Grinding down depth rakers. Bad idea?

[woodyman]

IDK why yours wouldn't cut with the rakers off? I took one of the old chains with the rakers filed down and used it on the 750 evl just for giggles a couple years ago and it definetely cut faster than the chain with the rakers on it! Either way, I don't have any need or want to run a rakerless chain now!

I just don't see how any saw would cut with no rakers.We are talking real sharp chain on the saw?It would take way too big of a bite and then you have to get all them real big chips out of the way.I would like to see a vid of a no raker chain in action though:jawdrop:

 

[B_Turner]

IMO if someone is getting any additional cutting speed with the rakers lower than say 35 thou then your chain is not sharp.

It's that simple.

And no depth gauges is a recipe for poor performance and disaster and anyone doing that is suspect.

 

[Anthony_Va.]

I just don't see how any saw would cut with no rakers.We are talking real sharp chain on the saw?It would take way too big of a bite and then you have to get all them real big chips out of the way.I would like to see a vid of a no raker chain in action though:jawdrop:

I agree with that! Theres no way any saw will cut with no guides. You can file them a little further than recommended, but not all the way off. I have filed my down too far with my 066 and it would just bite.

It's just impossible to cut without any guides at all. If anyone disagrees with that, post a vid and ill admit I'm wrong, not until then though.

 

[rmotoman]

IMO if someone is getting any additional cutting speed with the rakers lower than say 35 thou then your chain is not sharp.

It's that simple.

And no depth gauges is a recipe for poor performance and disaster and anyone doing that is suspect.

As mentioned before Echo's like low rakers. I usually run .4 to .5.

 

[kspakland]

Many years ago, when I had a Stihl 038, I was running Stihl full chisel chain and kept the rakers about .060 (I had an adjustable raker gauge and wish I had it now).
I was cutting Juniper, Pecan, Oak, Walnut, and Mesquite. That saw had the power to pull the chain like that, cut like a wildfire in a strong wind, and I never had a problem with premature wear on the engine or clutch. I bet I cut several thousand cords of wood before I sold the saw due to my back not being up to the work any more.
My case is probably an exception though ..........

 

[stevohut]

No rakers sounds pretty insane. I would not want to be the guy hanging onto that saw when it hits the wood. Grinding them a little lower is ok, but right off. Sounds like something you would see on utube. Think of how much faster that would cut your body parts off if you made an oops.

steve

 

[turnkey4099]

No rakers sounds pretty insane. I would not want to be the guy hanging onto that saw when it hits the wood. Grinding them a little lower is ok, but right off. Sounds like something you would see on utube. Think of how much faster that would cut your body parts off if you made an oops.

steve

Yep. If no rakers or even way lower than recommended was good, the manufacturers would be making the chain that way to begin with. The competition to turn out the 'best cutting chain' is too intense for such a simple thing not to be used.

Harry K

 

[CGC4200]

Oregon 72SG chain with tie strap bumpers

Over the years, I have acquired 3 of these chains with new or near new
cutters. Is it worth the effort to grind down the safety tie strap?
On this chain, the rakers/depth gauges are ahead of the bumpers.

 

[MCW]

Over the years, I have acquired 3 of these chains with new or near new
cutters. Is it worth the effort to grind down the safety tie strap?
On this chain, the rakers/depth gauges are ahead of the bumpers.

Yeah I think it's worth it. I've done it a few of those safety chains. It takes a while if using a chain grinder - best way is with a 4" grinder if you're careful. Problem with these guard link or bumper link chains is that as the cutter gets shorter these "bumpers" really start affecting the way a chain cuts.

 

[woodyman]

I went over to the OP's(Lonedrake) house today and checked out his chain.The chain was was on its last leg with a few more sharpenings left.We put it in a 12" peice of red oak and it cut but had no speed and you couldn't put any preasure on the bar at all without it booging.He is going to get a new bar and chain for it.He just ground those rakers down too far.I think my ported 371 would have pulled it good but the 455 just didn't have enough balls.We talked alot about angles and chain types and I think we both learned alot.

 

[dingeryote]

Good show there woody!!!

Lotsa folks coulda used a good neighbor before they got disgusted and quit or ended up needing some stitches.

I hope Lonedrake sticks around now that he's pointed in a good direction.

Rep on ya!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Anthony_Va.]

I'll second that rep!

Glad you got this guy on the right track woody!

 

[woodyman]

Good show there woody!!!

Lotsa folks coulda used a good neighbor before they got disgusted and quit or ended up needing some stitches.

I hope Lonedrake sticks around now that he's pointed in a good direction.

Rep on ya!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

Thanks,he was less than a mile from me.I could have walked over.Lonedrake is a real nice guy with a nice spread.Plan on seeing him again soon.

 

[Lonedrake]

Thanks Woodyman! Next time I will have beer

It was great! He lives about a mile and half away by road...but only about 1/2 mile through the woods to the south. I should cut a trail

I now know what type of chain to get next.....and it certainly will not be the low kickback type. With the type of rakers like the one on Craigs saw it will be much easier and quicker to file them down a bit.

Another neat tool that Craig had was an RPM meter. He took my saw and showed that it was only turning at 10,000 rpms. He adjusted the high setting and it started turning at 13,000 rpms. Neat little tool and I never even knew they existed.

Now I am looking(actually have been for awhile) for a log splitter. Have my eye on a North Star 22 ton at Northern Tool. Splitting some of the bigger oak(24-28") really wears a guy out with a maul.

