Help w/Tree Value & Neighbor?

[JenBerte]

Two nights ago my neighbor called me to "ask" if he could come on my property to cut the tree down that grows on my property but hangs over his hedge. It's shading his pool (which has been there about 4 years) and since it's on his property he thinks he has the right to cut the tree back to the property line (leaving me with about a 5' stump). I said I needed to think about it and he said he was going to do it "tomorrow".

I got upset.

Needless to say in the last two days I've talked to our local police, City Council, my personal attorney, the neighbor of course, an arborist from a local community, and the area DNR forester.

I've come to the conclusion that I need to know approximately what this tree is worth. It's not ideal by any means...it grows at an angle (there was a large maple next to it that unfortunately had to come down this winter due to some bad storm damage)...but other than that it's a healthy tree. I had some people who claimed to be arborists come today to look at it...they told me it had NO value. I'm not convinced. The forester is coming but not until the 26th...I'm not sure what my next move should be...it may not be the ideal tree and it may not shade my property...but it does add to the aesthetics of the neighborhood...it helps dampen noise from the nearby highway, it adds to my "treed" view out the back window, and it reduces air pollution...I don't want to cut it down.

I'm going to try to attach a pic...what should be my next move in an attempt to get a value? (I plan to either ask the neighbor to pay for the tree in exchange for permission to cut it down OR to put in a new tree and wait for it to be securely established 2+ years and then cut the other down...I also want to know a # incase I come home next week to find it nothing but a stump...)

 

[whitenack]

Unfortunately for you, it doesn't look like you have much legal ground to stand on (unless IA laws are different from KY laws).

Any part of a tree that crosses his boundary line is legally his. So, according to the pic, he owns more of the tree than you do. It just happens to be rooted in your yard.

I'd save the relationship with your neighbor, allow him onto your property to cut down his tree, back up a few feet (where the old maple was), and plant a better quality tree.

Otherwise, you can bar him from trespassing on your property, but that would just mean that they would cut the tree at the point at which it crosses into his yard, which would leave about an unattractive 8 foot stump on the edge of your property.

 

[DDM]

Most situations like this they call in a bucket truck and remove the part where it crosses the line.I'd say 95% of this tree belongs to your neighbor.Or this could be reversed on you since your claiming the tree and if it ever fell on his property
you would be held liable and your insurance wont pay if "Your tree" falls on your neighbors property.I would say it's a liability to your neighbor.

 

[JenBerte]

My understanding is that he can trim branches but he cannot kill the tree...cutting it off and leaving a stump would certainly kill it. Willful injury then says he'd be liable for the value of the tree. I realize it may need to come down and we haven't absolutely told him we won't consider it. I just want some time to investigate. If he does it without my permission in the meantime, I need to know what the tree is worth...I'm attempting to find someone in my area to look at it...I'm curious if it's truly possible it has NO value? I thought that seemed extreme to me even though it's not an ideal situation for a tree.

 

[ASD]

have your attorney check the law in your state. here in Communist CA. a tree is personal property and you can not touch it with out written permission from the owner "neighbor". if you do it's considered some thing like vandalism "a willful act" and the perpetrator is liable for the "replacement cost of the tree" an that would include:

removing the damaged tree

removing the tree stump and roots

installing a new tree of the same size and type

repairing all landscaping

maintaining the tree until it's established

and all other cost that are a direct result of their act

But y don't you be a nice person and let your neighbor's remove the tree/stump "at no cost to you" so they can enjoy their yard.

 

[whitenack]

My understanding is that he can trim branches but he cannot kill the tree...

I've heard this also, and believe it to be true, but I have to believe there are certain limits to that law.

For instance, what if this tree were a massive oak tree, and had much more of a lean than this current tree does. Lets say it grew off at a 45* angle into his yard, and covered his entire yard. Is he forced to live with this undesirable tree? Does he not have a right to decide what is in his yard and what is not?

Obviously this extreme example is not the case in your situation, but I think this shows that your neighbor has a right to decide what is in his yard and what is not.

It would be worth fussing about if it were a high quality tree. If this was a 100 year old white oak that gave your yard shade and your property a higher value, that would be one thing. But actually, this is not a very good looking tree, and I think it actually detracts from your yard.

Count it as a blessing that he is willing to take it down for you. I have the exact same situation you do. I have an ugly, split trunk water maple that sits on the property line. My neighbor (little old lady) has been bugging me for a couple years to cut it down. She says it constantly sheds limbs into her yard and the roots are encroaching on her foundation and flowerbeds. I would love it if she would offer to pay for its removal.

