Heating oil price increase this winter will be "staggering."

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Hansson, I have a Tarm wood boiler made in Sweden. Just curious, How big storage tanks do you and your neighbors use with wood boilers.? Are they pressurized or do you use heat exchangers?

Hello
Tarm boilers are now made in Denmark.The baxi grop buy the company Perifal pannan that was Swedish.

I have 2 1000L storage tanks. They are pressurized.
I have one 150L tank in the top of the house that keep the pressure at 0.6bar
For the water that you take a shower in i have 2 pipes that are in one of the storage tanks.They are 15 metres in length each .
One in the bottom of the tank and one in the top.

The one in the bottom preheats the whater that are coming in to the system.

2000L is to little to my boiler.In the summer i cant fill the fire space to its maximum. 2500L would be fine.

The ordinary size of storage tanks in sweden is 1500L-2000 litre I think.
But that is starting to change.
People are going for bigger tanks.
My friend have a storge tank thats is 6000L :)

Sorry for my bad English
 
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Thanks Hansson, I have a TarmSolo40. I haven't put in storage yet. I think here in America wood boilers are just now beginning to catch on. Storage seems to be a bit confusing. Many here use 1000 gallons for my size boiler. Two 500 gallon pressurized used propane tanks. Many are using copper heat exchangers but the price of copper has skyrocketted.
 
Thanks Hansson, I have a TarmSolo40. I haven't put in storage yet. I think here in America wood boilers are just now beginning to catch on. Storage seems to be a bit confusing. Many here use 1000 gallons for my size boiler. Two 500 gallon pressurized used propane tanks. Many are using copper heat exchangers but the price of copper has skyrocketted.

Is the copper heat exchanger a tank in the topp of a tank?
inside?
Like this?
http://www.baxi.se/visa_produkt.asp?produktid=21&Kategori=7&Produkttyp=2

Are you using some kind of Charging unit in the systems?
Like this one
http://www.termoventiler.se/default.asp?webb_ID=110&webbsida_ID=56&u1_ID=189&u2_ID=190

I have copper pipes in my tank and the have really getting expensive.
 
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Hansson, come over to:
http://www.**********/econtent/index.php/forums/
Go to the Boiler Room section. I think you would find it interesting.
Chuck
 
I've read alot of posts before about how it is illegal to get caught with heating oil or off road diesel in your vehicle but last winter diesel was cheaper than heating oil! How's that for a switch!
I am working on getting my woodpile ready for this winter and maybe some for next, we have an oil burner but used wood most of last winter and still burned up 550 gallons of oil.
I just called and ordered a partial fill for my tank at $4.41/gal. , cheaper than diesel for now. Figure I'll get the pain out of the way while the money is coming in and not when we slow down in the winter.
1 Tank is going to have to do it this winter, will be burning alot of wood!
 
Insulate, Insulate, Insulate.

Thats the way forward, that and fitting a heat recovery ventilation system.
triple glazed low emission windows and a small wood burning stove.
Passive houses have been made in Europe for the last few years, these need no heating. The occupants body heat and the waste heat from appliances heat the house.
AFAIK there are a few in the USA not sure exactly where but a quick google will bring up plenty of examples.
Oil has gone up worldwide and has thrown a big spanner in the works of all industries that use oil in quantity.
Ignore fuel for a moment and also consider that plastic which is derived from oil is also going to rocket in price, countless other things are manufactured from oil including fertilizers so the pain will be evenly spread.
The developed world is an oil junkie and the price of a fix has gone up and doesn't look like coming down anytime soon.
Thats cold comfort to anyone who is going to have trouble filling their oil tank this winter but long term people are going to have to change their lifestyle, Radically.
 
Heating Costs

Rumor has it that heating oil will go up to $7.00 + per gallon in New England.
Many are turning to wood/coal stoves as an add-on furnace. Briquettes made from sawdust are being made available with heat output being compared to coal and prices about .30 cents per briquette. A pallet of briquettes is being touted as the equivalent of 1 1/2 cords of firewood. A supplier of these Briquettes in CT says he cannot make them fast enough. Don't mean to use scare tactics but what if heating oil is not even available?
The time to prepare is now - not when it gets cold. Comments?
 
