sell for a high price, just because I can. I am selling firewood, for a price I can live with. Now, that isn't to say, I would not increase prices, for whatever reasons. I just won't do it because someone else is selling for 100 bucks more a cord.

ProPAIN fluctuates with crude prices, even though it is not a product of crude. I belive what that industry is doing is wrong. I am a man of morals and ethics, where corporations and industries, semm to lack those qualities. What I am telling you, IMO, this boils down to morals and ethics. I belive in profit as much as anyone. How I arrive at those profits, is a different matter. I will not lower myself to become, that which we have become to hate.


An honest days work, for an honest day's pay. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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