Frankensplitter?

[KsPete]

I bought a "Frankenstien splitter" yesterday and I just hope I didn't bring someone else's problem home with me. It's a unfinished homebuilt splitter with a Datsun 1600cc engine(year unknown). I know that's probably way more power than needed, but that's what it came with. The guy I bought it from was building it so that it could be used vertically. I'm going with a different plan.

My first issue (after ensuring the motor runs well enough) is connecting the pump to the engine. So my first question is... can I use a lovejoy connector off the transmission shaft to the pump? I'm assuming the tranny shaft is splined, is that correct? If I can't find a splined connector, I was thinking of using a pulley system to power the pump. Any thoughts or suggestions?

This contraption came with a Cessna 24500 series pump (supposed to be new), a twin valve, and a cylinder (both from a backhoe). The cylinder barrel measures 5"x21" with a 2" shaft. Overall length is 29.5". The cylinder is probably a little on the short side for a splitter, but I cut my wood short anyway (small stove), so I think it will work for me. It also came with an oil reservoir, presumably from the same backhoe. It looks like it might hold 5 gallons.

The I-beam is 4"x8"x6'. The thickest part of the web is 3/8". Is this going to be heavy enough? I think it's kind of light considering the hydraulics that I'm using.

If I put this all together, will it work? Any ideas or suggestions (including critical ones) would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jags]

That "appears" to be a single stage pump. I would look it up to find specs on it, so you know what your dealing with. Make sure the pump does NOT have needle bearings if you plan on putting any side load on it. They need to be ball bearings or the pump won't hold up. I can't really tell, but it looks like an automatic trans. If that is the case, I would consider yanking the trans off, and driving it off of the crank output shaft. Not real familiar with those little engines so I don't know what that would take.

 

[leon]

log splitter

I bought a "Frankenstien splitter" yesterday and I just hope I didn't bring someone else's problem home with me. It's a unfinished home built splitter with a Datsun 1600cc engine(year unknown). I know that's probably way more power than needed, but that's what it came with. The guy I bought it from was building it so that it could be used vertically. I'm going with a different plan.

My first issue (after ensuring the motor runs well enough) is connecting the pump to the engine. So my first question is... can I use a lovejoy connector off the transmission shaft to the pump? I'm assuming the tranny shaft is splined, is that correct? If I can't find a splined connector, I was thinking of using a pulley system to power the pump. Any thoughts or suggestions?

This contraption came with a Cessna 24500 series pump (supposed to be new), a twin valve, and a cylinder (both from a backhoe). The cylinder barrel measures 5"x21" with a 2" shaft. Overall length is 29.5". The cylinder is probably a little on the short side for a splitter, but I cut my wood short anyway (small stove), so I think it will work for me. It also came with an oil reservoir, presumably from the same backhoe. It looks like it might hold 5 gallons.

The I-beam is 4"x8"x6'. The thickest part of the web is 3/8". Is this going to be heavy enough? I think it's kind of light considering the hydraulics that I'm using.

If I put this all together, will it work? Any ideas or suggestions (including critical ones) would be greatly appreciated.

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That pump is a gear pump-the outer gear extends past the center line of the pump shaft.
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the reservoir will be much to small for the system and the cylinder you have- it might have been the transmission oil reservoir-don't forget you are filling up the back side of the cylinder when it pushes forward and pushing oil back into the tank when it retracts.
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The pump mounting is a bit more of a problem as is the case with a power take off- not a clutch housing set up the PTO has a manual engagement system with individually replaceable clutch plates.
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If you were able to chat with someone at a machine shop to build a frame and mounts and machine a connecting shaft for the pump to be run off of a centrifugal clutch from a large gas engine-(Briggs and Stratton has them in their inventory) it will be easy to do.

BUUUUUUT you must purchase a larger hydraulic tank 7 gallons or more as the tank you have will never work and act like a geyser as it does not have the capacity to absorb the return flow of the cylinder and it will starve the pump as it does not have enough capacity.

If you buy a new tank and have the mount built for a centrifugal clutch and the motor is good it will just take some time to do it and you will be ok.

leon:spam:

 

[KsPete]

Thanks for the info.

Leon, the tranny is a manual and has a lever to disengage the clutch (see photo). Is there any reason I couldn't use that? Or is it better to leave that alone and use a centrifugal clutch? Would it be better, as Jags suggested, to remove the tranny and mount a c-clutch at the back of the motor? (I guess I don't quite understand what you're trying to explain.)

As far as mounting brackets, I can probably build those, including a larger reservoir. I have a couple of welders, plenty of tools and a decent scrap iron pile. The machining of the connectors will have to be farmed out.

Thanks.