Rumor has it that heating oil will go up to $7.00 + per gallon in New England.
Many are turning to wood/coal stoves as an add-on furnace. Briquettes made from sawdust are being made available with heat output being compared to coal and prices about .30 cents per briquette. A pallet of briquettes is being touted as the equivalent of 1 1/2 cords of firewood. A supplier of these Briquettes in CT says he cannot make them fast enough. Don't mean to use scare tactics but what if heating oil is not even available?
The time to prepare is now - not when it gets cold. Comments?

Two comments: Do you have a source for the 7.00+ comment? article/tv show? etc(just wondering)

I don't see anybody waiting in line at the pumps, I don't see anybody not able to get heating fuel. Supply of oil is NOT the problem. Us being suckers is. I think the statement that heating oil will not be afforadable for most people this year is closer to true than no available. Plumbers will be happy as pipes will freeze and burst in more homes than normal this year i bet.
 
I really feel bad for the retired ones on a fixed income. I have not bought heating oil for a couple years now. The last time I bought it I only got 50 gal. The only time I run the oil furnace is when I clean the chimney. During the colder months I burn wood 24/7.
Next year I think alot more people will start burning more wood after this winters wake up call on fuel prices. Especially after they jack up electricity prices. Some people I have talked to are buying new electric furnaces to replace their old oil furnaces to save some $$.
 
:D I have 30+ acres that will be cleared just for firewood so I am safe on that end but I will barely be able to afford the $4.45 or $5.50 a gallon for #2 for the tractor:cry:. I plan on rebuilding the monster wood stove that is in the shop here so I can use a low pressure hydraulic pump to spray waste oil in. I will be replacing the sides and bottom and lining them with refractory brick or cement and I will be adding a grate for burning coal. That sucker as is with just wood heats my large shop to 70+ in just a few hours and I am able to put three foot logs in it up to 2Ft in diameter :hmm3grin2orange:
 
Two comments: Do you have a source for the 7.00+ comment? article/tv show? etc(just wondering)

I don't see anybody waiting in line at the pumps, I don't see anybody not able to get heating fuel. Supply of oil is NOT the problem. Us being suckers is. I think the statement that heating oil will not be afforadable for most people this year is closer to true than no available. Plumbers will be happy as pipes will freeze and burst in more homes than normal this year i bet.

Agree with cruzer. $7 does not seem to be in the cards this winter but sure is possible a few years down the road.

Three factors are driving the price of oil:

1) The supply - demand curves do seem to have crossed. Demand continues to rise (globally) while supply has tapered off and may be in decline.

2) The value of the dollar. Falling dollar means higher prices.

3) Most important. Fear. The Iraq war, threats to bomb Iran, unrest in Nigeria, and a half a dozen other international situations frighten people and drive speculation.

Many of us can and do heat with wood. Many more will. But it is impossible for everyone to heat with wood. Our forests would be gone in five years. What then?
 
Agree with cruzer. $7 does not seem to be in the cards this winter but sure is possible a few years down the road.

Three factors are driving the price of oil:

1) The supply - demand curves do seem to have crossed. Demand continues to rise (globally) while supply has tapered off and may be in decline.

2) The value of the dollar. Falling dollar means higher prices.

3) Most important. Fear. The Iraq war, threats to bomb Iran, unrest in Nigeria, and a half a dozen other international situations frighten people and drive speculation.

Many of us can and do heat with wood. Many more will. But it is impossible for everyone to heat with wood. Our forests would be gone in five years. What then?


Well what I see around these parts is alot of big expensive houses on small 1/4 lots. Some of these people, well more than some, MOST can afford to pay the natural gas or electric bills without blinking an eye. These folks think I'm nuts as they drive by and see me sawing, splitting and stacking wood.

I on the other hand would much rather buy some more new saws than fork out the $2475.00 to fill my oil tank. Even if I had money pouring from my pockets I would still burn wood.
 
Skid Row - We've had the same thing here for years - Funny, all the late 50's - 60's subdivisions were small raised ranch's, etc. 1400 sf or so. Now, it's 4000sf, big tall 24' ceilings, 4 bathrooms, etc - I don't know how they make the mortgage payment on a $500+ thou. house, let alone heat it.
 
Here is a good BBC article showing that not even the leaders of diffrent countries know why oil prices are so high. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7486764.stm


I told my wife that you don't need to heat the house above freezing if you don't have any water in the house...ie drain the pipes, shut city water off and you won't have to worry about heating the house. She didn't like that.:confused:

I have been using my garden tractor/trailer less than planned to move firewood cause of the gas cost... I just use wheel barrel more now.


