Help me choose a hydraulic pump

[kevtj]

I am looking for a little help choosing a pump for my splitter. I have attatched a couple of pics to show you what I am working with. This is something that I bought from a neighbor that I would like to get in working order. To this point I have only used the buzz saw part of it for cutting slabwood and it works well for that. I admit that I do not know a whole lot about it, and even less about hydraulics in general. The current pump is old, weak, slow and leaking fluid. I checked into a rebuild kit for it, the only one I could find costs about $700 for seals and a cartridge assembly. A new pump sounds like a better plan to me. The current one (see pic) is a Vickers 104D. The unit is powered by a Farmall power unit that I have been told is equal to a Farmall "A" in size/power (ignore the "H" sticker). There is a tranny behind it, not sure of it's make as of yet. A shaft comes out of the tranny and runs the buzz saw. That shaft also has pulleys on it that in turn power the hydraulic pump. (I can not stop the saw when using the splitter, think I might remove it when not needed for safety reasons). The cylinder looks to measure 3.5" so I'm guessing it is a 3" with about a 2 or 3 gallon res tank and no filter. A filter will be installed and I am thinking a new larger tank as well.

So, if you were me looking for a new pump what would you get? What other information is needed to decide? The current one is a single stage foot mount 10.6 gpm. Will a two stage work for this set up? Do I want a 2 stage for this set up? It looks like all of the 2 stage pumps are made to mount direct to a motor, could one be mounted in my situation to a piece of plate steel for example and then hooked to the small shaft in the pic "if" by some miracle the shaft sizes match up? If it matters and if it is possible I would like to end up with a 4 way wedge on this when I am done fixing it up. Any ideas would be helpful. If more info is needed, fire away and I will do my best to describe it better. Thanks for looking...View attachment 272301View attachment 272302View attachment 272303

 

[kevtj]

Edit... I just found these on Northern Tools site, had not seen them before..
Concentric/Haldex Angle Type Mount | Motors Mounting Brackets| Northern Tool + Equipment
I am not an expert but it looks like I can make things work with one of these or something built similar to it. If so it is a matter of making sure that I do want a two stage pump, and what size to get for my application.

 

[IHCCS]

that is definitely a Farmall A or B motor/grill. I think the setup is awesome.

I would suggest upping the reservior size, and go with a 22gpm 2-stage. You could upgrade the cylinder later if you want more splitting power. The 22GPM pump will make your cycle times fast.

You can get foot mount plates for a 2stage, Hydraulic pump mounting bracket to small engines for log splitters, scroll down toward bottom of page.

 

[Guswhit]

Interesting setup. Someone had some great ideas. If memory serves me, I think the "M's" had around 34-39 h.p. range. Now to get that out to a hydro pump with the proper rpm's through the tranny, I couldn't say what gear but I would not be afraid to run a large 2 stage pump. I have a 28 gpm and a 20 hp honda setup which is great. My cylinder is too big so my cycle time is about 12-13 seconds(full out and full retract), but the price was right. You may want to look at hooking the buzz saw up to a hydraulic motor also so you can shut it off, or if you take the tranny out of gear. It was hard to tell by some of the pictures were exactly the current hydro pump is hooked up. Is it by chance hooked to a shaft running out the side were an old auxillary pto system on the tractor was? This was commonly used for a forward mounted buzz saw with a large flat belt running to it. If it is you should be able to run that seperately from the buzz saw out the tranny. There should be a small lever up by the side mounted shaft. You pull up or push down for control on that. Clear as mud I'm sure, I just don't have any pictures at this time to show you what I'm trying to describe on the original tractors. I'll look for pic's and could you take some better ones?

 

[IHCCS]

That is a Farmall A/B motor from the grill design. Looks like a nice setup.

Depending on what year, it probably runs around 1800rpm, and high gear is usually 1:1 on them.

You can get foot mount brackets for a 2-stage pumps. You could surely go 28gpm, or 22gpm. You need to look at your reservoir size though I think.

Hydraulic pump mounting bracket to small engines for log splitters

 

[kevtj]

Here are a few more low quality cell phone pics, hope they help. The Northern Tools bracket would be an exact fit. The shaft center is at 4.5" now and that is what their bracket is that fits their 2 stage pumps. I do not want to go crazy with the price. If I can keep the pump price at $200 or underView attachment 272308View attachment 272309View attachment 272310 that would be great. Also, remember that this power unit is thought to be equal to an "A". (Code is a U2A). A's from what I can find are 13hp drawbar, 16hp pto. Yup, then there is the tranny that will affect it based on what gear it is in and I would also imagine the size of the pulleys. Over my head..

 

[Fifelaker]

A 2 stage pump needs to spin at 3600 rpm's to get rated gpm & psi output. Or I should say the ones I have looked into. It looks to me you could build a braket to make it work where your pump is now. If you go to surpluscenter they have a great calculator.

 

[Guswhit]

Sorry, I screwed up tractor size. I had a 16 gpm on mine when I had a 12 hp motor on it. I don't believe you'd be able to go any larger. The pictures helped alot! Not sure how you'd be able to stop saw the way it is set up now except for building a gaurd housing that could be lowered over it at times when not in use, but wouldn't that constant turning also take away some power to the pump? I think you will need a larger hydro tank also, somewhere I saw a thread on pumps and tank sizes here, I'll Look.

Try this one. http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/215786.htm

Also tank sizing info here. http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/64967.htm

 

[kevtj]

I'm thinking I may just take off the blade once I finish cutting slabwood. I will only need it on for a week or two out of the year. I can store it away the rest of the time and not have to worry about doing any mods or cutting my arm off.
I tried to post a pic of a bracket that Northern sells for their pumps but.... With my limited welding skills it looks like an exact match for what I need.

