Fliplines.. Steel vs Rope

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DFD34

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I have used a 16 strand flipline for a long long time. It is 12 feet long and has a aluminum locking snap at he end. Another climber at the company that I work at uses a steel core flipline with the locking snap that is covered by rope. I would like to get one but I always here the comment, "What if you get in a situation that requires you to cut your flipline and you can't." What do you all think??? Any comment would be great. Thanks in advance.:cheers:
 
I climb with steelcores all the time, they are better than rope because it takes more to sever them than a rope, but you can cut through them with an 020, done it. I do not like aluminum for biners, never seen an aluminum rope snap. Never been in a situation where I had to cut my steelcore but I have knicked steelcores a couple of times with my saw, glad it wasn't just a rope. Hope that helps you out, there have been many talks about fliplines here, check out the search option.
 
When was the last time you allowed yourself to get into a situation where you needed to cut your rope while in a tree? 20 years climbing and I've never had to cut my rope yet.

Regardless, a rope lanyard or steelcore lanyard is a personal choice. Both are safe when used properly and both can fail if misused or abused. If most of your climbing is running up and down conifers, you might prefer a steelcore for easier flipping. If you work a lot of spreading canopies on oaks or similar, you may find the rope lanyard more versatile.

This is an old argument typically argued by uninformed climbers who wish to limit themselves by closing down their options. I won't tell you that one is better than the other. Try both and pick what works best for you.
 
i use a steel cord flipline. i also keep a 16 strand with me for when i need to redirect. i actually do most of my climbing wioth the cord flip. i use the strand when cutting. it worksfor me. i might not have given you any insight on your question, i don't move up the tree without being bucked in.
 
Both are great choices. I used to use 2 lanyrds. I had a rope one for pruning and small stuff and then I had a steel core for climbing with the crane and large removals. I use my steel core now for everything. I find its weight easier to throw around a spar or large leader.

But like evryone here is saying you have to pick which one you like. You wouldnt go out and buy a saddle without trying it on would you?
 
clearance:

Snap-AlumBlue.jpg


Question for you: when cutting with a chain saw in a tree, how many tie-ins do you use?

also, what's the matter with aluminum for life support? A 26kn biner provides a 26-1 SWL ratio based on average body weight...that's plenty for me....Heck, we use scads of aluminum biners for light rigging like speedlining conifer limbs.
 
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Generally tied in once, with a steelcore. The work law states climbers shall use a steelcore to cut, if not steelcore then two attachments. I always climb to the top, cutting as I go up, top it and come back down. If I have to cut while I am rappeling down then I use my steelcore as well. Thats a pretty fancy looking rope snap, should be hanging on a Christmas tree, thanks for showing it.
 
cushdog...never heard of steel cord...I think you mean steel-core...

DFD, I use a ~20 foot rope lanyard for pruning. It is great for climbing as either it or your lifeline to be installed overhead. For removals, I've always preferred steel core....easier to flip up, like the stiffness...and added security, however false, as a chainsaw could cut through the steel core in a flash. Remember, TITS.....!!!

"Tie in twice, stupid!!"
 
clearance, that's the law in BC, but most of the rest of the world requires 2 tie-ins.....you're risking your life cutting with only a steel core lanyard...you just said yourself you cut through one once.....personally, i've climbed over 30 years and only cut mine badly once, back in the 70's...was near the ground, but didn't go all the way through. In recent years, I can't remember the last time I even nicked my flip line. TITS!!!
 
PB thank you for your concern. That is the law here, people have fallen out of trees here when they were freeclimbing or descended from a weak branch. Just not practical to always tie in twice and you cannot cut a steelcore in a "flash" with an 020. Yes you can cut them, just not too likely when you are looking at it. Are you tied in twice when you are blocking down a big fir? If so what, with two steelcores? I liked tying in with my rope and using my steelcore when I was doing utility, using a pole pruner with two or three extensions to bust off or cut stuff hanging over the line or in another tree. Just felt more comfortable, more control.
 
Jim, the steelcore around power has come up here before, it is in search. Many who are not trained to climb around power offered up opinions, they think plain rope does not conduct! If you are that close, you are real close, probably violating safe limits of approach.
 
Boy, clearance, you are one opinionated know it all......I repeat, TITS, it is the law! Well, ANSI law anyhow. Everyplace but BC, and it should be there as well.

