Foresters: What's Your Job Really Like?

[Matt59]

Hey Everyone,

I forget how I happened upon this site a few weeks ago but I became a member due to some questions I want to ask.
I got out of the Marines last year and am in my second semester at community college. It's starting to get to that time where I have to pick a major. I've been thinking about Forestry/Forest Management.
I'm an outdoorsman and spend all the time I can in the woods and I care about conservation and managing our forests. I enjoy hard work and being outdoors. I don't care about being cold, wet, muddy, etc, I like to get dirty and feel like I did a hard day's work. Logging would be cool but there isn't much opportunity for that here in Godforsaken Suburban MD...I have thought about being an arborist or a wildland firefighter before too and they both appeal to me as well.
I really don't like being in school, I'd rather work, but I understand the importance of education and I'm on the GI Bill so I might as well take advantage of it now. I wake up every morning before school and wish I was going to work with my hands instead of sitting in class with 25 immature, undisciplined kids (have to stop myself from ranting), but tell myself I should plow through school now so I don't regret it 20 years down the road.
I know I definitely don't want to work inside or have to wear a suit and shiny shoes to work the rest of my life, so I've been thinking a lot about careers lately. I want to work outside, with my hands. I like environmental-type science but I don't want to spend my life in a lab either. I've picked up woodworking lately and am doing two carpentry classes at school, so I'm becoming aware that whatever I do for a living should involve wood, work, and being outdoors.

Anyway, I've read the basic "What does a Forester Do?" pages on the internet but I know that that information is never really accurate.
So, what's a forester's job really like? Do you enjoy it? What do you dislike about it? Would you recommend it as a career?

Thanks for the input. I've learned a lot from this site lately and I appreciate any comments and feedback.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Offhand, I can think of 3 kinds of foresters: the government kind, the logging business kind, and the utility company kind. I mostly work with the government kind (I'm a biologist). NRCS foresters work with private landowners, offering advice and plans for establishing and managing timber. State agency foresters do 2 kinds of work in my state: working with private landowners, giving advice and developing plans for tree establishment and timber management; or managing state owned conservation areas. On state lands they inventory timber tracts, develop management plans, execute timber sales, etc. They may also supervise a work crew, and be involved with both prescribed burning on state lands and helping fight wildfires.

Utility companies hire foresters to keep the rights-of-way clear of trees. They work with easements and supervise either an in-house crew or contractors that do most of the cutting. Simple enough in rural areas, a pain in the a** in urban areas. Don't work with any U.S. Forest Service foresters or timber company foresters, so I can't say much about their jobs. There's a lot more to it than that, especially all the little things, but that's kind of a big picture perspective.

As I indicated, I'm not a forester. Maybe someone who is can chime in and offer a better job description.

Good luck with the education and job search. If you're school offers S130/S190 wildland fire class, take it. With that and a pack test, you can get red carded and be eligible to fight fires with the fed's. There's also an S212 wildland fire chainsaw class (S130/190 would be a prerequisite to that). All fallers working on wildfires need to go through that class and be certified. If you're interested in pursuing forestry and have an interest in wildfires and chainsaws, those would be some good classes to get under your belt. In Missouri, they host the Midwest Wildland Fire Academy for a week or 2 each summer. They offer the above classes as well as a lot of others. Maybe there's something similar around MD.

 

[Matt59]

Thanks Natty Bumppo. I've done some searching for wildland fire jobs on usajobs.gov. Many of the ones I've looked at list prerequisites of previous fire experience or college credits in agriculture/forestry/soil conservation etc. Another reason to stay in school. My school doesn't offer those classes but I'm doing some reading on them now. If I'm reading this right, a person can get their red card without actually being hired by an agency/department? So it's kind of like individual certification or training to get yourself qualified to actually get hired?

 

[madhatte]

Fingers crossed that this turns into as interesting a thread as I think it could. We definitely have a few very different perspectives on forestry represented here.

Myself, I come from a forestry family. I grew up around foresters... the industry research kind. They're a rare breed now, but that wasn't always the case. As a youth, I wanted to be either a photographer or a pro skateboarder. It wasn't until college that I found myself interested in plants, and it wasn't until I got thrown out of my second (of three) senior years in college that I discovered that a plant nerd with no degree can't get a job doing plant nerd stuff. So, I ended up in forestry.

