How important is taper in a roof shingle?

[Jesse snowden]

So I'm doing a home remodel and a new roof is the first thing. I have a buddy with 5 acres of western red cedar and he wants it all cleared. So that means I have access to all the raw material I need to roofing, siding, decking and whatever else I need. But it has to be milled!!

Without going into details just yet of the WHOLE process I need this one question answered. Can I cut square 1/2 inch thick cedar shingles and get the same lifespan as a shingle that is 5/8 on one end and 1/8 on the other?

Thanks!

 

[BC WetCoast]

I believe non-tapered shakes are called barn shakes, because they don't give the same finished looks as tapered. If they are split, they are shakes, if they are sawn, they are shingles. I believe they would have a similar lifespan.

http://www.swforest.com/products/barn-shakes/
http://www.woodroof.com/products/ce...hakes/red-cedar-24-straight-split-barn-shakes

 

[mohick]

Who cares without being treated they are the biggest fire trap in the world. Lots on insurance won't even cover them !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JeffGu]

Shakes are tapered so that they will lay correctly and the overlap will seal when the shingles swell up when it is raining. Wood shingles require little or no taper because they are much thinner.
As previously mentioned, you may not be able to insure the house... and in some areas building codes don't allow their use at all. They require regular maintenance and repair, which very few people are willing to do, and the roof deck preparation is critical. Shakes are normally installed on either purlins or spaced board sheathing, because they need to "breathe" (require airflow underneath of them) to prevent them from rotting. For modern, solid sheathing roof decks this means a substantial underlayment (we used modified bitumen) then horizontal purlins. The shakes must be hand nailed. There are good reasons for a roof with #1 cedar shakes costing so much to have installed.

 

[rarefish383]

Get a copy of the Fox Fire books. They show how to make wood shingles. If I can find the pic, I'll post it, Joe.

 

[Jesse snowden]

I've figured out a fairly simple process for both straight cut and tapered cut shingles. But the straight cut is much much faster and easier to cut, which is why I ask. This is what my first test batch looks like.

 

[mohick]

Happy home fire!! Enjoy!!

 

[Jesse snowden]

Hey thanks!

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

The house I rented in Idaho had wood shingles on the roof of the shed and house.

Made me real nervous working in the shed with anything that made spark or flame!
The landlord replaced both roofs after a yr or so and I kept a but for the firepit. It burNed like a 2 yr old Christmas tree. Scary!

 

[Jesse snowden]

Does anyone here know of flame retardant coatings for exterior use? Since you all are so concerned with my safety, I can at least look into treating the roof.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Cedar shingle roofs are very common around here, especially at the McMansion level. The real mansions usually have flat roofs and the regular houses have asphalt shingles because they are more affordable. We don't have an epidemic of fires caused by sparks on the roof. If I was in Cali or places where wildfires are more common, then I would be more nervous. Depends on the climate.

Like a lot of issues on this board, the fear mongers speak out of a perception of danger/fear with no actual experience with the issue.

There are many flame retardant chemicals available for cedar shingles. Do a google search.

The Cedar Shake and Shingle Bureau, which is a trade association, has lots of information on the product.
http://www.cedarbureau.org/

 

[Jesse snowden]

Ah-ha! The voice of reason rings through the dark night at last. Lol

Driving around my area you can clearly see you are indeed correct, but I didn't want to shut down any responses just yet. I've contacted the CSSB and am waiting for a response. And have already talked to my city building code/permit office and the local fire marshal on the subject. Both said it is in no way required or terribly common to treat cedar roofing or siding with anything but your usual water-based stain.

Keep in mind ya'll I'm in everett washington, 2 miles from the ocean, very damp, in a city with roughly .5 acres lots and no trees within 30 feet of my house. Fire on my roof is very low on my list of worries.

 

[IyaMan]

I've figured out a fairly simple process for both straight cut and tapered cut shingles. But the straight cut is much much faster and easier to cut, which is why I ask. This is what my first test batch looks like.