If you absolutely are set in your ways that this guy owes you something (in addition to the money he is paying to remove an ugly tree from your yard), I'd say no more than $100-150 is all. That's about the price of a quality ball and burlapped tree in our area.

 

[whitenack]

here in Communist CA. a tree is personal property and you can not touch it with out written permission from the owner "neighbor".

Even the parts of the tree that are over the property line?

Wow. What about a tree that starts growing into your house? A limb that starts rubbing against the gutters, or tapping on your windows?

Man, I love living in KY. We don't even have to ask. We can just take a saw and go to work on it whenever the mood strikes.

 

[JenBerte]

Our attorney said IA code does not allow him to kill or "willfully injure" the tree or he could be liable for up to treble damages.

We are certainly attempting to work toward a peaceful solution that will I'm sure someday result in removing the tree. I just don't want it done NOW. I just took out that big maple and would like a summer season so see exactly what the landscape is going to look like...I'd also like to get another tree established farther into my yard before the tree is removed.

I don't see this as unreasonable nor do I think it's "not nice." His approach was very un-neighborly and I'm doing my best not to respond in a similar fashion. In the meantime I'm attempting to get all my information together so he too knows what we are dealing with...

The pictures aren't the best...they were taken at about 6:30 in the morning and the trees have quite a ways to go before they are fully leafed for the year...

He's had the pool for at least 4 years; the trees been there longer than either of us. Does one more season seem like too much to ask to insure I've got at least one more tree firmly established?

 

[whitenack]

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051117/EDIT01/511170317/1020/EDIT

http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/trees.html

I do see on other websites where it says that no willful damage can be done to a tree, or you will be liable to replace the tree. However (and this is just wondering out loud), when can you ever cut roots back to a property line and there not be damage to the tree?

ETA Also keep in mind that appraisal fees, lawyer fees and court costs will more than likely be more than the value of that tree.

 

[ASD]

Even the parts of the tree that are over the property line?

Wow. What about a tree that starts growing into your house? A limb that starts rubbing against the gutters, or tapping on your windows?QUOTE]

what part of

"you can not touch it with out written permission from the owner "neighbor"

dident you understand

most people are cool about it but if they want to be an a$$ the courts have found that trees have no brain their for they (the tree) can not willfully damage your property so the tree can grow where it want's to

 

[JenBerte]

This would be a no brainer for me if the tree were close to a structure or likely to be damaging anything soon. I'd take it down myself without hesitation...I guess my neighbor and I have significantly different priorities...I feel that aesthetic value and a more natural neighborhood are more important than a tan at the moment.

 

[rebelman]

Just a thought. You could try pruning the tree. Have a pro take it back to the vee. This is a high percentage of foliage(and should be done in midwinter or midsummer), but would much reduce the percentage over your neighbor, the tree would seem much more upright. And, as so often happens all parties are pleased. You could also consider mulching your root zone(s) and is that a stub toward your roof? No-No. Like the others said, don't let this cause hard feelings. Trees can bring people together.

 

[JenBerte]

That's a great thought! Maybe we could do that in conjunction with the agreement of leaving it there for a couple of years. We could plant another much farther into our yard...if the tree appears to grow much more upright after the trim, maybe he won't want to remove it later. Is it likely to survive such drastic trimming?

 

[whitenack]

I feel that aesthetic value and a more natural neighborhood are more important than a tan at the moment.

I agree with you there.

Have a pro take it back to the vee.

I like this idea too.

Get an agreement with your neighbor to prune down to the vee for now. If, in a few years (negotiate a timeline), he still wants the tree completely removed, comply with his wishes.

That will buy you some time to establish a backup tree.

I'd say the tree will survive the prune. I've seen trees completely topped and come back in a year or so. Not very pretty, but it does survive.

