General moisture meter on sale

[Whitespider]

I want to be told that they are magic, durn it all!

L-O-L ‼
That says more than you know unclemoustache‼
Most want to believe in magic, that's why people watch magicians... even pay hard cold cash for the pleasure of being fooled and tricked. That same want (or need??) to believe trickles over into gadgets... especially electronic gadgets. People want to believe their gadget gives them an edge, makes their life simpler, provides them with a shortcut... they want to believe in the magic.

Personally, I don't care to be fooled and tricked, I'm not entertained by the magician... but I do find it amusing to watch the reactions of those who are. Maybe I'm too damn analytical, but when someone shows me something (especially a gadget) and says, "It does this"... my first thought ain't, "WOW, that's cool"... my first thought is, "How-in-he!! can it possibly do that??" And to be honest, I ain't buying until I know how it does it... most of the time they're trying to sell a magic trick. I gotta' hand it to the manufactures and retailers of cheap (OK, inexpensive) electronic gadgets though... magic sells, and they know it.

A moisture meter that ain't accurate, that reads 12% on firewood in Wisconsin, is of no use to me... a moisture meter that ain't accurate can't tell me any more than banging two pieces of wood together and feeling their weight. For that matter, my ohmmeter on the high resistance scale coupled with a reference chart (which I have) would tell me more... a whole lot more.
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[super3]

Damn Spidey, what a buzz kill you are!

Here these fellers were all excited to get a new toy on the cheap and you go and piss on the fire.

 

[hammerhead 5410]

For that matter, my ohmmeter on the high resistance scale coupled with a reference chart (which I have) would tell me more... a whole lot more.

Where can I find this reference chart?

 

[zogger]

Damn Spidey, what a buzz kill you are!

Here these fellers were all excited to get a new toy on the cheap and you go and piss on the fire.

I think they are still good enough for a ballpark figure/notion on what is up in your stacks. Especially red oak, I have a good idea of what it is fresh cut, one year old, two years old now, and the variances in different size splits. Some of the larger splits are taking three years to get down into the mid teens.

I don't think it matters a lot of it isn't exact or calibrated, because you are checking your wood in your area and conditions all the time. As long as you have a benchmark known dry piece to check it against, say kiln dried dimensional lumber. Very thin cut and split pine I can get into what is reading single digits, which about matches dimensional *here*, other areas may differ somewhat, but that goes to show they are close. For 20 bucks it is a fine "ballpark" tool, IMO.

 

[Marine5068]

Mine is very accurate.
The meters sold these days are far more accurate than Spider and other doubters think.
They have circuit boards that can tell different resistance and adjust the micro voltage accordingly to get a far more accurate reading than years ago.
Mine SBI meter certainly wasn't $20 but it IS a great tool for managing my firewood.
Of course wood gains and loses moisture as does every element, compound and object on Earth. But now I can track it's moisture loss after cutting and splitting it, over the months and year(s), to tell when it is about ready to burn.
And a moisture meter is hands down, more accurate than guessing how dry wood is, with no real information other than when you cut and split the wood.
Worth every penny.
Just get one and you'll be a believer.

 

[olyman]

Damn Spidey, what a buzz kill you are!

Here these fellers were all excited to get a new toy on the cheap and you go and piss on the fire.

 

[Coldfront]

Crawl back into your hole spidey. Most here understand what a know it all you are.

 

[Whitespider]

Where can I find this reference chart?

Well, you could start here...
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr06.pdf
...or even here...
http://woodgears.ca/lumber/moisture_meter.html
...but mine comes from engineering handbooks and is a lot more complete.

Very thin cut and split pine I can get into what is reading single digits...

Single digits in Georgia?? I'm thinkin' not... maybe in Arizona.
zogger, wood is hygroscopic, it's equilibrium moisture content is controlled by relative humidity (RH) at a given temperature... the size of the wood does not change that, it only changes how fast it may reach that equilibrium point. At 75° it would require a continuous RH below 50%... at 85° it would require a continuous RH below 60%. I just checked Atlanta... at 9:00AM this morning the RH was 90%, the next time it's forecast to drop below 50% is Saturday, and it's expected to be in the 90-100% range several times this week depending on time of day. If you've got a moisture meter reading single digits on wood... well... it's flat-azz wrong.

Mine is very accurate.

Really?? How do you know?? What, or better yet, how many known accurate references have you checked against??

********************************************************

Do you believe in magic?
In a young girls heart
How the music can free her
whenever it starts

And it's magic
if the music is groovy
It makes you feel happy like an old time movie

I'll tell ya about the magic
It'll free your soul
but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll

If you believe in magic, don't bother to choose
If it's jug band music or rhythm and blues
Just go and listen
It'll start with a smile
It won't wipe off your face no matter how hard you try
Your feet start tapping
And you can't seem to find
How you got there
So just blow your mind

If you believe in magic
Come along with me
We'll dance until morning, just you and me
and maybe, if the music is right
I'll meet ya tomorrow
so late at night

We'll go a dancin' baby then you'll see
all the magic's in the music and the music's in me, yeah

Do you belive in magic? Yeah.
Believe in the magic in a young girl's soul
believe in the magic of rock n roll
Believe in the magic that can set you free
Ohhhh, talkin' bout magic

Do you believe like I believe?
Do you believe in magic?
*

 

[zogger]

Well, you could start here...
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr06.pdf
...or even here...
http://woodgears.ca/lumber/moisture_meter.html
...but mine comes from engineering handbooks and is a lot more complete.