In both my work and on my house I constantly use unfamiliar materials and methods. I find it enjoyable to do something new, but one thing I've learned when doing something for the first time is to do a thorough test/prototype.

My recommendation would be to do either a small separate portion of the house first (like a porch or alcove), or do an alternate smaller building like a shed. Do it with the same method and material that you intend to use on the main project. Upon doing it, you may find that you will need to alter your original plan. So do not cut the shingles for the whole roof until you complete this test project.

What looks good on paper, or in your head, or even with a few pieces in your hand, may not come out in reality the same way. And if you don't find out until after cutting the couple thousand shingles you need that they should have been slightly bigger/longer/thicker or any other difference, you'll regret it. (also, in doing a practice project you will probably discover a more efficient method, and save yourself a lot of time, energy and/or money)

 

[BC WetCoast]

In both my work and on my house I constantly use unfamiliar materials and methods. I find it enjoyable to do something new, but one thing I've learned when doing something for the first time is to do a thorough test/prototype.

My recommendation would be to do either a small separate portion of the house first (like a porch or alcove), or do an alternate smaller building like a shed. Do it with the same method and material that you intend to use on the main project. Upon doing it, you may find that you will need to alter your original plan. So do not cut the shingles for the whole roof until you complete this test project.

What looks good on paper, or in your head, or even with a few pieces in your hand, may not come out in reality the same way. And if you don't find out until after cutting the couple thousand shingles you need that they should have been slightly bigger/longer/thicker or any other difference, you'll regret it. (also, in doing a practice project you will probably discover a more efficient method, and save yourself a lot of time, energy and/or money)

Cedar shingles are not an unfamiliar material or method in this region. They have been used for over 100 years, longer than ashphalt shingles. In this region, slate or thatch would be considered an unfamiliar material.

 

[IyaMan]

Cedar shingles are not an unfamiliar material or method in this region.

Sorry, didn't mean that cedar shingles were not common in the pacific northwest.

I meant that if they appear unfamiliar to the guy building with them. Seems like he'll be doing this alone and I suppose he wouldn't be asking this stuff if he was familiar with it all. So I just tried to recommend that he start small, develop a learning curve, and see what works best for him without getting partway into the project with no experience and realizing that he would have been better off doing it differently.

 

[Jesse snowden]

That is great advice, and thank you my workshop is a detached garage that needs a little roof work and I also planned on building a covered front porch which would be a perfect test roof as well. I can change my mind and go a different route twice before actually tearing the roof off my house! Knowing my limitations is just as important as knowing my strengths, words to live by. Thanks

 

[TimberWolf530]

Happy home fire!! Enjoy!!

OK, you got your two little snide remarks in. Now would care to explain why this type of shingle when painted or stained, is any more a fire hazard than any other type of wood shingle or siding?

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Are you putting the shingles around the chimney too?

I know a guy that burned his house down that way. Sparks coming out from the stove fell on the roof and it caught on fire.

They make high end shingles that are metal but look like shingles, just a thought.

My parents had their house and garage sided in shingles (shingle mill like 5 miles from them). After many years (25+) they had to remove it, few insurance companies would even consider it and none would insure with that plus heating with a wood furnace. (Insurance co's consider wood heating high risk).

So just some thoughts.

 

[blades]

for the Negative comment people : Ever watch asphalt shingles burn? A properly applied and cared for Cedar shake roof can out last the asphalt types ( particularly GAF products of late) . I have seen a few roofs with metal shingles seem to be holding up ok . I pass a place everyday that some type of shingle on it new to me as it has a sheen to it and no gravel on them. always mean to stop and inquire . I know there are some newer composite types out, don't know a lot about them. Got about 10 years yet before needing more education on the subject.

 

[mohick]

They are not any worse than any wood shingle they are all tender boxes thus the reason any thing but a fly by night insurance company won't touch them !!!!!!!!!