How to keep stumps from growing
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tshanefreeman
ArboristSite Operative
Che,
My personal findings with Roundup are that the degree of success is touch and go. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
However, what I have found is that best results are found when the chemical is applied direct to the outer circumference of the the stumps in question, that is after a fresh cut has been made. The live root system is still 'looking' for the shoot portion of the tree and as a result will draw upon liquid additives placed upon the cut portion of the stump. The center of the stump is in essence dead. Moreless serving as a rigid support for the tree. There is no longer any translocation taking place in this region. Therefore, the application of chemical in this area is moreless waisted. Yes, there will be some absorption through adjacent tissues, but I am a strong believer that chemicals should only be applied in the targeted area. We don't have to pollute the surrounding environment through excess runoff caused by heavy rains. Concentrated Roundup is lethal enough to kill any plant life in the surrounding vicinity if it were to come into foliar contact. In fact if applied to the freshly cut stump on a warm summers day, you can actually watch the liquid be translocated into the vessels/tracheids (depending on what type of plant material being treated). At least this way, you the applicator knows exactly where your chemical is going!
Another thing to keep in mind is that Roundup is extremely lethal on small plant life. The overall size of the plants root system dictates the success rate of the chemical application. When the shoot portion of the tree is removed, the plant is relying on its stored energy reserves to sustain life. As a result, you will and should notice a decline in the shoot production following subsequent application of Roundup. You are slowing killing off these areas of energy reserves. Therefore, as long as the applicator is aware that the process of killing the entire stump/root system is NOT a one time job, then the results should be satisfying.
My personal findings with Roundup are that the degree of success is touch and go. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
However, what I have found is that best results are found when the chemical is applied direct to the outer circumference of the the stumps in question, that is after a fresh cut has been made. The live root system is still 'looking' for the shoot portion of the tree and as a result will draw upon liquid additives placed upon the cut portion of the stump. The center of the stump is in essence dead. Moreless serving as a rigid support for the tree. There is no longer any translocation taking place in this region. Therefore, the application of chemical in this area is moreless waisted. Yes, there will be some absorption through adjacent tissues, but I am a strong believer that chemicals should only be applied in the targeted area. We don't have to pollute the surrounding environment through excess runoff caused by heavy rains. Concentrated Roundup is lethal enough to kill any plant life in the surrounding vicinity if it were to come into foliar contact. In fact if applied to the freshly cut stump on a warm summers day, you can actually watch the liquid be translocated into the vessels/tracheids (depending on what type of plant material being treated). At least this way, you the applicator knows exactly where your chemical is going!
Another thing to keep in mind is that Roundup is extremely lethal on small plant life. The overall size of the plants root system dictates the success rate of the chemical application. When the shoot portion of the tree is removed, the plant is relying on its stored energy reserves to sustain life. As a result, you will and should notice a decline in the shoot production following subsequent application of Roundup. You are slowing killing off these areas of energy reserves. Therefore, as long as the applicator is aware that the process of killing the entire stump/root system is NOT a one time job, then the results should be satisfying.
being involved with the farmers around the house, I can get round-up and stuff, but I have over 100 trees that I have cut, that is why I am looking for a solution or chemical I can apply and be done with the stumps and not fight re-growth every year. I have cross cut stumps and they still come back. That is why I want a reliable chemical solution to be done and over with the stumps and them be able to pull tem the next year or so after that.
tshanefreeman
ArboristSite Operative
Oldwild,
Question: Are you planning or intending to have all of these stumps pulled in the next year? If so, why are you concerned with ensuring that they are all dead?
The reason that I ask is that killing these trees is not the easiest task. Even if you have good results, you will most likely have the odd sprout coming up for a year or two. Yes, the overall amount of watersprouts will be significantly less, but some life with remain. I'm just wondering if the cost of treatment and the frustration of watching them sprout is worth the hastle when you fully intend of pushing them over or having them pulled out. Just wondering.....