The next step will be selling the wood. Figuring out if its profitable enough to keep doing it....or just keep having huge bonfires. So far I have saved most of the red oak. Too bad firewood wasn't in a huge demand in the summer when I would actually have time to sell and deliver it.

 

[dingeryote]

Thanks Woodyman! Next time I will have beer

It was great! He lives about a mile and half away by road...but only about 1/2 mile through the woods to the south. I should cut a trail

I now know what type of chain to get next.....and it certainly will not be the low kickback type. With the type of rakers like the one on Craigs saw it will be much easier and quicker to file them down a bit.

Another neat tool that Craig had was an RPM meter. He took my saw and showed that it was only turning at 10,000 rpms. He adjusted the high setting and it started turning at 13,000 rpms. Neat little tool and I never even knew they existed.

Now I am looking(actually have been for awhile) for a log splitter. Have my eye on a North Star 22 ton at Northern Tool. Splitting some of the bigger oak(24-28") really wears a guy out with a maul.

The next step will be selling the wood. Figuring out if its profitable enough to keep doing it....or just keep having huge bonfires. So far I have saved most of the red oak. Too bad firewood wasn't in a huge demand in the summer when I would actually have time to sell and deliver it.

LOL!!!
Hook, line, sinker...

Look into selling to campgrounds and such. Lower volume, higher margins.
Downside is every woodsrat with a Saw and a splitter will be doing the same thing.

Stick around and yak it up with the guys that do make a Biz of it.
They can help ya decide.

Have fun with it and stick around!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[vaclimber]

So my question is....other than kickback what other problems can this cause?


It cuts so good when I wear this chain out(almost there) I am thinking of grinding off the rakers from the get go.[/QUOTE]

You'll shoot your eye out kid! Gradual is the way to go. One instance of fatigue or complacency is all "It" takes. Hurricane Isabelle taught me the hard way

 

[vaclimber]

Many years ago, when I had a Stihl 038, I was running Stihl full chisel chain and kept the rakers about .060 (I had an adjustable raker gauge and wish I had it now).
I was cutting Juniper, Pecan, Oak, Walnut, and Mesquite. That saw had the power to pull the chain like that, cut like a wildfire in a strong wind, and I never had a problem with premature wear on the engine or clutch. I bet I cut several thousand cords of wood before I sold the saw due to my back not being up to the work any more.
My case is probably an exception though ..........

Your back might still be "up to it" if it wasn't taking all the premature wear. I was thinking about all of the unnecessary abuse my shoulders and wrists(and back) have taken. I think most of my youthful pee and vinegar has been sweat out. Enough can be a wonderful thing sometimes. Even with the dgs slighted down, I wont allow many people to use that saw. The added aggression of increased RPM(lighter chain) and bigger bite is too much for many the"PROS". Its an art, after-all.Not a measuring contest, at least for me now anyway.

 

[arborjockey]

IMO if someone is getting any additional cutting speed with the rakers lower than say 35 thou then your chain is not sharp.

It's that simple.

And no depth gauges is a recipe for poor performance and disaster and anyone doing that is suspect.

check it out somebody else with numbers thats useful. I agree. Unless your on youtube then type in v8 chainsaw fire



Quoted from above

kspakland.. I had a Stihl 038, I was running Stihl full chisel chain and kept the rakers about .060 (I had an adjustable raker gauge and wish I had it now).
I was cutting Juniper, Pecan, Oak, Walnut, and Mesquite. That saw had the power to pull the chain like that, cut like a wildfire in a strong wind, and I never had a problem with premature wear on the engine or clutch. I bet I cut several thousand cords of wood before I sold the saw due to my back not being up to the work any more.
My case is probably an exception though ..

u cut thousands of cord of wood with a 038 no wonder your back hurts

 

[woodyman]

Thanks Woodyman! Next time I will have beer

It was great! He lives about a mile and half away by road...but only about 1/2 mile through the woods to the south. I should cut a trail

I now know what type of chain to get next.....and it certainly will not be the low kickback type. With the type of rakers like the one on Craigs saw it will be much easier and quicker to file them down a bit.

Another neat tool that Craig had was an RPM meter. He took my saw and showed that it was only turning at 10,000 rpms. He adjusted the high setting and it started turning at 13,000 rpms. Neat little tool and I never even knew they existed.

Now I am looking(actually have been for awhile) for a log splitter. Have my eye on a North Star 22 ton at Northern Tool. Splitting some of the bigger oak(24-28") really wears a guy out with a maul.

The next step will be selling the wood. Figuring out if its profitable enough to keep doing it....or just keep having huge bonfires. So far I have saved most of the red oak. Too bad firewood wasn't in a huge demand in the summer when I would actually have time to sell and deliver it.

Had a fun time Steve.The RPM meter is my TinyTach-FastTach.I think for your uses the Carlton Premium sprocket tip bar&chain combo that Baileys has would work very good for you.It's a 20" replaceable sprocket tip bar thats 3/8X.058 with WoodlandPro 38RC on it for $39.95 plus shipping.

 

[kspakland]

My current saw to use is a Sachs Dolmar 120 super/si frankensaw, I have my chains sharpened nicely, rakers trimmed to around .035" and I have too much engine RPM and not enough chips coming off the bar to make me happy, I feel like I am wasting power, so I am once again going to experiment with taking the rakers down a bit deeper. But not all the way. And I limit how many cords I'm cutting these days. I'm no spring chicken any more. I sure am thankful for Vicodin these days .......