Stew
 
Wood-Burning Stove Demand Also Rises CNBC.COM

Wood-Burning Stove Demand Also Rises

The surge in oil prices isn’t just limiting how much people drive; its making them worry about next winter’s heating bill, and triggering a boom in the oldest source of fuel around: firewood.

SXC

“People are doubling their orders, trying to stock up on wood,” said Vito Scarvaglione, owner of Vito’s Tree Service in suburban Fort Lee, N.J. “It’s going to be a crazy year — I’m trying to get as much wood done as possible.”

Scarvaglione expects the price for a cord of wood (128 cubic feet) to approach $300 this winter, up from about $220 now.

That can still be a bargain when you consider the cost of home heating oil is up 84 percent in the last 12 months amid the global surge in commodity prices. Heating oil now costs a whopping $3.88 per gallon. That translates into about 38,000 British thermal units of heat per dollar, versus about 100,000 BTU per dollar for firewood.

And with banks such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley forecast even higher prices for crude oil later this year, wood providers like Scarvaglione are anticipating a record season. Scarvaglione is trying to build his inventory now before the cold weather approaches, especially because a decline in home construction has reduced the amount of wood available from clear-cutting developments.

“I guarantee there will be a shortage of firewood this year,” he said.

Wood-Burning Stove Demand Also Rises

The surge in firewood is also a boon to the wood-burning stove industry. “Orders are up 500 percent through the first 25 weeks of the year,” said Alan Trusler, vice president of home and hearth sales for stove and fireplace maker HNI Corp. Robert Dischner, director of marketing at rival Lennox Hearth Products, reported a 200 percent increase.

“In March, this was not forecast – no one foresaw this,” Dischner said. Shares in both HNI [HNI 16.89 -0.61 (-3.49%)] and Lennox’s parent company, Lennox International [LII 28.74 -1.82 (-5.96%)], have been beaten lower this year because less home construction has reduced demand for manufactured fireplaces.

Kurt Rumens, president of privately held rival Travis Industries, has also been scrambling to keep up.

“We have added 100 workers and we need another 100,” he said.

The renewed interest in wood heat is allowing the company to bring employment back to a former Boeing plant in Mukilteo, Wash., after its jobs were moved overseas in 2003.

Travis is getting mobbed with orders for stoves that burn normal wood, plus units that consume pellets made from scraps. He’s now telling some customers they’ll have to wait up to four months for new models, more than twice the time in early June. “Dealers are selling 30 to 40 pieces in a weekend, when normally it would be three to five,” said Rumens. “It’s not slowing down.”

© 2008 CNBC.com

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25496384
 
With all due respects to JLROOT the problem is far from being just drill drill drill.
Apparently a lot of people aren't aware that for example, opening up the Artic wildlife refuge for open drilling would reduce prices one to two percent in 20 years. 20 years ???

The last time we got serious about energy independence, the Arabs dropped the price of crude. They are afraid of us reducing our reliance on them and want to keep us tied to their apron strings.

There is more crude in the Canadian oil sands and the US shale oil than EVER existed in Saudi Arabia.

Ken
 
Luckily 2 years ago I replaced my Central AC with a 13 SEER Heat Pump with
a fossil fuel kit that kicks the Heat Pump out at 23 degrees and brings in the
oil furnace instead of using electric heat strips. I've bought 100 gallons of oil
between the last 2 winters and I still have quite a bit. I can heat my '59 ranch
style home, 1900sq.ft. for about $1.00/day. I may drop my outdoor
thermostat even lower because I was still getting 83 degree heat, out of
registers, at 24 degrees outside. I'm still amazed that I can heat my home
comfortably to 69-70 degrees for a $1/day.
 
The last time we got serious about energy independence, the Arabs dropped the price of crude. They are afraid of us reducing our reliance on them and want to keep us tied to their apron strings.

There is more crude in the Canadian oil sands and the US shale oil than EVER existed in Saudi Arabia.

Ken

Problem is we're not the only key player that wants their oil this time. I do believe that with the way things are going there's going to be a worldwide recession and they say that's what it's going to take to curb oil prices.
 
Problem is we're not the only key player that wants their oil this time. I do believe that with the way things are going there's going to be a worldwide recession and they say that's what it's going to take to curb oil prices.

I agree, but until we get serious about drilling our own oil and/or China falls apart, things are going to be difficult.

Ken
 
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