Turns out, I liked it. I worked for 3 years as a contractor doing inventory and survey work all over the Pacific Northwest, for both private and public agencies. The travel was awesome and watching the seasons change has always been one of may favorite parts of the work. However, the ass fell out of contracting in the late '90's and I found myself with more expenses than prospects. SO, I did a hitch in the Navy, largely to get the GI bill and finish college. That brings us to late '06.

My first job after school is the one I have now. I've been here since May '07. This is how a year in my job generally goes, starting today. This week we are planting. We'll put about 75,000 trees in the ground in a week, using a contract crew. Myself and my co-workers do the QA inspections. We also load and unload all the bagged seedlings from the truck and cooler. Next week is some training. Last year I was fortunate to get training on some inventory software. This year I will be studying Variable Probability Sampling. When I get back, we'll be doing the annual re-cert for our Red Cards. We usually see our first fire about this time of year; as it happens, that was yesterday. It was not a big deal and required no action. This is often the case until well into June.

Throughout the year I do a lot of GIS work. Not only do I make maps of sale units, roads, fires, and wetlands, but I have also done some interesting analyses using LIDAR data. These are not techniques I'm formally trained in, but rather things I have taught myself because there was something in particular I wanted to understand. Usually this kind of proactive approach pays dividends.

Summer brings fire, which is another duty in this job. We usually have a seasonal crew of 14. This year, due to budget wonkiness, probably not. Should be interesting. We get lots of small fires but only occasionally a big one. Last year's biggest was ~2000 acres of grass and woodland and took us 5 days to get contained.

Timber sales are our bread and butter. We begin with a suggested area of interest; usually this is an area either known to be overstocked or an area that was last entered >10 years ago. We seldom do clear-cuts, opting instead for very targeted variable-density thins. After reconning the area, we do a volume cruise to get an idea what's in the unit. Then we do the preliminary review. This is a paperwork process and is where the bunny huggers and fish ticklers get their first crack at our plans. We address their concerns before moving on. Next, we determine the actual area for the sale and bound it out. Then we mark it for harvest. Marking is a time-consuming process whose importance can't be overstated. Once marked, there is some tricky math to figure out final volume to harvest, and the finished sale paperwork is passed out for a second review. Again, all stakeholder concerns are addressed. Finally the unit is sold, the roads prepared for hauling, and the trees harvested. Once closed out, the sale area is replanted as necessary, and left to grow for a few years before the cycle starts over.

Here are a few of my auxiliary duties, as well. I keep a database of timber thefts and dump sites, one of invasive species, and another of vehicles and equipment conditions. I maintain all of our small engines. I maintain all of our field computers and their software. I was recently certified as a COR (contract officer's representative), the only task I have, other than fire, which could get me arrested if I do it wrong. I do market research, both for tree stuff and equipment. Supposedly we'll soon be taking over our own sale administration as well. Should be interesting. I never go anywhere without a GPS, or a saw. Knowing the rules is a full-time job, as well.

Every day is busy, and I never know what to expect. I don't bother much worrying about the weather. I like what I do and can't imagine doing anything else. My only real complaint is that there aren't more hours in the day. Budget stuff chafes, but is well beyond my control, so if I ##### now and then, I'm just letting off steam. This is very cool work, if you are into it, and can find the job. Don't do it if you don't love it. Spend a season or two out there doing different things before committing. Ex-military folks tend to do well in forestry because they are used to change and adapt quickly to new rules.

 

[Jacob J.]

I can give you the full-time fire perspective. I'm an operations specialist with a DOI network that encompasses several different areas. Like Madhatte, I rarely know for sure what a new day will bring. One minute I can be doing fuels reduction with my crew, then called away for a technical rescue/car crash/medical response/wildfire. Summer before last, I was IC (incident commander) on a large technical rescue where a young man had fallen off a cliff and was trapped in a group of rocks and trees overhanging a 600' drop to the valley floor. It took us 4 hours to rescue him and he was in a coma for three weeks but made a full recovery. A few days after that, I was on a large fire in northern California prepping for a 1700-acre burn out in heavy timber.

Sometimes you'll be camping out under the stars; sometimes you'll be making a hooch in the rain. It can be blistering hot and dusty, or freezing cold and wet. You can start the day off on the valley floor in good weather and that night end up on a mountain top and have it start snowing on you. You can go from a large fire in central New Mexico to an isolated wilderness fire in northern Montana. As in the military- there's a lot of "hurry up and wait" in fire fighting. There's also a lot of feast or famine in this job. Some years are really slow, and some years there's so much activity you're going non-stop from April until Thanksgiving. There's lots of preparation too- physical and mental fitness, equipment, training, overall program readiness, project work, prescribed fires, etc.

