Generator size to run 1hp Supersplitter

[upsnake]

Whitespider - wouldn't you have to have a nice enough of a generator that can produce the correct frequency at different engine speeds though? It was my understanding that with most gennys it is all or nothing, they can idle but as soon as one thing calls for power it needs to run at the full 3600 rpms to produce 60 hz. ( I could be completely wrong though been known to happen, a lot if you ask my wife. )

 

[TJ-Bill]

Can ask why buy and splitter with an electric motor when your planning on using a Gasoline generator to run it? your ending up paying 3-4 times more for a generator then gas engine that would have been on the splitter.

 

[Circle B MN]

I believe the concept is to run the SS on electricity the majority of the time, then when you need to operate remotely you can run it off a genset if you wish. Least that is my game plan. Another nice thing about running off a genset is that the noise is 100ft away at the end of the power cord. I already have gensets, so cost of additional equipment is not a factor for me.

 

[CUCV]

All the start up ideas are cool, I even have a few others, but the reality is that the electric motor will come close to a stalled state when splitting something that can't be split on one hit thus the generator will need to start it on its own. I can try my fathers 4000watt max on my splitter to check it out. I will check but I think my father sold his 2500watt max generator but if he still has it I can try that too.

 

[Whitespider]

upsnake,

I don’t know of any portable generators that idle, or change speeds… they all run at 3600 RPM whether-or-not there is load. Mine doesn’t have any sort of throttle lever, or knob, or whatever… it runs at 3600 RPM continuously, even with nothing hooked to it. Actually it can damage the generator head to run it a less than rated RPM, even with no load.

But… a small 4-cycle gasoline engine running at 3600 RPM is not at “wide-open-throttle”. The throttle plate is controlled by the governor, which opens the throttle only as much as is needed to maintain the RPM’s. With no load applied to the engine, at 3600 RPM, the throttle plate barely moves from idle position… only under load does the throttle plate open further. The amount of fuel used is in direct proportion to how much air is flowing through the carburetor (or past the throttle plate… or how far the throttle plate is open).

The generator head, turning at 3600 RPM is making full AC voltage (120 or 240 depending)… but if nothing is plugged in to pull amps there are no watts being produced (i.e. zero load on the generator head and near zero load on the engine). Watts are a measure of power (amps x volts), and if nothing is using power (pulling amps) there are no watts being produced by the generator.

When something is plugged into the generator it places a load on it, which places load on the engine, which causes the throttle to open in order to maintain RPM. As you increase the load (amps) at any given volts, there will be more load placed on the engine, causing it to use more fuel, and the more heat created by the generator head. That heat is hard on the generator head… and it is lost energy (watts) that is reducing the relative efficiency of the generator/engine combination.

A 13-HP engine/5500w generator, running 3600 RPM, at 20% load (1100-1200 watts) will use a whole lot less fuel than a 4-HP engine/1500w generator, running 3600 RPM, at 80% load (1100-1200 watts)… The larger generator will hardly make any damaging/wasteful heat and would take near forever to wear-out, but you’d likely burn up the 1500w generator in well under 100-hours.

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

A wild idea crossed my mind....

If the start up wattage is the concern, what about modifying the splitter by using the belt drive as a clutch? The method of modification would depend on the design of the belt drive. My first thoughts would be to use a longer belt, and put in movable tensioner connected to a lockable lever. Disengage the clutch to start the motor. Once the motor is up to speed, slowly engage the clutch to get the flywheel up to speed.



Thoughts?

I like the idea of an over center belt clutch if it can be done easily. Then you could surely get by with one of the whisper quiet Honda generators, which I have, (no super split though). I said earlier I like saw noise, but hate splitter engine noise. Can't explain it, but if you watch youtube vid of electric SS, it is almost tranquility!

I like the way you think ;-) The idea would be to get by with the smallest/lightest/quietest generator possible. Not much efficiency in having a 6000 watt, 200lb generator run a 1000w load. A co-worker suggested getting the flywheels spinning before applying power. Don't know the practicality /accessability of doing that- I'm pretty sure those flywheels are well covered up. I too don't mind the noise from chainsaws, but that 13hp honda clone on my 27ton splitter sure drives me nuts.