Question: Are you planning or intending to have all of these stumps pulled in the next year? If so, why are you concerned with ensuring that they are all dead?
The reason that I ask is that killing these trees is not the easiest task. Even if you have good results, you will most likely have the odd sprout coming up for a year or two. Yes, the overall amount of watersprouts will be significantly less, but some life with remain. I'm just wondering if the cost of treatment and the frustration of watching them sprout is worth the hastle when you fully intend of pushing them over or having them pulled out. Just wondering.....
i will have to use my labor to remove the trees, and all I have for pulling is my truck. It will be hard enough on the truck pulling trees up to 8 or 10" out that I want to make the pulling easier with the stumps and roots dead. I can fill the holes from the stumps back in easily enough, but I don't have the equipment nor the money for any easy way outs! I can have the wife take the cordless drill and a few batteries and tell her just to drill a hole in each stump.......... them I apply the chemicals. 
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hi
I might be running a bit late on this subject but it's important to remember
1st
When poisoning stumps trees of the same species graft roots underground. You could poison the gum tree stump in your back yard and kill the back neighbours tree etc, so don't do it if similar species are nearby.
2nd
The other thing is its the outer cambium that houses the phloem, which is the transportation vessels to the roots, the heartwood if anything houses the zylem which transports water from the roots to the canopy. So, don't waste your time or chemicals applying poison to the heartwood. That's why suckers grow on the outside of the stump.
3rd
Palms are monocotyledons, once cut in the main trunk or base they're dead and will rot. Some clumping species may grow suckers.
4th
The first stage of compartmentalization when you cut that stump is the tree shutting down the transportation vessels, which means the vessels to the roots will be cut off. So you need to get that poison on straight after the cut. If you cut all the stumps down, then wander around, perhaps poison them an hour later you may have aready missed the boat.
5th
If you don't want to poison, due to grafting for example, get some thick black plastic and cover the stumps (preferable with soil on top), without sunlight no regrowth!
I always use undiluted Roundup to poison the stumps if required and it's a 100% kill every time providing you stick to the above. I do the final chainsaw cut, blow the sawdust off and spray the poison on. Add just a bit of dishwashing liquid to the Roundup because it helps it stick (a surfactant)
I might be running a bit late on this subject but it's important to remember
1st
When poisoning stumps trees of the same species graft roots underground. You could poison the gum tree stump in your back yard and kill the back neighbours tree etc, so don't do it if similar species are nearby.
2nd
The other thing is its the outer cambium that houses the phloem, which is the transportation vessels to the roots, the heartwood if anything houses the zylem which transports water from the roots to the canopy. So, don't waste your time or chemicals applying poison to the heartwood. That's why suckers grow on the outside of the stump.
3rd
Palms are monocotyledons, once cut in the main trunk or base they're dead and will rot. Some clumping species may grow suckers.
4th
The first stage of compartmentalization when you cut that stump is the tree shutting down the transportation vessels, which means the vessels to the roots will be cut off. So you need to get that poison on straight after the cut. If you cut all the stumps down, then wander around, perhaps poison them an hour later you may have aready missed the boat.
5th
If you don't want to poison, due to grafting for example, get some thick black plastic and cover the stumps (preferable with soil on top), without sunlight no regrowth!
I always use undiluted Roundup to poison the stumps if required and it's a 100% kill every time providing you stick to the above. I do the final chainsaw cut, blow the sawdust off and spray the poison on. Add just a bit of dishwashing liquid to the Roundup because it helps it stick (a surfactant)
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
There are many studies on the use of glyophosate as a stump paint. From my reading and personal experiance
- make application w/i 20 min of cutting
- use an oil based carrier such as hort oil or diesel
- apply to the cambial ring only, sapwood does not conduct down and is wasted material
- never use a consentrated product, the lable is the law, read it and apply accordingly. RTU formulations are usually too weak for this type of application.
- as our freind from Oz states, these products can translocate to other like plants. I've heard of aspen groves being wiped out from stump painting. In these cases, use an NAA product like Sucker-Stopper
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Crikey!
