Fuel Mix Colour Change ???

[Okie294life]

Hi All:

I have an issue that has me stumped I have a question about fuel changing colour in the saw tank. I use Amsoil Saber in my 2-stroke gas mix for all of my chainsaws. Saber, when mixed, is a blue cool-aid/Gatorade colour. I went to winterize all my saws and when I poured out the gas of each piece of equipment, the fuel was blue in colour – as it was when freshly poured in. There was one exception. When I poured the fuel out of my new Echo CS620p saw, the fuel was orange/rose’ in colour. Almost as if the orange, plastic tank colour had bled into the fuel. Any ideas of what may be going on here? I did run five tanks of fuel through this Echo saw and each time I filled it up, the fuel inside was blue in colour. Fuel has stabilizer in the mix. All my chainsaws have sat for approximately 4 months since their last workout. Not sure what to think. Why is this the only piece of equipment that has had a fuel colour change? All the fuel used in these saws was from the same lot so each piece of equipment is using the same fuel mix. Any insights would be appreciated. I should note that the Echo saw fired up on the third pull (after sitting for 4 months) and ran well, so I can only conclude the colour change did not have any affect on gas quality.

Could be that red armour taking over in that echo saw. It’s blood red almost, pretty much all I run. Love it. Maybe it has some left over from factory or when it was previously ran with it.

 

[the detached garage]

Could be that red armour taking over in that echo saw. It’s blood red almost, pretty much all I run. Love it. Maybe it has some left over from factory or when it was previously ran with it.

Not in this case. My 620p had 5 tanks of fuel/Saber mix run through it so I don't think the factory/dealer initial tank of red armour comes in to play. I sure wish it was that - would solve this mystery for me. Thanks Okie.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

Well, I dumped the generic blue stuff out of these two saws and its the same color as when it went in. Then again, these have had a lot more fuelrun through them than yours so maybe they leech coloration first and then stop. Or, maybe there's something about Amsoil that attacks this plastic. My only other theory is that the factory or dealer runs a little Power Blend or Red Armor through them to prime the engine with oil and the dyes from that oil can be persistent enough to show up after five tanks.
Whatever the case, I have always been suspicious of these transparent fuel tanks. Is the plastic as durable and UV resistant as the other material? No idea, but your experience makes me wonder.
It's really not a feature that I find important, either. I either top off between starts or I run it empty then refill.

 

[the detached garage]

Well, I dumped the generic blue stuff out of these two saws and its the same color as when it went in. Then again, these have had a lot more fuelrun through them than yours so maybe they leech coloration first and then stop. Or, maybe there's something about Amsoil that attacks this plastic. My only other theory is that the factory or dealer runs a little Power Blend or Red Armor through them to prime the engine with oil and the dyes from that oil can be persistent enough to show up after five tanks.
Whatever the case, I have always been suspicious of these transparent fuel tanks. Is the plastic as durable and UV resistant as the other material? No idea, but your experience makes me wonder.
It's really not a feature that I find important, either. I either top off between starts or I run it empty then refill.

Thanks for all your help on this. My thinking seems to parallel yours. I was quite surprised how dark red that Red Armor mix was. I agree about the translucent tanks. I do love the fact that I can easily see the fuel mix level, but I often wonder how durable they may be. I will keep an eye on things and sample my fuel once a month. I suspect if it was the tank colour that leached, it's probably done leaching and I won't see my fuel mix change colours.

 

[Cricket]

Not in this case. My 620p had 5 tanks of fuel/Saber mix run through it so I don't think the factory/dealer initial tank of red armour comes in to play. I sure wish it was that - would solve this mystery for me. Thanks Okie.

I had this happen once - and I live and work alone - but I *had* recently gotten it back from being tuned up, so I just figured it was something they left in it. If it hadn't been out of my hands for a few tanks - that would *definitely* weird me out.

 

[the detached garage]

I had this happen once - and I live and work alone - but I *had* recently gotten it back from being tuned up, so I just figured it was something they left in it. If it hadn't been out of my hands for a few tanks - that would *definitely* weird me out.

Weird me out is a good description - lol. It has me stumped. I have some mixed fuel in the saw now and I will see what happens. I suspect if it was the tanked that leached colour, I probably won't see it happen again since it most likely is finished leaching.

 

[the detached garage]

Hello All:

I finished running my test on the fuel/oil mix changing colour from blue to reddish brown. I have included a quick recap of the issue.

