Help needed worried about pine

[barnred]

we were visited yesterday by an arborist from usc.He reccommended removal of the 2 largest pines and keeping the 2 smaller which he felt were perhaps young enough and otherwise healthy enough to recover from the construction damage they have sustained.He also felt that they were currently small enough that any problems arising from the damage would be easier to deal with ie them failing or them dying and needing removal at a leter date.
the 2 larger sadly he suggested should go.The split in the 2nd largest he felt made the tree weak and with the damage it has sustained ,a thinner than normal crown and its proximity to the house he believes it is unsafe.The largest he believed was the most stressed with prior pine beetle infestation,severe sap sucker damage and also suffered the most in the grading of the site.At its great age he also felt it was least likely to recover,thinner at the crown than this species should be and would probably die by this time next year.Interestingly he estimated these trees had lost 90% of their root system and that these would have been torn and twisted apart during the leveling of the site and subsequent construction.
It really is very sad to lose such big and probably once beautiful trees,with a little care from the developers perhaps we would have been able to live with them happily.
However there still remains our developments ARB to convince.I will update with the result.
thankyou all very much for educating me .best regards caroline

 

[Elmore]

Guy, Photos of the broken, compromised area posted in this reply. Upon closer inspection the cause was basal girding by hog and barbed wire. It apparently grew up and through the fence.This tree was a fence line volunteer before I was here on this site.

Barnred, if you can, do yourself and your neighbors a favor...remove all the pines and plant a more attractive ornamental. Perhaps one of the smaller cultivars of Japanese Cryptomeria. Evergreen, attractive and fairly rapid in growth. Only drawback (maybe) is that people will be coming to you asking what kind of tree it is and where they can get one. Here is info on this species and its cultivars :
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/trees-new/cryptomeria_japonica.html

 

[pinus]

Guy, Photos of the broken, compromised area posted in this reply. Upon closer inspection the cause was basal girding by hog and barbed wire. It apparently grew up and through the fence.This tree was a fence line volunteer before I was here on this site.

Barnred, if you can, do yourself and your neighbors a favor...remove all the pines and plant a more attractive ornamental. Perhaps one of the smaller cultivars of Japanese Cryptomeria. Evergreen, attractive and fairly rapid in growth. Only drawback (maybe) is that people will be coming to you asking what kind of tree it is and where they can get one. Here is info on this species and its cultivars :
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/trees-new/cryptomeria_japonica.html

As you see, not the tree but ???? wire is the reason of the broaken
I dont see any reason to blame pines, Elmore
Japanese cryptomeria is not bad tree, as are not pines too. Fast growing, so the same probemls can start quicly, not the bugs, but root rot can damage this kind of trees also, IMO.

 

[Elmore]

As you see, not the tree but ???? wire is the reason of the broaken
I dont see any reason to blame pines, Elmore
Japanese cryptomeria is not bad tree, as are not pines too. Fast growing, so the same probemls can start quicly, not the bugs, but root rot can damage this kind of trees also, IMO.

Yeah...right...where the heck is Estonia anyway? <img src="http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/the_characters/images/icon_the_boss.gif">

 

[pinus]

Yeah...right...where the heck is Estonia anyway? <img src="http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/the_characters/images/icon_the_boss.gif">

Wery helpful link, probably about you?

Sorry, I don´t realized yours post as it probably was meant :alien:
Estonia is where Finland-Sweden-other baltic states, and begans Russia

 

[treeseer]

barnred, was the usc arborist certified? Did s/he climb the tree to investigate the crack? Did you or s/he expose the surface roots, or just guess at the damage? Thin pines can get thicker, wounded pines can seal. Did s/he lay out any management options that would decrease the risk? If not, you got what you paid for, which since it was a U person was nothing, right?

NCSU used to send out an entomologist to look at urban trees. His poorly informed opinions condemned many sound trees, and retained several unsound trees with no management recommendations. I hope your AR board looks more closely than your arborist apparently did.

pinus, your input is priceless and on the mark.