It's almost like reading another language, what is RTU formulations?
Also, what is a NAA product?
Use an oil based carrier such as hort oil, what's that? And what do you mix it into/with?
And what do you know about the use of Glyphosate for the job? Any good? Or do you guys get/use something else?
Believe me. We are miles behind you guys with regulations, rules etc, especially in Queensland where I live ... I reckon I'd be ancient before I saw the day that you couldn't use Roundup (in any concentration) to kill stuff.
For tree industry/workers we have no licencing, no registration, no qualifications required, no award for pay, no union, no safety card, no OH&S, etc etc etc. WE ARE TOTALLY UNREGULATED! When I first moved up here to Queensland I called it "Cowboy County"
It's almost like reading another language, what is RTU formulations?
Also, what is a NAA product?
Use an oil based carrier such as hort oil, what's that? And what do you mix it into/with?
And what do you know about the use of Glyphosate for the job? Any good? Or do you guys get/use something else?
Believe me. We are miles behind you guys with regulations, rules etc, especially in Queensland where I live ... I reckon I'd be ancient before I saw the day that you couldn't use Roundup (in any concentration) to kill stuff.
For tree industry/workers we have no licencing, no registration, no qualifications required, no award for pay, no union, no safety card, no OH&S, etc etc etc. WE ARE TOTALLY UNREGULATED! When I first moved up here to Queensland I called it "Cowboy County"
Stumper
One Man Band
Ekka,Sounds like a little piece of heaven down there! Oldwild was right about the "ready to use" formulations-as John indicates they are too diluted for efficacy. The wording of the NAA term is escaping me at the moment but he is talking about growth inhibiting plant hormones.
tshanefreeman
ArboristSite Operative
RTU simply expands to mean 'Ready to Use'. Such brands are typically diluted too much.........mostly to be safe for the home applicator. Round-up Transorb in it's concentrated form is far more versatile simply because the applicator can dilute to their desired concentration.
NAA, otherwise referred to 'as naphthaleneacetic acid,' is the scientific abbreviation for synthetic 'auxin' which is a plant growth regulator (formerly referred to as hormones). This definition was changed sometime ago when it was realized that for NAA to be classified as a hormone it would have to be synthesized by the plant and not through artificial means. When applied to the cambial region of a stump, the reaccurance of watersprouts and suckers are greatly reduced and their overall size are also reduced.
Glyphosates is chemical agent which makes up and gives Round-up Transorb its kick!
As for the addition of horticultural carriers...........I just want to check on something first.............I don't want to be jumped on if I off a bit!
NAA, otherwise referred to 'as naphthaleneacetic acid,' is the scientific abbreviation for synthetic 'auxin' which is a plant growth regulator (formerly referred to as hormones). This definition was changed sometime ago when it was realized that for NAA to be classified as a hormone it would have to be synthesized by the plant and not through artificial means. When applied to the cambial region of a stump, the reaccurance of watersprouts and suckers are greatly reduced and their overall size are also reduced.
Glyphosates is chemical agent which makes up and gives Round-up Transorb its kick!
As for the addition of horticultural carriers...........I just want to check on something first.............I don't want to be jumped on if I off a bit!
tshanefreeman
ArboristSite Operative
Well JPS can add to or correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when dealing with chemical additives such as glyphosates or NAA, the applicator will run into a translocation problem. Studies have shown that when applying such regulators, the immediate location shows results, however, those adjacent areas are seldom effected. This means that the applicator must adequately apply to all cambial areas in order to have the greatest chance for success. As a result, if the applicator were to combine the product with a oil based carrier such as horticultural oil or diesel fuel, the chances for greater translocation and success would improve. The carrier binds to that of the growth regulator and carries it further into the stump. Therefore, reducing the reaccurances of sprouts and subsequent applications.
tshanefreeman
ArboristSite Operative
I also meant to appologise for re-defining 'Oldwilds' explanation for the abbreviation RTU. Guess we were both thinking the same thing at the same time. Turns out you were quicker at the draw!