In May of this year, I put a brand-new Echo CS620P chainsaw into service. The fuel/oil mix was an 80:1 ratio using Amsoil Saber. I also added the maintenance volume of Amsoil Quickshot to my primary filler fuel can. I ran approximately 5 tanks of fuel through this saw over 8-10 hours of cutting across May/June. Incredible performance. I also ran this same fuel mix through two Stihl chainsaws at the same time. Excellent performance.

The Echo and Stihl saws then sat in storage in my climate-controlled garage until mid October at which point I decided to service all my saws for winter storage. When I dumped the fuel from each fuel tank here is what I discovered. The fuel mix from the two Stihl saws poured out the same blue colour as when it was poured into their tanks. The problem is with the Echo saw. When I poured out the fuel mix, it was a reddish brown.

The question posed to our membership was "what has occurred to cause a change in the fuel mix colour"? The big difference across these three saws is the two Stihl saws use a solid white plastic material for their fuel tanks. The Echo saw uses a translucent orange plastic for its tank to allow for easy fuel level checking. This is a very nice feature - easy to determine fuel level at a glance. The only explanation I can suggest is the translucent orange plastic is bleeding colour into the fuel mix. Other members have suggestion the same idea that the Echo tank is bleeding colour.

Assuming the tank plastic is the culprit, I ran a simple test as suggested by several forum members. I mixed a fresh batch of fuel/Saber/Quickshot and filled the Echo tank. I let it sit in the Echo saw for 2 months. When I poured out the fuel mix, it was green in colour (see photos). This would be approximately 1/2 the length of time the original fuel/Saber/Quickshot mixture sat in the new Echo saw when it turned reddish brown. I should also add that the remaining fuel mix in my primary filler can was blue in colour, just as on the day it was mixed. Do you think we can confirm it's the fuel tank?

I think of the basic colours of adding a strong orange colour to blue with the end result being a reddish brown (burnt sienna). This would explain what I saw initially. Now assume that the Echo translucent orange tank is done bleeding colour and maybe only supplying a small amount of a very weak orange (yellow), this would then explain the green colour of the fuel mix. Just a hypothesis. Let me know what you think.

The following pictures show the original Saber mix (blue), then the 2 month old fuel tank contents from the Echo saw (green).

 

[ZeroJunk]

Not sure what is the natural color of the polymer they make the tanks from, but you can bet it is dyed.
So just dye leaching out I suppose.
Of course, the color in the mix is dye as well. Not sure what it matters.

I have had customers claim that the dye in off road diesel stops up the nozzles in their torpedo heaters.

True or not I have no idea.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

Interesting result. All I can say is that I hope the leaching does not otherwise damage the plastic. Time will tell.
I said earlier that I didn't care about the translucent tank feature. Well, I was using two saws side by side all day today, one with the clear tank and one without. I really started to appreciate the convenience of knowing how much fuel was left.
What's funny about the design is that the tank is orange and Echo's oil is either orange or red. Neither provide a very good contrast through the plastic. Blue is very visible.

 

[HansFranz]

Figuring out some fuel color foible isn't enough incentive to risk straight gassing a saw.

This. I'm the only one who uses my saws, too, but I would never put straight gas into a 2T motor and bet its life on my remembering that I had done so. And if I did do this, I would fasten about 50 lockout/tagout signs to the motor to prevent me (or anyone else) from trying to start the engine with straight gas in the tank. (My talent for finding the ONE and ONLY possible way to F-up is remarkably consistent.)

As for your 2-mix changing from blue to green, my only guess is that maybe light/UV exposure and/or oxidation is "bleaching" the pigments in the 2-mix from blue to green. If it only happens on your Echo saw, and not your other brand saws, maybe Echo uses a different plastic for their tanks, a plastic that has less UV blocker, or is more permeable to oxygen or whatever.

Whatever the case, thanks for reporting back with your results/conclusions.

 

[the detached garage]

Thanks for your feedback. Since completing this little test, I have sent off my comments to Amsoil and Echo customer service/ tech support. Hopefully they may be able to explain this situation. Stay tuned.

 

[OM617YOTA]

I said earlier that I didn't care about the translucent tank feature. Well, I was using two saws side by side all day today, one with the clear tank and one without. I really started to appreciate the convenience of knowing how much fuel was left.

My battery electric saw has a translucent oil tank, and I appreciate it as well, for the same reason.

 

[the detached garage]

I just heard back from Amsoil and they agree that the tank is leaching colour. The other explanation they offered was "maybe" there was some other contaminant present from the manufacturing process causing the fuel/oil to discolor. They did not seem to be concerned, from a performance stand point, that the fuel/oil mix was compromised. They were confident that this issue would correct itself over several more tanks of fuel being run through the saw. Now to hear back from Echo.

