How much back lean can you overcome withe wedges?

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You did well, to answer your first question, that tree looked wedge-able from the lead on the stump, however not seeing the balance of the canopy ................either way you got it. Nice stump.
 
Nice looking setup and well thought out. Any special reason for the bore cut?
For some reason I always use a bore cut unless it's a small tree. I feel I have more control over the fell. More time to think and more time to look up if something is going wrong. I like how I can get wedges in before I start the back cut.
 
You did well, to answer your first question, that tree looked wedge-able from the lead on the stump, however not seeing the balance of the canopy ................either way you got it. Nice stump.
Your probably right. But everyone here gave the good advice to run a line. 20 minutes of set up to prevent a catastrophe is the right choice . If time was an issue and I was a pro, I probably would have wedged it
 
nice, now to always keep the wood pile higher, before you leave the site plant 5 or more trees for the next generation.
I would. But this guy wants them gone. He has a very wet property and the trees make it worse. Guess he wants the trees gone to try and dry it up.
 
For some reason I always use a bore cut unless it's a small tree. I feel I have more control over the fell. More time to think and more time to look up if something is going wrong. I like how I can get wedges in before I start the back cut.
I bore cut more often than not too. You certainly have MUCH more control of the tree. It is also a better way to set wedges. Even more so on both cases with leaning trees.
 
I'm always too worried about a pinched bar or the tree bust apart before the fell. The biggest reason I use it all the time is because I like being away from the tree on the last cut, not right up on it. I don't remember the last time I made a straight back cut right to the hindge. I suppose of I had a tree larger then my bar,
 
I do a lot of pullovers on property, hazard trees and leaners. While it's very case by case, here's a rough breakdown of how I go about it;

Assess the tree for solidity. You're own experience counts here. For me its a visual, sounding with the back of an axe or hammer, in rare cases make a vertical borecut right down low to see how it is. Consider all the usual stuff; hangers, likely snapouts, debris fallout, escape route etc.

Figure the weight and how much pulling power I need. It's not as easy as it seems to assess the weight on a big heavy leaner, but a plumb bob is a good start for complex trees. All your gear needs to carry all that weight in the worst case scenario (hinge fails)

Set ropes. It's often just a single line, high up but not too high if it's a dead top that can snap out. If the tree has side lean also I'll set a side pull to counter that, particularly if the tree is dead or brittle.

Work out my rigging. I prefer mechanical advantage over winches, and use a vehicle only as a last resort because they're too unreliable. Speed is often less important than control. I'll often end up with stacked 2:1's or 3:1's. Very few trees will need more than 12:1 with 1 or 2 men on the rope pulling. I like to use progress capture on my final pulley (prussik or camming pulley) so the guys can't "lose it". Remember to stack your gear with the strongest ropes and pulleys at the business end of the system.

Pre-tension your ropes. If there's a side pull, I'll start with that. Stand a good distance off and perpendicular to the pulley (standing in the lay) and have someone tension that side pull as you watch the top. Take up only just enough tension for the top to move a few inches. The camming pulley/progress capture is critical to maintaining that tension with precision. The side weight has now been removed and the hinge has support. If it fails it will still swing with the side pull. Now go to the side and use the same procedure to tension the main pull. It's important not to overtension because you can setup a barber chair scenario. People with vehicles/winches often overtension.

Now cut your scarf. Mark it out with chalk if you need to, no shame in that. Take your time, make that scarf perfect. Have someone watch the far side if it's big/critical or you're not confident. It's going to be a mess if you have to re-cut it, so plan it out and get it right. You can use whatever face works, I'll often use a humboldt with a snipe to throw the tree a bit. The block out face with a snipe has a bit of extra flex for some trees and gives you very precise control on when she pops off the stump.

Make your back cut. I just make a straight back cut, setting wedges as I go. I cut slow, and keep an eye on the kerf. If it starts opening, you've got too much tension on your ropes and are in danger of barberchairing. Back off on the ropes. If it starts closing, no big deal. Just tension the ropes a *little* more. Keep progressing until you're happy with the size of the hinge. Don't overcut the hinge. Shut your saw off, put it away. The tree is held in place by the rope(s). Have the guys on the pull ropes start pulling her over. I'll usually stay and keep the wedges snug just in case. Sometimes I'm the guy on the pull rope, and the only guy there so I'll just leave a couple wedges in but not overpound them (you can snap out a brittle hinge!). Wedges add unnecessary risk in a pullover and should be used only for backup, not for wedging over.


That's the basic setup. Sounds complex but it's pretty straightforward in practice. There are endless variations - the side pull can be ahead or behind the tree for swing effects, you can take in or pay out as the tree goes over on the side pull also. On really bad trees I've used butt tie offs in some cases. The bore cut has it's place but I could see it being very easy to overtension since you've got no indication of tension without a back cut. The common recipe for disaster that I see is the use of a vehicle, poor communication and a big hurry. They overtension, make a messy face and sloppy back cut and the guy in the vehicle takes off too early and too fast. A good pullover doesn't need to happen in a hurry. You can have a cup of tea as it's coming over.

Shaun
 
Very good explanation . I have a little better understanding now. In my case I was alone and nobody was in my truck . I set a decent tension and left the truck where it was. Once cut through in the back I still had to give it a little knock with the wedge to get it over .

I see what your saying. There could be more variables in place to do a simple set up as I did . The next one I will have more questions
 
To add I never really thought of it till now but I suppose the reason I always use a bore cut is because I always fell trees from a forward lean. Either clearing lots or cutting in forests . I want the bore cut in those applications to prevent a barberchar .ive cut a few with back lean but did the truck pull method .
 
There was a good thread a while back on the no face variation of coos bay that'd be just the ticket for hard over leaners or stuff that may be thin on the face side from unseen damage inside that test bore chips show (that Shaun was talking about).
Good time to test these other ways is on stuff that isn't make or break or under the gun to get done.
 
And for you guys unfamiliar with the Coos Bay....


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I'm always too worried about a pinched bar or the tree bust apart before the fell. The biggest reason I use it all the time is because I like being away from the tree on the last cut, not right up on it. I don't remember the last time I made a straight back cut right to the hindge. I suppose of I had a tree larger then my bar,
Cutting a tree larger than your bar is a great time to use a bore cut. That was addressed earlier in the year: here
 
I've never used the coos bay nore heard of it. I can see why it would be used on forward leaners . I have a long way to go.
 
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