Just thought I'd put the thoughts in progression....:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Duane(Pa)]

All the start up ideas are cool, I even have a few others, but the reality is that the electric motor will come close to a stalled state when splitting something that can't be split on one hit thus the generator will need to start it on its own. I can try my fathers 4000watt max on my splitter to check it out. I will check but I think my father sold his 2500watt max generator but if he still has it I can try that too.

Thanks, that would be awesome. I could live with being a little "selective" about what I tried to crunch when hooked to a genny. (sometimes I BS myself)

 

[timbrjackrussel]

Any inveter type generator can change speed depending on load and still put out 60CPS.
Honda Generators: Portable Generator Power for Home, Work, and Play

 

[Whitespider]

Yes, that is true... an inveter type generator can throttle up and down...
But they typically cost from 5-10 times as much as a conventional type generator.
An inverter type generator is certainly not required to run an electric log splitter... or most things short of sensitive equipment for that matter.
All my comments were directed to conventional type generators, as I thought that's what we were talking about here.

 

[BSD]

you're going to have your truck with you in the woods.... so why not run a large DC inverter? let your truck run for an hour or two while you split. no extra motors to maintain, sure, it might use a little more fuel, but the simplicity of it will be worth way more. I have a 2400w inverter we use to run a 2" water pump @ work for filling our 500 and 300 gallon tanks. it's so much easier than dragging our 3" gas pump around.

 

[3fordasho]

I believe the concept is to run the SS on electricity the majority of the time, then when you need to operate remotely you can run it off a genset if you wish. Least that is my game plan. Another nice thing about running off a genset is that the noise is 100ft away at the end of the power cord. I already have gensets, so cost of additional equipment is not a factor for me.

^^^^ Exactly.

All wood for personal use comes home and gets split at home.. sometimes in my closed garage.
Lesser wood I leave at the wood lot, split it and stack it at the wood lot. I sell that wood to my fireplace/firepit customers.
Once my current lots are clear cut, unless I find more to work I will do all splitting at home.

 

[3fordasho]

Lots of great ideas being thown out there. I am certainly learning a bit about generators.. Sounds like a 5000w unit is what I should be looking at. Will also check into the inverter idea using the truck to power it.

To the member who offered to test his splitter with a generator- that would be much appreciated!

 

[mesupra]

How about you purchase a 3 or 6.5 hp honda clone engine, engine bracket from Paul at SS and switch over to gas when needed, can't be anymore work than lugging around a gas sucking generator. I think this would be the way to go esp. if you are not in need of a generator. My SS has the 3hp briggs and I rarely run it on the governor, where as my 8hp 4400 homelite runs at 3600rmps the whole time, load or not, its going to use way more fuel and require even more maintenance than a 3 or 6.5 clone engine.

 

[Clarkbug]

How about you purchase a 3 or 6.5 hp honda clone engine, engine bracket from Paul at SS and switch over to gas when needed, can't be anymore work than lugging around a gas sucking generator. I think this would be the way to go esp. if you are not in need of a generator. My SS has the 3hp briggs and I rarely run it on the governor, where as my 8hp 4400 homelite runs at 3600rmps the whole time, load or not, its going to use way more fuel and require even more maintenance than a 3 or 6.5 clone engine.

That seems like a pretty good idea to me... one of the predator engines from HF can be had on the cheap when they go on sale and have the coupon, and thats a lot cheaper than a generator.

although, if you want the generator for your house, thats another story...

 

[Patrick62]

My 25 cents worth!

I run off the grid, and have several generators around here. I am also about half of a sparky as well, so I fiddle with things a bit. My experience thus far:

Don't try a inverter unless you get a really really big one. They are full of magic smoke. When the smoke comes out.. :bang:
A 1hp motor would be a terrible load for any inverter to start up, even without a load!

Generators are the same as electric motors. They both have a significant overload capability if the wiring is up to the task. The smaller Chinese generators have the wimpiest engines and the generator is capable of more than the engine can do. There is a valid point of trying to get a higher quality set.

I have a antique 1500W army generator. I have a 3/4 HP drill press. It will NOT start the motor. A 3K will do it nicely. I would imagine that your 1hp would be the same. No reason for a 5K genset, overkill.

