Fliplines.. Steel vs Rope
- Thread starter DFD34
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xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have been in situations where if I couldnt cut my saw lanyard I would of had to cut my steel core.
You can saw thru a propane tank
what makes u think u cant saw thru a little wire holding your life up there?:monkey:
You can saw thru a propane tank
what makes u think u cant saw thru a little wire holding your life up there?:monkey:Bermie
Addicted to ArboristSite
Here's my two cents worth:DFD34 said:I would like to get one but I always here the comment, "What if you get in a situation that requires you to cut your flipline and you can't." What do you all think??? Any comment would be great. Thanks in advance.
I have said this before on another post, when using a steelcore, always have somewhere in the attachment/adjustment system that is rope or a nylon strop so you can cut yourself or be cut out in an emergency. I use a piece of prussik cord with a micro pulley as the adjuster on my steelcore. I have also used someone else's that had a petzl microcender attached with a 5' nylon strap to the clip on the side. Either way, it could be cut easily with a knife (that you always have with you in your first aid kit on your belt!?)
As for attachment while in the tree, for pruning, regular main climbing line XTC plus, with a 12' rope lanyard for work positioning. When dismantling, wire core at the top closest to the saw, attached to side D's, backed up with main climbing line below attached to centre of harness. That way there is always a system ready as a backup should the worst happen and the wirecore get cut, or you need to be lowered out to the tree. Also having the climbing line in there prevents an uncontrolled slide to the bargain basement if you gaff out! It has happened to me, luckily I was only about 10' up, chogging my way down a casuarina (bark comes off in sheets on older trees) I was tired, I stood up too straight on my spikes, out they came and down I went, all the way to the bottom! my steelcore was on the side D's and did not grip at all, no harm done but a red face a few grazes and will always have a backup in the future, lesson learned.
darkstar
ArboristSite Guru
clear view
YO clearence ,while you are thinking ,why dont you go ask your mama for her opinion?????:jawdrop: Dark
YO clearence ,while you are thinking ,why dont you go ask your mama for her opinion?????:jawdrop: Dark
notahacker
ArboristSite Operative
:sword: Good point.skwerl said:
I only use a steel-core lanyard when needed. I feel it is necessary when chunking or blocking out large wood. Large to me (a 145 pounder at 5'-8") is cutting into wood 20" to 28" in diameter with my MS460. I know that my MS460 could cut right through a steel-core lanyard, if the situation was right. So, in reality I use it for that situation I might knick my lanyard accidently.
Have I ever knicked my lanyard before? No. Do I take precautions and think ahead not to cut my lanyard? Yes. Maybe it is piece of mind for those who use it often? :angel:
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ralph- thought about what you said all day, making sure not to cut my steelcore. I am a C.U.A. but quit utility in July 05, bucked on a hoechuck show for a little bit and then moved to the Queen Charlottes. It was good to hear of your utility experiences, you have probably seen it all. The companies I worked for did res. and commercial work but primarily utility. Here in B.C. I think the wages are pretty much the same no matter your climbing job. You are right about utility guys getting little respect, one level above child beaters by the looks you get. My job now (windfirming) is low skill and high pay. I climb up, cut off some branches, top it and down, no powerlines, houses, cars etc.. I work 61/2 hour days, thats the most ever and come home, $275/day. If someone does utility and cares a lot about proper tree care its a conflict always, pretty hard to do it, I see your point. As far as higher skill in good res. yeah, I guess so, especially spurless, it looks pretty hard. There have been some pretty tough trees I cut down in utility as well. I miss the rush, kind of hate to say it, freeclimbing, bouncing stuff off the primary, fast cutting tops that brush the primary, blowing off big tops to see if I could do it, and so on. Now I never freeclimb, put my brake on when I'm not using my saw, use a split tail in case of emergencies, all my new bosses ideas. Thanks for your talk, something to continue to think about.
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
Clearance, I posted that because you remind me of me not so long ago. If anything I post inspires thought, I am very pleased.
I'm sure I've seen a lot, but most likely not all. though I've wondered sometimes....
I sometimes miss the antics you describe, guess it is a small world after all, huh?
-Ralph
I'm sure I've seen a lot, but most likely not all. though I've wondered sometimes....
I sometimes miss the antics you describe, guess it is a small world after all, huh?
-Ralph
No need for the steel flip lines unless your the careless type and affraid of falling. Stick something fancy looking in a nice color that compliments your saddle. 12 feet entirely way to long for everyday work. Shorten to 6 or 9 feet. Make another one up for the big trees at 20 feet long. Happy cutting.