And even if it doesn't survive, at least you gave it a shot, as opposed to having it cut to the ground to begin with.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Keith42]

tree

Where i live in Mo, any tree limbs that hang over into the neighbors property can be cut. I will also say this... i personally do not like the way the tree grows from looking at your pics, it is leaning waaay too much toward your neighbor, will also be a liability for YOU if the tree decides to take the big plunge!! Tree also looks bad next to your (or his) hedge. Let HIM cut the darn thing, go buy yourself a nice oak, re-plant and be HAPPY

 

[treeseer]

Jan as I read the thread I saw that you got some good information, some arborphphobic nonsense ("Cut it down, it's ugly")??, and some aesthetic judgments that are out of place. Our opinions of the tree's appearance based on a picture on our screens is not worth much. TreeCo Dan if that was shooting from the hip I'd say you have a bad case of sciatica.:hmm3grin2orange:

rebelman's got the right idea but I would not take it all the way down to the v necessarily. If the lower 4 branches on the right are removed and the upper part of that lead is lightly pruned, your neighbor will be much less aggrieved by the 'nuisance' (really an inconvenience) and the neighborhood will retain the tree.

As a tree owner you have rightrs. You can try Jeff Iles at ISU for his take on this. There are no ASCA members in Iowa. If you want a tele-appraisal, pm me with details. Be certain of the lot line; flag its location on the hedge and retake pictures . Maybe your neighbor does not own the entire crown.

 

[treeseer]

How many experts did you talk to before removing your big maple?....and where are those experts now that you need expert advice?

Good questions--it seems Dan's aim is better when shooting from the other hip. But the questions seems to be rhetorical. My guess is that no arborist looked at the storm damage, just the fool who just told her that the leaner had no value. Wood ticks have no tool but a saw, so every tree is first and foremost a potential removal. As they suck the arboreal blood from our communities, deforestation disease, worse than Lime or RMS fever, hurts the health of all.

Take care of that sciatica good buddy.

 

[JenBerte]

Thank you treeseer...I too have been getting the feeling that the people around here think about cutting down first and the health of the neighborhood later. We are fortunate to live in an older area of our small town (5000) and we do have quite a few mature trees...not to mention you need not go far out of town to find wooded areas...therefore many people don't think twice about cutting them down.

I like my trees and appreciate very much what they do for the community...I wasn't aware of some of the finer details of keeping them healthy...I'll have to read up!

We've only lived in this house for 2.5 years and part of the reason we bought it was the yard...now nothing like it was. (oh well, things change...)

I'm uploading two photos of the tree that was damaged. The main reason we decided to remove the entire thing after the storm was because of the rot we saw in the limb that fell...in addition to the fact that it had many dead branches in the canopy. It was very large and endangered about every structure around it. I cried the day we cut it down all the same. The man who cut it down (and his wife) are "arborists" and are the ones who looked at my leaner the other day. Go figure... He was very good at taking down the big maple a chunk at a time though! Fascinating to watch...

My dad also does a fair amount of cutting for his two wood burning stoves but rarely in residential areas and even more rarely living trees.

At any rate these aren't the best pics but the only ones I have in digital format....

Oh yeah I forgot to mention...the other broken limb on the damaged tree was there when we moved in and we've since learned that it (the big maple that's now gone) was struck by lighting twice when the previous owners lived here (according to our neighbor).

 

[treeseer]

The rot you saw was in an included fork. Could have been mitigated abefore by tip pruning and/or cabling. Pruning off the torn stub may have been all the tree needed. It is common to have inner dead branches in the crowns of trees; they have been shaded out by the outer crown, that's all. Nature's way.

An arborist is skilled in the care of trees. A tree cutter is skilled in the cutting of trees. Nothing wrong with that, but the usefulness, and marketability, of that skill is declining, while the need and market for arborists is growing. :help:

"the big maple that's now gone was struck by lighting twice when the previous owners lived here (according to our neighbor)."

Is this the same hysterical gentleman who is threatening to cut down your tree? Not too sure about his credibility...I've seen all kind of maladies blamed on lightning; few of them actually caused by lightning.:deadhorse:

 

[JenBerte]

Yes, it was the same obsessive neighbor who told us about the lightning...I'm sure while I was sitting in my living room sobbing as the tree was coming down he was sitting over there jumping up and down with joy and picking his next target...he's a bit OCD about his yard...uses a leaf blower to clean the leaves off his lawn EVERY DAY in the fall...(we rake and clean but only twice or so...it's FALL for goodness sake!) He also scalps his lawn when he mows while we try to keep ours at a good 3" length -- better for the grass...I'm sure it thinks we are messy.

To get back to those pics...the ones of the big maple are taken from the west from our back window...the others of the leaner are taken from closer to our back lot line looking the other way. The front and south side of our house are a whole other view -- altogether we have about 12 or so mature trees left on the property...its just that many of them are not in the back....