This year, two of my main projects are prepping nine units for burning which comprise 4000 acres, and falling up to 900 snags of all sizes in a hazard tree contract with the Forest Service. Definitely get your education- a small investment in that now will pay big rewards in the future.

 

[Gologit]

Good thread. We need Slowp in here, too.

 

[Matt59]

Thanks madhatte and Jacob J. The way you two put it, it sounds like it's a very busy job with a broad range of things you do. I like the sound of that.
I'm staying in school for sure right now. Community college is what it is...but I'm going to try to transfer to NC State next year.
As for now, I'm looking for a summer job, preferably involving trees, chainsaws, axes, hard labor, or any combination of those.

 

[KenJax Tree]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned anything about 7-11 coffee and donuts yet:msp_biggrin:

 

[Gologit]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned anything about 7-11 coffee and donuts yet:msp_biggrin:

That's LOGGERS...foresters have croissants and cappuchino at some place with real linen tablecloths and snooty waiters.



I'll go stand in the corner now, with my Donettos and 7-11 coffee, and try to look contrite.

 

[slowp]

I'm kind of slow at thinking so there will probably be bits to add later.

I retired 2 years ago after 32 years with the Forest Service. I stumbled upon forestry after actually finding out that I liked a botany class. I have a 2 year degree, it was what I could afford. My background is Timber except for 5 years on the darkside as an engineer tech--roads.

Now, this was the failure of most of my fellow classmates. Are you good at math? There is a lot of it to do in forest work. It is easier now, the computer does a lot of it, but I imagine you still need a good background to get through school. I almost didn't make it.

Sounds like you will actually want to get out in the environment. It isn't a park, and you won't be walking on trails. A lot of folks can't handle it, kind of like logging, you will fall down, trip and get banged up sometimes. Timber people usually wear out their knees, feet, and or ankles if they stay in a job that is more fieldwork. My feet went bad and I also turned an ankle black a couple of times, landing on it wrong.

When I started, we got grunt jobs like tree planting and then timber marking. Timber marking still exists in places. You get to carry paint in a pack or vest and paint stripes and dots on trees. Up and down the hill, day after day after day...it can get old sometimes, but then you will come across something cool that most folks won't see, like an old cabin, or corral or dead critter (look out for cougars and bears--run away!might be hollered by a mischevious crewperson.:msp_biggrin

I even got helicoptered into places to take plots, but we always had to hike out, the helicopter was on call in the afternoons to go to fires. So, be prepared to buy spendy boots...probably not the Chippewas. :msp_rolleyes: I'd encourage you to go get fire qualified. Fires can break up the monotony if you are marking timber day after day after day, but sometimes they won't let timber people go because timber people have a specific quantity of work that must be completed by a certain time--a TARGET.

I worked my way into timber cruising, and then got into a most interesting field...sale administration. I found out that I really liked butting heads with loggers and working through problems to get trees on the ground and up on trucks. However, if you want to do that, you'll need to learn how different logging systems work, and be prepared for phone calls at home at night needing you to be up on the unit at dawn.
Some guys won't do that, and they still can have the job, but they won't get much respect or cooperation when a little bit extra effort is needed other than what is required from the loggers. This job is great if you hate to plan ahead and have a definite schedule.

You also have to be prepared to say NO. You'll have begging, whining, sniveling guys trying to cut corners and you'll need to say NO again and again and again...There are very bad, conniving loggers out there that cannot be trusted, but there are some very professional excellent ones. In fact, there seems to be fewer of the bad ones around. I think the competition weeded a lot of them out. You'll have to--when it is safe and the logs won't roll like in a thinning, walk and hop and crawl through the fell and buck to go mark a tree that needs to come down, and also to check the work. Out here, you'll have to go down to the bottom of a unit and beyond to look at and give the OK to use trees for rigging purposes. And maybe again if minds change. Then you will also grab some paint and mark out skyline corridors or skid trails for machinery. More paint.

Now, if you can, go for a BS degree. Otherwise, when you are in on the planning process, some folks won't think you are competent. That is in some places. There are places where the planning people work well together to get out a project, and there are places where team members have personal agendas and deliberatly will stall things. I've been at both kinds of places.

The Forest Service, being Federal, offers the ability to see different parts of the country. But, being Federal, they also have a lot of BS to deal with, like the current budget business.

I can't write anymore right now, my brain is starting to hurt. Must be from all the paint fumes inhaled over the years.