 

[nathon918]

A 2 stage pump needs to spin at 3600 rpm's to get rated gpm & psi output. Or I should say the ones I have looked into. It looks to me you could build a braket to make it work where your pump is now. If you go to surpluscenter they have a great calculator.

all pumps are rated for flow at a certain RPM

id look for a 2 stage in the 12-16 gpm range, set it up for belt drive with jackshaft on 2 pillow blocks with a pulley , and lovejoy coupling between jackshaft and pump.
12-16 gpm for a 3 inch cylinder is more than enough

and as for the saw rig part an easy way to have that seperate is to convert it to flat belt with a longer belt and lever mounted tensioner pulley on the slack side, that would "lock" into the "on" position, when not in use the drive pulley will spin freely

 

[Fifelaker]

all pumps are rated for flow at a certain RPM

id look for a 2 stage in the 12-16 gpm range, set it up for belt drive with jackshaft on 2 pillow blocks with a pulley , and lovejoy coupling between jackshaft and pump.
12-16 gpm for a 3 inch cylinder is more than enough

and as for the saw rig part an easy way to have that seperate is to convert it to flat belt with a longer belt and lever mounted tensioner pulley on the slack side, that would "lock" into the "on" position, when not in use the drive pulley will spin freely

All of these are rated @ 3600rpm except the 7 gpm which is 3800 rpm. He already has belts,pillow blocks all he needs to do is mate the u-joint to the pump or adapt a lovejoy to the pump and find a way to get about 3600 pump shaft rpm. It will not build max pressure or max gpm at less.
I like the flat belt and lever for the saw.

 

[nathon918]

All of these are rated @ 3600rpm except the 7 gpm which is 3800 rpm. He already has belts,pillow blocks all he needs to do is mate the u-joint to the pump or adapt a lovejoy to the pump and find a way to get about 3600 pump shaft rpm. It will not build max pressure or max gpm at less.
I like the flat belt and lever for the saw.

the way its set up now it looks like theres only 1 pillow block on the pulley side, the other end is supported by the pump, causing side load on the on the pump shaft, which all 2 stage pump ive seen arent rated for...

thats the reason for a new setup with the jackshaft fully supported by the pillow blocks, also with that u-joint setup if its out of balance or the u-joint fails that would be the end of the new pump

 

[EXCALIBER]

Don't see any reason to run a two stage pump with all that horse power. I would put a single stage pump on it at about 20 GPM. The whole reason for a two stage is so you can use a smaller engine and still get the same pressure, but with less GPM which of course means slower. A single stage will stay the same speed all the way through the wood.

 

[bejay]

sounds like you dont want to spend alot would probably remove it and see what type of shaft size and splines it has find out rotation and see if surplus center would have anything that would match up in similiar size in a single stage pump add a mount and maybe with a little luck it wont cost much to fix if the original pump is only 10 gpm probably wouldnt go up in size to much.

 

[WidowMaker]

All of these are rated @ 3600rpm except the 7 gpm which is 3800 rpm. He already has belts,pillow blocks all he needs to do is mate the u-joint to the pump or adapt a lovejoy to the pump and find a way to get about 3600 pump shaft rpm. It will not build max pressure or max gpm at less.
I like the flat belt and lever for the saw.

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There is probaly about a bizzillion splitters out there that are run at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle and split
anything and everything that is thrown at them. I wouldn't get too hung up on the rpm thing...just saying...

 

[timbrjackrussel]

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There is probaly about a bizzillion splitters out there that are run at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle and split
anything and everything that is thrown at them. I wouldn't get too hung up on the rpm thing...just saying...

Exactly
16 GPM Barnes 2 stage pump, 10 HP Honda G400 lots of power 403cc., 4.5" cylinder, 2" rod, more than enough speed at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle.

 

[kevin j]

can you front drive the pump off the front of crankshaft, then leave the saw blade on the transmission/in&out box?
at 1500-1800 engine rpm, you'd need a fairly large pump, but a simple single stage pump would be cheaper than the two stage, and you have the hp for it.

 

[dave_dj1]

That's a nice set up!
It looks to me that the current set up has the pump geared up via the pulley system. I'm sure someone could do the math with the pulley sizes. Like someone already mentioned, you could add a pillar block with the existing one and using some sort of lovejoy connection. I think it would be a wise decision in removing the blade for splitting.
I'm sure you could fab up a mount for the pump.
good luck and keep us posted.

 

[deerjackie]

Look up baileys intl hydraulics knoxville TN They may have what you need.

 

[kevtj]

View attachment 272529View attachment 272530View attachment 272531

Thanks for the tips everyone. I added a few more closeups of the actual pump area.

@Nathon.. Are you saying with the new set-up that you suggested the shaft to the left of the pulley (u-joint shaft that attatches to the pump), once replaced will also be blocked, or did you think there was only one block to the right of the pulleys as configured now because it could not be seen in the previous pics I posted? Just trying to clarify. I am not sure how sensitive the pumps are but if that shaft is blocked twice (as it is now) to the right of the pulley and the new pump gets mounted to a bracket is there still too much chance for damage to occur?

Yup, I'd rather have a tractor also but this is how it came (for in my opinion a very reasonable price...). My understanding is that it never was a tractor. It is a power unit per the tag. I think they used these to power hay balers and combines back in the day. I'm guessing they had an old junk tractor that they took the metal off of to make this look like it does. The "H" sticker must have been for fun after a few beers. I give credit to the person that built it, they must have spent some time on it.