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thats BOLONGA cowboy!
You rope some big logs everyday on a 16 strand and you just asking to cut your rope with your riggin line. I vee rigging lines smoke right thru a pole utilities pole strap.
You rope some big logs everyday on a 16 strand and you just asking to cut your rope with your riggin line. I vee rigging lines smoke right thru a pole utilities pole strap.
skwerl
Will Climb for food
Dunno about you, but I don't rope big logs every day. In fact I rope big logs very infrequently, perhaps a couple times per year. 99% of my 'rigging' is roping off small limbs weighing less than 100-150 lbs per cut.xtremetrees said:Thats BOLONGA cowboy!
You rope some big logs everyday on a 16 strand and you just asking to cut your rope with your riggin line. I vee rigging lines smoke right thru a pole utilities pole strap.
Back when I ran a crew as the 'big tree removal team', we utilized a crane on most jobs requiring rigging of big wood. I only rig heavy loads by rope when absolutely necessary. I'm not sure if I'd want to work with someone so unresourceful that they needed to 'rope big wood every day'.
:greenchainsaw:
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ralph thanks............................................................................. Darkstar-I was going to say the best thing about you ran down your mommas leg, but that wouldn't be nice, so lets not be talking about mommas. Ropes-I never ever rig big anything out of the tree I am in, just flirting with disaster. Big John, I can tell you never climb big trees, I do every day and a steelcore is a lot easier to flip than a rope, done it. Never had to cut my rope, ever. Xtreme explain how you came to be cutting your saw lanyard?
1I'dJak
ArboristSite Operative
in my limited experience i've only used a steel core....i like the weight of it especially using it on rough barked trees...another bonus about them is when deadwooding you can smash of clumps of dead branches and hangers with them, cuz they're heavy (mine has a snap at both ends)... and i won't bs, when i was starting i knicked my scare strap a couple of times...though i blamed it on the dog!
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
I like steel cores. I've been using a rope lanyard (11 mm velocity) for about a year. I want to go back to steelcore, there are advantages I miss.
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
Like the time that log stuck to my saw bro. If the bar hadnt bent to a 90 degree angle sence I didnt have my silky I do now thou. Id been plub stuck.
Im going to assume your all knee jerk bombers if youall dont rope logs. Is that correct. Let me guess you rope out fire wood.? You dont do trees ove house?
Sure I dont rope out big logs everyday but when I do my rigging gear lays right over my safety unless i cut a notch in the wood or groove for it to go into or and finally This is what i do put my steel core just under my rigging block, but then I'm stuck there until the weight gets off.
If you knick a steel core the covering will break because thats what the gibbs grabs onto. I had to buy a new one and i barel y nicked it.
Id further say you guys on a rope for your safety this is not the rule. More of them utility workers pole straps than anything I seen.
Im going to assume your all knee jerk bombers if youall dont rope logs. Is that correct. Let me guess you rope out fire wood.? You dont do trees ove house?
Sure I dont rope out big logs everyday but when I do my rigging gear lays right over my safety unless i cut a notch in the wood or groove for it to go into or and finally This is what i do put my steel core just under my rigging block, but then I'm stuck there until the weight gets off.
If you knick a steel core the covering will break because thats what the gibbs grabs onto. I had to buy a new one and i barel y nicked it.
Id further say you guys on a rope for your safety this is not the rule. More of them utility workers pole straps than anything I seen.
Yo clearance, what's a big tree? How would you know what I have done? I never done any redwoods. I put my share of time in removing some pretty big oaks and poplars.
My **** (notice: using the word **** as a propper noun?) doesnt get hard because I climb a tree with steel flip lines and piece of gear I own strapped to my saddle. I dont need those crutches. You may not understand now perhaps one day if you come full circle you will. Less is more.:monkey:
My **** (notice: using the word **** as a propper noun?) doesnt get hard because I climb a tree with steel flip lines and piece of gear I own strapped to my saddle. I dont need those crutches. You may not understand now perhaps one day if you come full circle you will. Less is more.:monkey:
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Big John, I have never climbed a redwood either. I often climb red cedar or sitka spruce trees that are 6' or more at the butt, the steelcore is easier to flip. I suppose oak trees have smoother bark. I have a double ended 18' and a 10' steelcore that I climb with. I don't see steelcores as a crutch, spurless guys getting a groundsman to pull them up the tree (not saying you), now that is a crutch.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
be nice...... we're all friends here.