When chunking down a spar, yes, I always have a choked lifeline, with flipline a bit lower. On the way up a removal, I'll usually set an overhead lifeline, not always though. If not, it'll be set similarly to my flipline.

By the way, maybe not an 020, but I gaurantee you my 335 could decimate a steelcore flip line in a fraction of a second.

You, young fella, relatively speaking, have a lot to learn.....
 
PB, no need to be condescending, thanks for saying I'm young, anyways I really like tits, just not what you are talking about. "Know it all", hey I am not telling you what to do, climb however you want. You could learn something about saws and get a ms200 though, even I know that and I am a Husky guy. Yes, I do have a lot to learn about many things, I'm sure. However I was taught how to climb by some very experienced men, some of the most respected utility guys in B.C.. But I guess they have a lot to learn as well, from you, now who is the know it all?
 
I'm starting to get the idea that BC is a very small place. At least as far as line clearance goes.
One bad part of all the utility regs is this: who made the regs? BC hydro? for what reason? safety or production? I've worked with a lot of power companies in my time. I can honestly say that the regs are written to allow for a moderate amount of safety, with a larger emphasis on production. After all, how long does it take to maintain a second tie in point? just about 1/2 a second longer than a freefall to the ground, imo.
-Ralph
 
i don't get it... when going up a removal, you've got your flipline plus you're tied in to an overhead limb... or are you using two flips? I use two flips if i've got to go over limbs, but if i'm removing the limbs as i go up i've just got one...my boss always just has one even when he's going over limbs...i defineltly didn't learn my safety from him!
 
Ralph, it is understandable for you to think that way after hearing me talk about utility here. You know, climbing with spurs, one handing, steelcores around power, one tie in. One handing is the only thing out of the four that is prohibited (but always done) B.C. is a huge place, many thousands of miles of transmission and distribution lines. The regs. about climbing are made by the Workers Compensation Board of B.C., the regs. about climbing around power are by them as well. It is the utility, B.C. Hydro that authorizes people to work on thier system. You have to have a trade certificate issued by the Province and be authorized by Hydro. B.C. Hydro can revoke or authorize your ticket. This training is six weeks in class and field over two years and 1200 hours of supervised work in close proximety to powerlines. I haven't heard of other places were there is this much training to work around power. In spite of these pratices you deem to be unsafe no one has been killed doing utility here for many years, unlike some states. This unfortunate man who died was a groundsman, not a climber. The Compensation rules are on the net, not hard to find, I think worksafe bc should do it. In regards to safety vs. production, most utility work here is contract, low bid gets it. That probably tells you what you need to know, I don't agree with it myself. At the end of the day, Hydro, like any big corparation will circle the wagons and cover their own ass if something bad happens. There are a lot of inspections and trade retesting happens every two years, they really make an effort to have everyone work safe. But when low bid takes it....people are pushed, of course. Hope this helps you.
 
I have a 200T, clearance...but my 335's beat it, are lighter, more maneuverable,and I like them better. I also sometime do spurless removals.....got your goat yet?
 
Clearance, utility work in BC is no different than the utilities I've worked for, in the 6 states I've run crews and jobs. You have to have the same training, LCTT, to break the min clearance + 10 ft rule. like there, LCTT training allows any climber to approach within min clearances. Only here, you have a few more rules to follow. I maintain the training and records upkeep on my own personal small operation here, just so I don't have to mess around with the local line boys. Too many times they left the wires intact, but destroyed everything else. makes me look bad by association, ya know?
One thing holds true @ 99% of the time here, any really good climber worth his salt never stays at LC any longer than he has to, once his or her understanding of proper tree care, and general attitude reach a certian level, they seek a place where higher skills and proper tree care is rewarded with great money and respect. thats 2 things that are usually lacking at the big low cost tree cutting services. How well I know low bid! I used to bid contracts for a larger 26 state company.

On a side note, I used to (years ago when I thought I knew everything about trees) have to go out and clear trees back from the wires for private tree companies to finish. I used to enjoy removing every high tie in point, and crotch to rope from. I though that would make their job harder, because it would have to me then. That all stopped when I watched real tree guys (back then) work like I had done nothing out of the ordinary. As I grew up, I realized I didn't hate them for being good, or for being better than me, I really hated myself for not being better than I was. A problem I have since rectified.
Maybe you will too someday?
-Ralph
 
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