 

[nickblaze466]

just my .02, but i would take the steel from the setup the guy has and scrap a good chunk of the other stuff.

put the engine and trans up for sale on craigslist, sell that pump, get rid of the valve setup and definately sell that oil tank.

you'd probably be looking at about 500.00 for motor/pump/valve and another 300.00 or so for a better cylinder. if you have a buzz box, old air caddies work very well for oil tanks in these applications. move that beam to the center and start assembling.

i think in the long run you will have less headaches with a more 'traditional' system than trying to get all those old parts cobbled together.

whatever you choose, good luck, and post up some pics when done

 

[grampakev]

i think thats a great setup. i ran a pump like that for years on the monster i had. i would work with everythind you have. get the yok for tranny, weld r rod to the yok that will fit a lovejoy, monunt the pump to the frame by means of angle iron (make sure the lovjoy is strait) and off you go. mines was a beast 5" cyl. and i had a soda keg (the kind you see at faires and places like that) for a tank. worked fine. i think everything you have should work great. just my .02 kevin

 

[jags]

Being that it is a manual trans, you could build off of the back of that. As a matter of fact if your high gear is an overdrive, you may have an advantage with that setup (lower engine rpm). Unless that pump is over a ~16-20 gpm, I would guess that your tank could work, but it would be on the small side for it.

As Grampakev said, get the yolk that fits off of the back of the trans and get to fab'in up some stuff.opcorn:

 

[leon]

frankensplitter

Thanks for the info.

Leon, the tranny is a manual and has a lever to disengage the clutch (see photo). Is there any reason I couldn't use that? Or is it better to leave that alone and use a centrifugal clutch? Would it be better, as Jags suggested, to remove the tranny and mount a c-clutch at the back of the motor? (I guess I don't quite understand what you're trying to explain.)

As far as mounting brackets, I can probably build those, including a larger reservoir. I have a couple of welders, plenty of tools and a decent scrap iron pile. The machining of the connectors will have to be farmed out.

Thanks.

Since my entire submission was lost as I did not post it and edit it constantly growl, hiss, spit,:censored:

You have to decide what your time is worth. versus the cost of a new splitter over X years including interest meaning the purchase price of a new splitter divided by the number of days in ten or twenty years being 3650 or 7300 days.

A top of the line timber wolf will cost you 2 dollars a day over ten years or a dollar a day over twenty-not including the simple interest.


You only buy a good tool once- provided you do not misplace them like I do.


You may be in for more trouble than it is worth, but I am not sure and I would rather tell you that now than for you to have problem after problem.

I always look at purchases a being for the life of a purchase and then some- the first splitter I had I owned for 25 years replaced the motor and pump and
replaced it with a splitter I will never have to worry about.

I still have the same 15 year old Isuzu truck and the same 15 year old ready heater kerosene salamander space heater- replaced an igniter plug and a power cord in fifteen years.

 

[KsPete]

Thanks, guys for the replies.

I think I've decided to fabricate a flange with a keyed shaft to attach to the universal on the back of the tranny. I think I can do that myself, but I may farm it out to a machine shop just make sure its true so I don't have any alignment issues. Then I should be able to easily attach a lovejoy connector. I have the rearend for this motor, and I may be able to use the yoke from it.

I'm also considering a pulley system (instead of the lovejoy) so I can mount the pump higher. But that would mean I'd have to fashion some type of pillowblock bearing arrangement for the shaft. What do you think of this idea?

I plan to have the beam swivel out to the back for splitting. If I can mount the pump up and out of the way, I can lay the beam closer to the center of the trailer (right behind the fenders). The beam would have a jack stand on the end to support it. I didn't like the way the original owner had placed the beam along the side, it seemed to be unbalanced.

As for the capacity of oil reservoir, I noticed the storebought splitters at TSC have a capacity of 31 quarts... barely 4 gallons. I'm just guessing at the capacity of mine but I think it's at least that. I also figured the shape of this tank would aid in cooling. Is the tank itself under pressure during operation?

Thanks, GrandpaKev and Jags for the encourgement on fabbin'. I've done plenty of that so getting this project going shouldn't be problem. I like to take some time to think about what I want to do before I do it. I've learned from experience it pays to slow down sometimes and get ideas from others.

 

[KsPete]

I checked the dimensions of the tank (3"x29"x22.5") and using an online conversion calculator, the tank should hold nearly 8.4 gallons of oil. That's, of course, if I did the math right. I'm not good at math, so if someone comes up with a different figure, I'd sure appreciate hearing it.

Leon, I agree with you on the value of buying quality tools. But, sometimes I like to take a gamble, and I like projects. I only paid $200 for this splitter and I figured that if it didn't work out, I could get my money back buying selling the components. I don't have the budget for a top of the line Timberwolf, but I can afford a 22-ton Huskee or something similar. If this project doesn't work out, that's probably what I'll do.

In the meantime (and before I spend any money on couplers, a new reservoir, etc.) I need to make sure the engine runs okay. It had been sitting for awhile, so the guy poured a little gas in the carburator. It started right up and sounded okay. He only ran it few seconds before shutting it off, which is probably a good thing. I figured the gas was bad so when I got it home I took the tank off and dumped the contents. What came out was a rusty looking liquid that smelled like old gas and ditch water. The inside of the tank was rusted up pretty good. Fortunately, I have a metal tank from an old outboard that's still in great shape... I'll just convert it for use on the splitter. Once I know the engine is good, I'll start work on the other stuff.