Elmore, I live where your link came from. Those cryptomeria are a major pain here. They were recommended by my mentor as a good replacement for leylandii, but they have the same problem of getting too wide. Plus they have issues with sporadic and disfiguring branch and twig death (an unexplained bacterial (?) disease). Yoshino is the only affordable one, and it would be a poor choice for that location.
Re your pines, if they had been inspected when you bought the place, that wire may have been pulled out and the tree safely retained. Put simply (and I hope not too harshly), your pine fell over due to your own ignorance and neglect.

 

[barnred]

Err,
yes he is a certified arborist,yes we paid him and yes he inspected the trees thoroughly and err no,dont believe he has a side specialty in entomology.Frankly a little suprised that you so adamantly condemn his observations having not had an opportunity to inspect,climb or do much more than as you put it guess at what you see in the photograph yourself.

 

[treeseer]

Sorry if I confused things; I was condemning Elmore because he's a friend!
The entomologist was from NC not SC.

Err, yes he inspected the trees thoroughly .

OK, then he has told you, how deep is the crack? How long?

How many buttresses are wounded, how wide are the wounds, how close to the trunk?

Has the soil profile changed? How compacted is it, and how deep is the A horizon?

What treetment options did he recommend?

You've heard good advice from pinus and Duffer.

 

[Elmore]

Sorry if I confused things; I was condemning Elmore because he's a friend!.

Ahh....friendships...aren't they a wonderful thing?
Wait...let me turn the other cheek. When you get through there I also have a couple more...go ahead...use your foot if it makes it easier for you.

 

[treeseer]

use your foot if it makes it easier for you. :

OK, try this for kicks: "remove all the pines and plant a more attractive ornamental"
Cheeky species bias at its most grim. Cmon Bamaman, on task or don't ask.

 

[infomet]

Yard Pines

No expert here, BUT I built my house mostly from pines like these that had grown large, some over 24", in people's yards. Fran woke them up and they decided to clean out. The tree guys were delighted to load 12-20 foot logs on my trailer to get rid of them. In those days they could hardly give the wood to mills because there was so much! I've had a hired Woodmizer do about 30KBF over the past few years, which includes all my hardwood floors and cabinetry.

Such trees are very inappropriate for yards as they get large. They are a sleazy developer's desperate attempt to make the best of their land. I have helped pull several off friends houses after ice and wind events. They grow tall and skinny in choked up wild stands, then the developer puts them out in the open and they are at much higher risk of overload.

I'd like to know if your "neighborhood company" (DON"T get me going on that one) will pay for the damage if they don't allow you to cut. Maybe you should go out some afternoon when everyone is at the beach and take care of the problem? There are some very good uses for electric saws!

Resist the idea that that brick wall will resist the large tree. Good luck,
Wilson

 

[treeseer]

Hey Wilson,

Are you near the Triangle?

Is your Woodmizer for hire?

Apex

 

[infomet]

Woodmizer Hire

Hi,
Hillsborough.
I don't have one....hired locally, but my guy is sick right now.
I know a couple in Clayton/Raleigh, so I expect we can find someone.
What do you need to cut?
I have a bunch of 2X6 I'd like to sell, as well as some oak boards.
Drop me an email.
Wilson

 

[Elmore]

If you do decide to cultivate and cherish these "field pines" here is what your lawn will likely look like around these trees. As you irrigate your grass these pine tend to produce surface roots. Enjoy.

 

[pinus]

Beautifull pines, Elmore!
It was be interesting to know what pine species they exactly are (latin name)?
The surface roots here are not surprise for me. The human rakenig of fallen leafs retards the development of humus and causes soil erosion. However, if not damage the roots bark, pine roots are not very suspective to the infection with funguses, IMO. Adding periodically a some layer of soft mulch around trees can improve the situation, I think.

Infomet, here is a very common practise to thin a forest (pine) stand and build new houses there (personally I dont like this practice, becaese the beautyfull forests are ruined so). During the thinning only proper, health and strong trees are preserved. Only in the case of unfortunate soil condidtions our pines are susceptible to the windfall. The problem of tree trunk weakness is coming a serious problem if the stand was dense and unmantained before this.
v.