Hey, ya know one thing that I messed up real bad in creating my rope flipline? I made the eye termination about 6" long. I went out of my way to create the thing so it would go around my waist twice, and clip to my left side, which it does perfectly to length. But, the eye is too long and I lose the last 6" of adjustability.
Also, I have found 11 mm to be too small for the micrograb adjuster. I mean, it grabs fine, but the 11 mm is just a little too small that the micrograb will slide backwards down the line, meaning it will slide down and descend under it's own weight and you have to reach down and pull it back up to your hip to clip in.
Using 13 mm (1/2") stable braid, the rope diameter was too big and required a forceful pushing or pulling to adjust the thing. I only lasted about 4 months with that crap. For whatever reason, a 1/2" steelcore, which you would assume to be the same diameter as 1/2" stable braid, handles the micrograb with precision and predictability.
As far as rope fliplines (and using a Petzl micrograb mechanical adjuster) I think the Fly, in it's 'beyond 11 mm, not quite 12 mm' diameter might be the perfect diameter for a line without a solid (steel) core. I'll try it out, but every day, every time I use the rope flipline (16 MONTHS NOW) I wish back for my dual-swivel snap ended steelcore. The reduction in weight I 'enjoy' these days is not even noticible. I'll take the extra weight of the steelcore and revel in the joy of the steelcore's excellent performance and added security. Mebbe this Summer. I still have a few other ropes to test in this facility, Fly, MK-3, I think I'll skip Blaze and Vector, and the Poison Ivy 12 mm I look forward to using as a flipline.
Hey, ya know one thing that I messed up real bad in creating my rope flipline? I made the eye termination about 6" long. I went out of my way to create the thing so it would go around my waist twice, and clip to my left side, which it does perfectly to length. But, the eye is too long and I lose the last 6" of adjustability.
Also, I have found 11 mm to be too small for the micrograb adjuster. I mean, it grabs fine, but the 11 mm is just a little too small that the micrograb will slide backwards down the line, meaning it will slide down and descend under it's own weight and you have to reach down and pull it back up to your hip to clip in.
Using 13 mm (1/2") stable braid, the rope diameter was too big and required a forceful pushing or pulling to adjust the thing. I only lasted about 4 months with that crap. For whatever reason, a 1/2" steelcore, which you would assume to be the same diameter as 1/2" stable braid, handles the micrograb with precision and predictability.
As far as rope fliplines (and using a Petzl micrograb mechanical adjuster) I think the Fly, in it's 'beyond 11 mm, not quite 12 mm' diameter might be the perfect diameter for a line without a solid (steel) core. I'll try it out, but every day, every time I use the rope flipline (16 MONTHS NOW) I wish back for my dual-swivel snap ended steelcore. The reduction in weight I 'enjoy' these days is not even noticible. I'll take the extra weight of the steelcore and revel in the joy of the steelcore's excellent performance and added security. Mebbe this Summer. I still have a few other ropes to test in this facility, Fly, MK-3, I think I'll skip Blaze and Vector, and the Poison Ivy 12 mm I look forward to using as a flipline.
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Why not shoot a line up in that tree and foot lock. I bet I could footlock up that 6 foot diameter tree quicker than you could flip that steel core line of yours. Makes sense to me. Get to top tie and have someone on the ground tie those spurs on if need be. I wouldnt have the time or patience to watch you ????? foot up that tree.
hobby climber
ArboristSite Guru
DFD34's question as I understand it was regarding out preferences between rope & steel core flip lines as well as a "cut-a-way" situation! How this thread got side tracked serves not point to the person asking the question. As some here have mentioned, both rope & steel core have there good & bad points so use both as you see fit. Another member from another post had mentioned that he used a length of Bull Rope as a flip line because its a bit stiffer & durable than regular rope but not as stiff as steel core,(best of both worlds) . He also used a rope adjuster verses a mechanical device. (something to think about). As far as the last part of DFD34's question about having to cut away a flip line to escape a bad situation...don't get yourself into that kinda situation. Learn to read the situation better...it comes with time, no biggie. If your still looking for answers regarding an emergency release situation, go under search and punch in lanyard release or cut a way or emergency release. Just keep in mind that none of these methods are approved by the industry and should be avoided by not allowing yourself to be in need of them in the first place. Be safe and keep asking questions because eventually, you'll get the right answer! HC