Single digits in Georgia?? I'm thinkin' not... maybe in Arizona.
zogger, wood is hygroscopic, it's equilibrium moisture content is controlled by relative humidity (RH) at a given temperature... the size of the wood does not change that, it only changes how fast it may reach that equilibrium point. At 75° it would require a continuous RH below 50%... at 85° it would require a continuous RH below 60%. I just checked Atlanta... at 9:00AM this morning the RH was 90%, the next time it's forecast to drop below 50% is Saturday, and it's expected to be in the 90-100% range several times this week depending on time of day. If you've got a moisture meter reading single digits on wood... well... it's flat-azz wrong.

Really?? How do you know?? What, or better yet, how many known accurate references have you checked against??

********************************************************

Do you believe in magic?
In a young girls heart
How the music can free her
whenever it starts

And it's magic
if the music is groovy
It makes you feel happy like an old time movie

I'll tell ya about the magic
It'll free your soul
but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll

If you believe in magic, don't bother to choose
If it's jug band music or rhythm and blues
Just go and listen
It'll start with a smile
It won't wipe off your face no matter how hard you try
Your feet start tapping
And you can't seem to find
How you got there
So just blow your mind

If you believe in magic
Come along with me
We'll dance until morning, just you and me
and maybe, if the music is right
I'll meet ya tomorrow
so late at night

We'll go a dancin' baby then you'll see
all the magic's in the music and the music's in me, yeah

Do you belive in magic? Yeah.
Believe in the magic in a young girl's soul
believe in the magic of rock n roll
Believe in the magic that can set you free
Ohhhh, talkin' bout magic

Do you believe like I believe?
Do you believe in magic?
*

I am getting high single digits on my bundle wood, the thin split pine kindling. It is stacked on the wall behind the zogger smogger. I tested some for fun before going into the bags. The best I get right from the stacks outside is low teens in anything I have tested, 12-`14%, around there.

 

[hammerhead 5410]

Thank WhiteSpider. Very informative. When I get a chance in this weekend I will compare my Multi meter to my General mm. I will reply with the findings.

 

[Whitespider]

By the way, if you guys looked at those charts I linked to, you'll notice that the resistance values, for the woods shown (I ignored the exotics), at 20% moisture content ran from a low of o.48 ohms for American Elm, to a high of 6.3 ohms for Black Spruce. So... tell me... how does your $20.oo moisture meter know if it's testing elm, spruce, one of the others on that chart, or even one that ain't on that chart?? And don't forget, those values are at 80°... if temperature changes then you would need to do a temperature correction calculation.

And single friggin' digits zogger?? Look real close at those charts. At 9% moisture content the American Elm value is 350 ohms, Red Oak is 1590 ohms, Paper Birch is 5000 ohms, Jack pine is 9500 ohms, and Red Pine is a whoppin' 17,000 ohms‼ Even at 25% moisture content the values range from o.26 ohms to 4 times higher at one full ohm. Heck, the value for American Elm doesn't even change from 21% to 25% moisture... it remains constant at o.4 ohms. How in he!! could a $20.oo moisture meter you can not calibrate possibly know which one it's testing... how in he!! could it possibly give an accurate reading?? The simple truth is... it flat can not‼
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[farmer steve]

I agree that a moisture meter can't be that accurate unless proper calibration has been done but if you sell wood, you can wow em with some info the average firewood buyer doesn't know, or you could just use it to quiet down a customer who has no idea how to burn wood and claims you sold them green. I don't own one or plan on buying one however.

that's right. if ya can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS.

 

[zogger]

By the way, if you guys looked at those charts I linked to, you'll notice that the resistance values, for the woods shown (I ignored the exotics), at 20% moisture content ran from a low of o.48 ohms for American Elm, to a high of 6.3 ohms for Black Spruce. So... tell me... how does your $20.oo moisture meter know if it's testing elm, spruce, one of the others on that chart, or even one that ain't on that chart?? And don't forget, those values are at 80°... if temperature changes then you would need to do a temperature correction calculation.