 

[jags]

I did not re-calculate your tank, but assuming that it can hold a little over 8 gal, and that you probably will only put 6 or so in it (for expansion and such), it should be fine.

Sounds like you are on your way. Yeeehaawww.

 

[Dave M]

Talk about overkill

Check the rotation of the pump... that pump may be the correct rotation to be driven off the front of the engine. There is no need for a transmission, centrifical clutch or anything along those lines...not sure why they were even recommended..

I would have to agree to sell the engine, trans, and BIG pump... and purchase a nice 8-13 hp engine and a new 2 stage pump. Makes life easy and ALOT cheaper to operate..... How many splits per gallon will the 4 cyl. get ??:greenchainsaw:

And yes your math was correct...8.47 gallons.

 

[some zilch]

that tank is plenty big for what you are trying to do

i would try to run the pump off the trans, and you can play with gear and engine speed

 

[blackdiesel]

your on the right track with the motor and transmission... this way you can be very selective of your engine vs. pto rpm.

However, i have done a much similar project to power my processor, the output shaft on the transmission turns the opposite to the rotation of the pump. I cant see your situation being any different, but i'm not saying that it is the same.

I had to run my tailshaft on the transmission through a transfer case and then power the pump out of the front... er, let me find my video...

 

[KsPete]

Very cool! I only watched the first part of the video because I have dial-up, but when I get to a wireless connection (probably tomorrow), I'll watch the rest of it.

I haven't checked yet for sure to see whether I'll have the same situation, but I think I will. If that's the case, I probably go with a pulley system similar to an automobile. I'll mount the pump above the tranny and face it backwards to get the proper rotation direction.

I picked a nice piece of 18" stainless shaft with a keyway today from my local steel salvage yard that ought to work. I also picked up a 14" piece of 1.5" shafting to make pins for the cylinder ends. All for about $5. It's amazing sometimes what you can find in those places.

 

[STEELHEAD]

NO belts

Very cool! I only watched the first part of the video because I have dial-up, but when I get to a wireless connection (probably tomorrow), I'll watch the rest of it.

I haven't checked yet for sure to see whether I'll have the same situation, but I think I will. If that's the case, I probably go with a pulley system similar to an automobile. I'll mount the pump above the tranny and face it backwards to get the proper rotation direction.

I picked a nice piece of 18" stainless shaft with a keyway today from my local steel salvage yard that ought to work. I also picked up a 14" piece of 1.5" shafting to make pins for the cylinder ends. All for about $5. It's amazing sometimes what you can find in those places.

Kspete, I wouldnt use a belt to drive your pump, Its hard enough to keep them tight and clean and dry and they just arent reliable, TOOOO much power and toooo much pump for a single belt system anyway, some pumps are reversable, and some you can just flip the gears around, personaly I would drive it off the front of the engine, and ditch the trans all together,especially, if its not a overdrive, if the radiators a problem interfering with the pump /coupling,. you can raise it,. It looks like a fun project, enjoy, Eric

 

[blackdiesel]

Kspete, I wouldnt use a belt to drive your pump

I disagree. I know you are talking about a single belt, and while that may not work, a multiple belt setup would handle and transfer much power. Think of a modern hay disk mower. Most setups use 4 big V belts and transfer ~75 PTO hp through the setup to the gears.

Granted, the pullys off of your lawn mower deck with the tiny v belt wouldnt do it. But if you step up to an industrial application it will handle it just fine

 

[KsPete]

Good news, the pump turns the same direction as the tranny so I should be able to hook it up directly with a lovejoy connector. That should make things much simpler.

Today, I'm going to install a gas tank and see how well this motor will run.

 

[BeeVee]

When I first started to build my log splitter I used scrounged parts from garage sales etc.
I hooked up a 5 hp Briggs & Stratton(free) to a ($20) pump that looked like yours using a Lovejoy connector ...the motor kept stalling out so I went to a 10 hp B&S($100)...it still stalled out .
I had a mechanic/hydraulics guy look at it and he said that the pump came off of a Skidder. I would need a V8 motor to run it .
After buying a proper 2-stage 16gpm splitter pump ($250 thank you), different love joy connectors and fabricating/welding different supports etc. I had a very good log splitter .
About a year later another mechanic told me I should have just run belts & pulleys from the 5 hp or 10 hp motor to gear down the speed(more power) to the Skidder pump . He said that alot of people around here do that .
Oh well .

 

[KsPete]

Well, I have 4 gears and 96 horses to play with so hopefully it'll work.

I installed a new gas tank this weekend and got the motor started. It does run and sounds okay, but it will need some carburator work, cause it won't stay running without some help.

I worked on the beam and pusher setup yesterday so I'm making progress... slowly.