Once the motor is off the starting surge, it is correct that the watts drops considerably. As long as the SS doesn't load the motor down to strting speed then it really isn't gonna take a lot of power to keep things going.

View attachment 227904
the little 1.5 K military generators...

View attachment 227905
Big John. 3K rated, and will do 3 phase at a variety of voltages. In the back ground you notice the 20,000 watt ST unit.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

What we need here is a convertable! (then patent the d@mn thing)

 

[upsnake]

Whitespider - Thanks a bunch for the explanation. That makes a lot of sense. The Genny that i have a 13 hp generac 5500 w, has an "idle control" switch, that it will idea down the engine speed, if nothing is asking for power.

I normally don't use it though b/c my sump pump runs anyway from 2-3 a minute, so the generator is just getting done reving down and it has to rev back up. (that way when i had the extension cord to the sump), since i hooked the genny into the the house is is more stable.

 

[Whitespider]

I took a chance on one of the Harbor Freight 13-HP 5500/6500w generators with electric start a couple years ago, on sale and with coupon I paid like $450.oo.
After reading the reviews on them I decided on three things...

1. Most problems were being seen with the larger 6500/7500w units, the 5500/6500w units had better reviews.
2. Do some maintenance before using it (tighten bolts, toss the cheap spark plug, etc.).
3. Break it in slowly.

The first hour of run time was done in four 15-minute cycles, no load, letting it cool-down completely between, then I changed the engine oil. During the he second hour of run time I started by powering a couple of 100w light bulbs, adding just a bit of load every 10-minutes or so (radio, box fans, old furnace blower, battery charger, etc.). After letting it cool down overnight again I ran it a third hour adding more (variable type) loads to the previous (drill press, air compressor, table saw, etc.) After I set up my transfer box(s) I used it occasionally to power the shop during that summer while I was out putzing around in it... 1-2 hours at a time. After about 10-hours of run time on it (only used 'bout 4-gallons gas) I gave it the big test and powered up the house, shop, and well house... no problem at all. We've need to use it during power outages twice now, the longest was only 6-hours but it worked flawlessly. The electric start is nice because the wife can easily start it if'n I'm on the road. I keep fresh fuel in it, start the thing 'bout once a month, and run a small load for 15-minutes or so every second or third test start. I haven't put a gauge on it, but I gotta' believe the 5500/6500w is an under-rating... because we don't even make it grunt while powering the house, shop and well house.

 

[Boundaryh20]

How about you purchase a 3 or 6.5 hp honda clone engine, engine bracket from Paul at SS and switch over to gas when needed, can't be anymore work than lugging around a gas sucking generator. I think this would be the way to go esp. if you are not in need of a generator. My SS has the 3hp briggs and I rarely run it on the governor, where as my 8hp 4400 homelite runs at 3600rmps the whole time, load or not, its going to use way more fuel and require even more maintenance than a 3 or 6.5 clone engine.

I actually chatted with Paul on this before I bought my SS. He mentioned that it would only take a few minutes to switch between gas/electric....now that I have a SS, can't see it taking more then 10 - 15min to take the gas engine off and replacing with an electric motor. I plan on setting mine up for electric at some point...just too many other projects right now! But it sure would be nice having the electric in the pole barn to split...

I have also been thinking of a way to mount both (electric motor under the beam, gas on top of beam), then just switch belts from electric/gas. Should be able to do this, but the cover would have to be modified to offer protection/safety from the belts.

Good-luck

 

[Whitespider]

Don't try a inverter unless you get a really really big one. They are full of magic smoke. When the smoke comes out..

I have to agree with that 100%. I use one of those "hook-up to your battery" inverters in my work van to power my laptop and some diagnostic equipment, also charge two-way handheld batteries and cordless tool batteries, occasionally power-up a two-way mobile or data radio. They definitely are full of "magic smoke" which appears a few months after purchase, just when you need it most. The loads I place on it are small, really small with very little surge (if any)... Started with a 200/400w, magic smoke in 3 weeks... Went to a 400/800w, magic smoke in 3 months... Now I'm on my third 750/1500w in two years... I've learned to just carry a new spare back-up.