And single friggin' digits zogger?? Look real close at those charts. At 9% moisture content the American Elm value is 350 ohms, Red Oak is 1590 ohms, Paper Birch is 5000 ohms, Jack pine is 9500 ohms, and Red Pine is a whoppin' 17,000 ohms‼ Even at 25% moisture content the values range from o.26 ohms to 4 times higher at one full ohm. Heck, the value for American Elm doesn't even change from 21% to 25% moisture... it remains constant at o.4 ohms. How in he!! could a $20.oo moisture meter you can not calibrate possibly know which one it's testing... how in he!! could it possibly give an accurate reading?? The simple truth is... it flat can not‼
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Like I said, I use mine for a general ballpark, I am not expecting exact readings. Generally, no matter the species, the lower the reading on the tool, the drier it is. yes, there will be variables, but so far, it seems to correlate good enough for casual use, to check status of the stacks, etc. When I see oak start out fresh cut at high 30s, etc, and get it down so the meter shows teens..right there is where it sits, it doesn't get much drier than that, for the reasons you mentioned. That level corresponds to "as dry as I can get it stacking outside", here, my conditions and wood. Is it necessary? No, I can just do a "two summers at least" stack time, which is what I do anyway. Is it somewhat useful and fun, sure it is. Like I mentioned earlier, I find it useful for comparing a thinner split to a fatter one, some I restack if they aren't within a range where I know I have hit driest I can get, save them for next year. My splits aren't exactly uniform, so I test the larger ones in every batch. Once I can see the larger ones read the lowest digits I can see, I know the thinner ones are there as well.

It is the *range* that is important, the actual numbers, not being highly accurate, not so much. I grok the different species, etc will read different, doesn't matter for my purposes as I am only testing against other pieces of wood within that same species and batch. So it doesn't matter if it is 5% off one species to the next, the range of how they change within a stack of similar wood is the useful info for me, it could be just a general analog swing/sweep needle for that matter.

Like a car gas gauge, we've all seen how sometimes-generally speaking-perhaps the top half of the tank is a lot more than the bottom half (whatever), still nice to have a gauge that will give a general look at it, and once you know your vehicle, you will know pretty close how many gallons you have left, even if the gauge is inaccurate, because you have gotten used to the range of how it operates.

 

[rpdragon]

Hey, stop raining on my parade. I want to be told that they are magic, durn it all! Stop sticking facts into this.

.

I hear ya. I hate geniuses like Spidey who have to prove their intellect at every unopportune moment.

 

[toqua]

That statement alone tells me your MM ain't reading true.
Do you have any idea how low the relative humidity would have to be for an extended time period before wood can reach an equilibrium point of 12%?? Are you telling me the relative humidity in NW Wisconsin as been below 65% all summer?? Even at night when temperatures drop?? Even when it's raining?? Really?? No kiddin'... no dew on the grass in the mornings?? No frost lately?? Really?? No foggy days?? Really??
I might, just might, be able to be convinced your pine is at 15% moisture content... I'd be more likely to believe 16% or 17%.
But 12%?? No friggin' way in Wisconsin... no friggin' way‼
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I have wood in the shed that is 3 years old that the mm says is 12 percent but it's pretty dry here with very little humidity.

 

[woodchuck357]

I have several moisture meters ranging from the General to $600.00 Delmhorst and none of them are any where near accurate under all conditions. First they only read resistance not moisture, most if not all of the cheap ones are calibrated for fir. They only read a high of 30%, even if the wood is actually over 100% moisture.
The only accurate way to measure moisture content is to weigh a sample with a very accurate scale, oven dry it under controlled conditions until the weight no longer drops, then weigh it again. The difference in weight can then be calculated to give the amount of moisture in the wood before oven drying. If the sample sits around for a while it will regain moisture to the equilibrium for the area.
I recently tore down an old barn that had a good roof and tested a piece of the oak framing that hadn't been exposed to water in many years. It was at 15% moisture. I doubt any wood stored in a shed for very long around here--even if it had been kiln dried--would be drier. A piece of oak taken out of an attic during a remodel in the summer tested at 7.5%.

 

[woodchuck357]

The humidity here averages much lower than Georgia but the lowest air dried and stored in a shed red oak I have found was 18%, using the oven dry method. The general meter showed it to be 13%.

 

[Whitespider]

Crawl back into your hole spidey. Most here understand what a know it all you are.

I almost let this one go… but… well, then came this one...

I hear ya. I hate geniuses like Spidey who have to prove their intellect at every unopportune moment.

What the heck… after all, it is name-callin’.

A “know-it-all” would be posting in every thread on this board; he would be trying to prove his vastly superior knowledge of any and all topics.

On the other hand… I’m not afraid to post about what I have knowledge of, what I’ve educated myself on. But those threads I have no knowledge about… well… I kick back, light a smoke, open a beer, and open my mind. If I keep doing that I may someday become a “know-it-all”… but I’m a long road from it now.

Just because someone knows more about a specific subject than you, doesn’t make them a “know-it-all”. Heck, it don’t even make them smarter than you… it only means they are more knowledgeable in that specific and narrow subject. A “know-it-all” believes he “knows” more than anyone else… he can’t be taught anything. But I “know” there will always be people out there with more knowledge than me, about any subject… and I “know” I can learn from him.

I’m aware there are, and will be people who won’t, or don’t like me because of the way I come across… I figure that’s their problem, not mine.
But name-callin'?? Just a bit childish, don't ya' think??
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[cantoo]

Way to go Spidey, now you done gone and called her out. She'll be along any minute to ruin another informative thread.

 

[Whitespider]

Sorry cantoo... sorry man, I flat wasn't thinkin'
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