 

[treeseer]

The surface roots here are not surprise for me. The human rakenig of fallen leafs retards the development of humus and causes soil erosion. However, if not damage the roots bark, pine roots are not very suspective to the infection with funguses, IMO. Adding periodically a some layer of soft mulch around trees can improve the situation, I think.
v.

Elmore, are you listening? the only problem that those roots cause is for turf-huggers, who belong on ************, not here. Why in the world would any rational being feel compelled to strip away the pine's natural mulch just to culture turfgrass there?

They're loblollies, right Elmore? Pinus taeda.
I'd aerate and plant blueberries between those roots. Adding 6-8" of soil with a lot of aged pine bark in it to make that possible would be a net benefit for the trees.

 

[barnred]

Just an update to the original post in this thread.Our architectural review board decided having been presented with our experts reccommendations that they would like to independantly seek a second opinion.
They hired their own arborist ( one who had previously treated these trees for pine beetle as it happens)and his reccommendation was also to remove the largest two trees.In his judgement he felt there was at least a 30% chance of wind throw.Our home being within 15ft of these two trees makes that a clearly unacceptable risk.We now plan to remove these two trees and replant with 2 of a more suitable species that can grow to their full potential healthily and safely.It is proving somewhat difficult to find the "perfect "species as the lot is so small .The distance between the house and sidewalk is 25'.We have to replant with 2 trees of 3" diameter.However they can be of different species.I have visited a couple of smaller nurseries asking advice and so far the best suggestion appears to be a dogwood or cherry tree.Any advice very welcome.

 

[Sheshovel]

OK tree's that are considered small 20' to 35' tall for your area are as follows..I will give you common names only for this..Japanese Maple/Strawberry Tree/American Smoke Tree/Hawthorn species/Loquat/Common Fig/Dahoon/Possum Haw/Yaupon/Crape Myrtle/Yellow Cucumber Tree/Oyama Magnolia/Crab Apple species/
Cherry species/Babylon Weeping Willow/Farkleberry/CommonJujuba or Chinese Date
This is just a list of trees under 35' for South Carolina,it may include trees that are not suitable for the area you plan to plant in.But might help
from the book-
Trees For Architecture and Landscape
by Robert L. Zion-This list is made up by
State Foresters and University Landscape Design professors.

 

[treeseer]

there was at least a 30% chance of wind throw. .We have to replant with 2 trees of 3" diameter.... the best suggestion appears to be a dogwood or cherry tree.Any advice very welcome.

I'd be very interested to know where the 30% figure comes from. I've never been able to put that kind of number on risk.

You need an upright, not a spreading tree, since there is little room. Dogwood and cherries would need some pruning to control spread, as would most of the selections on she's list. Not a deal-breaker, but a consideration.

I hate to recommend crepemyrtle because it is so common, but it may fit well in there. Also look at shrubs like osmanthus to block views. Above all, don't feel constrained to planting just 2 trees. Plant a landscape, AFTER the soil is made suitable for plant growth.

I'm sorry the builder's reckless destruction caused you this upheaval and expense.

 

[barnred]

Thanks treeseer, my husband and i are also very sorry to be removing such aged trees.Unfortunatly it seems at least in this area that blatant disregard for conservation of large trees on building sites is the norm.A piece of orange plastic tied around the trunk is the general extent of protection!
Yes,Crepe myrtle would fit well there.We have one further back on the same strip.I shall also be looking into the trees mentioned on shes list to see if there is one in particular that we could work with.I will update once weve made a choice.Unfortunatly im not sure there is much more room on our site for any further additions ,we already have 2 sycamores,2 pines (left) 1 magnolia,1holly and 1 crepe myrtle as well as the 2 yet to be decideds on a pretty small plot.I would however be very grateful treeseer if you could elaborate on how to make the soil suitable for regrowth.We are very interested in making the best of this bad situation.