 

[slowp]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned anything about 7-11 coffee and donuts yet:msp_biggrin:

If you deal with the logging side of things, you have to be able to eat while driving and also drive with calks on. There isn't time to dawdle at mini-marts. Oh, and the ability to back up for a few miles while the MACK truck bulldog is an inch away from your radiator is also a good skill to have.

 

[Trx250r180]

That's LOGGERS...foresters have croissants and cappuchino at some place with real linen tablecloths and snooty waiters.



I'll go stand in the corner now, with my Donettos and 7-11 coffee, and try to look contrite.

ever have a logger burger ?

 

[Matt59]

I'm decent at math. By decent, I mean I'm breezing through the lowest level math courses at CC right now. Thats what happens when you don't take an entrance exam...Math teacher and I looked at the program reqs. for Forest Management at NC State. It's a lot of math, but I can get it done. Chemistry is what scares me, but heck, I'll make it work.

As for the physical side, I know I can do it. 4 years in the infantry patrolling from the swamps of eastern NC to the wasteland of southern AFG with a ton of gear, ammo, water, weapons, and body armor showed me what I can do as far as humping weight...it also made me hate my life at times though I know, thats not a lifetime of logging in the PNW mountains, but it's still enought to prove to myself my body's capabilities.

I appreciate your honesty slowp, and everyone elses too. This is really looking like something I'd love to do. That's what matters to me now. Yeah, money and benefits and that stuff will matter when I have a family to support. But right now I just want to get into something that really satisfies me.

 

[madhatte]

Community college is what it is...but I'm going to try to transfer to NC State next year.

Community colleges are often a great bang for the buck. You'll get all of the "ENG 101" type classes out of the way, same as at any other school, but with much smaller classes and for way less money. For the first two years, you can hardly do better. Also, it's often easier to transfer to your school of choice as a Junior than it is to be accepted as a Freshman.

Oh, and the ability to back up for a few miles while the MACK truck bulldog is an inch away from your radiator is also a good skill to have.

It's good practice for when there are TWO of those Mack bulldogs all up in your grill. I've ditched the truck a couple of times getting out of the way of somebody coming out with a load on when I was on the wrong channel on the CB, which often happens when you're crossing ownerships. The Oregon Coast Range is a good place for that kind of adventure. Remember: downhill and loaded ALWAYS has the right-of--way.

 

[slowp]

It's good practice for when there are TWO of those Mack bulldogs all up in your grill. I've ditched the truck a couple of times getting out of the way of somebody coming out with a load on when I was on the wrong channel on the CB, which often happens when you're crossing ownerships. The Oregon Coast Range is a good place for that kind of adventure. Remember: downhill and loaded ALWAYS has the right-of--way.

Always assume that there is a truck with a broken radio on the road. The place called Crewbus Corner is named for a reason.

 

[slowp]

ever have a logger burger ?

Those are served at the Huff and Puff.

 

[forestryworks]

I really don't like being in school, I'd rather work

My grandpa always told me, "you got plenty of time to spend the rest of your life working."

Do your schooling now while you've got the financial aid of the GI bill. Get a bachelors, too. It will give you more opportunities for when you are too old to hike up steep sidehills. A bachelors will give you more opportunities for permanent jobs over seasonal work. Competition is fierce, so make good grades!

I've got an associate of applied science in forestry and a bachelor of science in natural resource management. I'm glad I finished both degrees.

And remember this, school is a full time job, just like anything else. Form a good academic ethic, it usually translates to a good work ethic later.

 

[Matt59]

My grandpa always told me, "you got plenty of time to spend the rest of your life working."

Do your schooling now while you've got the financial aid of the GI bill.

And remember this, school is a full time job, just like anything else. Form a good academic ethic, it usually translates to a good work ethic later.

I have to keep reminding myself of that, and of the fact that if I don't finish this now I probably never will. Also, I guess I could go out now and find some work, but without a degree there's a big chance I'll be stuck doing that same thing forever without chance of promotion, advancement, etc.

This young buck just needs a kick in the pants every once in a while, I suppose!

 

[madhatte]

This young buck just needs a kick in the pants every once in a while, I suppose!

This crowd is all about the constructive mutual pants-kicking.

 

[Gologit]

This young buck just needs a kick in the pants every once in a while, I suppose!

Ask and ye shall receive.

You've had some great advice here from people who know what they're talking about. Grab that education while you can.

And when you become a forester remember to treat the loggers nicely. They deserve it.