 

[OM617YOTA]

I have had customers claim that the dye in off road diesel stops up the nozzles in their torpedo heaters.

Skeptical. More likely the dye is hiding other issues with the fuel, and it's those other issues that stop up the nozzles.

I just heard back from Amsoil and they agree that the tank is leaching colour. The other explanation they offered was "maybe" there was some other contaminant present from the manufacturing process causing the fuel/oil to discolor. They did not seem to be concerned, from a performance stand point, that the fuel/oil mix was compromised. They were confident that this issue would correct itself over several more tanks of fuel being run through the saw. Now to hear back from Echo.

By the time fuel's been sitting long enough to discolor, it's not fresh fuel anymore. Dumping it and refilling with fresh wouldn't be a bad idea, regardless of anything else going on.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

If running Ethanol mix they say 90 days max.

Efree they say 6 months if pump gas like I use.

I store the Efree in my boat and gen over winter and never a issue with it storing that and longer.

 

[the detached garage]

Skeptical. More likely the dye is hiding other issues with the fuel, and it's those other issues that stop up the nozzles.



By the time fuel's been sitting long enough to discolor, it's not fresh fuel anymore. Dumping it and refilling with fresh wouldn't be a bad idea, regardless of anything else going on.

Your missing one key point. When I dumped the fuel from my Stihl saws, fuel mix was blue. Same colour when freshly poured in. The two Stihl saws act as a check. If the fuel mix had changed colour in all my saws, then we could conclude that fuel or the oil would be the culprit. The 2 litres of fuel mix I had left in my filler can was a blue as the day it was mixed. The longest I keep mixed fuel is for 2 months. Again, any fuel mix that I dispose of at the 2 month mark is as blue as when it was first mixed.

 

[the detached garage]

So I just received my response from Echo. Aside from them wanting me to switch to Red Armor, their only applicable comment to my situation was:

"The discoloration could be caused by multiple things such as the oil used, or the fuel grade used or if there is ethanol in the fuel."

Ok. So let me vent, momentarily. I find it incredibly irritating when people don't fully read and understand a post/comment/email before they respond. Venting ended.

My explanation to Echo was the same as I posted with this group. The problem with Echo's response? I had two Stihl saws using the same fuel mix, from the same filler can, used at the same time, for the same duration with NO colour changes. If the fuel mix in the Stihl saws looked the same as what came out of my Echo - reddish brown - then one might consider the fuel or oil as the culprit.

Anyways, I think I am comfortable in the results showing that the Echo tank is leaching colour. I suspect that this "colour change" issue will diminish in time as more tanks of fuel are run through the saw. I believe it is already clearing up because the fuel mix that last came out in the test was green and not reddish brown.

I greatly appreciate all your comments.

 

[the detached garage]

Interesting result. All I can say is that I hope the leaching does not otherwise damage the plastic. Time will tell.
I said earlier that I didn't care about the translucent tank feature. Well, I was using two saws side by side all day today, one with the clear tank and one without. I really started to appreciate the convenience of knowing how much fuel was left.
What's funny about the design is that the tank is orange and Echo's oil is either orange or red. Neither provide a very good contrast through the plastic. Blue is very visible.

I will definitely be keeping an eye on the tank plastic to make sure it's not being compromised. Seems to be a fairly robust plastic so I don't see this being an issue - I hope. I do like the see through tanks - definitely. I have this crazy theory that Echo is aware their orange translucent tanks leach colour. That's why their oil is red No way could you see any colour change from orange leaching into dark red . All good. I love my Echo saw and I am very happy with my fuel/oil mix.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Your missing one key point. When I dumped the fuel from my Stihl saws, fuel mix was blue. Same colour when freshly poured in. The two Stihl saws act as a check. If the fuel mix had changed colour in all my saws, then we could conclude that fuel or the oil would be the culprit. The 2 litres of fuel mix I had left in my filler can was a blue as the day it was mixed. The longest I keep mixed fuel is for 2 months. Again, any fuel mix that I dispose of at the 2 month mark is as blue as when it was first mixed.

I wasn't commenting on the fuel color in your saws at all, just that best practice for 2 month old pump gas is to dump it and replace it with fresh fuel.

The part of my quote about fuel dye was referring to another post about off road diesel being burned in a torpedo heater, nothing to do with your saws at all.

In this case, I think you missed the key point.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

I wonder if my red mix in my 670 has changed yet. Comes out sort of orange-ish after awhile setting.

Like said in past in earlier post here, I see it happen in my red colored tanks.