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
You don't get translocation effects with the NAA, from my experiance it is pretty local. You can use it on Populus root suckers in turf w/o effecting the parent plant. That is if used per lable, I've read that stunting of top growth can occure if using it to control basal sprouts on ornimentals. I use it frequently on malus and tillia. It allso has some effect on Shubert cherry's horrific suckering, though you need to apply regularly and it gets pricey.
Oil based carriers will help glyphosate products stay on a stem w/o breaking down and increases the efficacy of the application. On fall stump paints I've seen 80-95% total kill on common buckthorn and taratarian honeysuckle.
Glyphosate is the generic name for the active ingediant in most of the TVK products (total vegitation killer)
Oil based carriers will help glyphosate products stay on a stem w/o breaking down and increases the efficacy of the application. On fall stump paints I've seen 80-95% total kill on common buckthorn and taratarian honeysuckle.
Glyphosate is the generic name for the active ingediant in most of the TVK products (total vegitation killer)
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Ekka said:
When you run into a lot of terms you're not sure of, just use a regular internet search to find them. It's how i got a lot of my education.
Search on Glyphosate
search on invasive plants
I like DogPile, because it's a meta engine, using several different engines to show hits.
coffeecraver
ArboristSite Operative
tomreeve said:
tomreeve is correct about the Garlon,he just spelled it wrong.
Garlon 4 is the best thing to kill stumps with,it should be applied to a fresh cut.
Active Ingredient: triclopyr
Features
Control of shrubs, brush, hardwoods and broadleaf weeds
Ester formulation provides control of tough waxy species and volunteer pines
Provides flexible, year-round application options including basal bark and cut stump
Tank-mix compatibility (as directed on label)
Available in returnable, refillable containers through Continuum™ Prescription Control & Container Management System
Cut Stump
Herbicide is sprayed on cut surfaces to eliminate or greatly reduce resprouts – individual plant treatment.
Should be employed every time a tree is cut down and the stump isn’t removed.
Leaves no brush "skeletons."
Helps protect mechanical cutting investment.
Use year-round except when snow or water prevent spraying to the ground level.
Low-profile.
http://www.dowagro.com/ivm/forestry/prod/stump.htm
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Sometimes it is good to subscribe to the thinking, "if you can't beat em, join em."
In otherwords, if you want to be really creative and see a tree grow real fast, isolate one healthy shoot off the stump and cut off all the others. Having a large established root system already you can cultivate a stem to suit anyone, sorta like treeart.
John
In otherwords, if you want to be really creative and see a tree grow real fast, isolate one healthy shoot off the stump and cut off all the others. Having a large established root system already you can cultivate a stem to suit anyone, sorta like treeart.
John
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Gypo Logger said:
Common practice with nursery stock. If it's not a grafted cv. and it's damaged or poorly structured, then basal prune and allow to regenerate.
How does basal regeneration work for timber development? I know it is used for pulpwood, do they manage coppices for hardwoods?
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Hi John, around here it seems that Red Oak and Soft Maple develope multiple stems from previous stumps and are managed to a certain degree. Either the best, worst, or all stems get sawn off.
Basal area was always something I never consciously went by, but rather tried to create approx. 5 ft. between crowns and/or 25 ft. between dominant stems depending on dia.
John
Basal area was always something I never consciously went by, but rather tried to create approx. 5 ft. between crowns and/or 25 ft. between dominant stems depending on dia.
John
jason j ladue
Vanilla Snoop
salt peter is the stuff they put in cigarettes so they dont go out after thy have been lit. drill three 3/4"holes, 3-4"deep into 1' stump. place the chemical in the holes.bury it, and no more stump.
or tnt. you might want a borer and a good working relationship w/your neighbors for this second suggestion...enchanced living through chemistry
or tnt. you might want a borer and a good working relationship w/your neighbors for this second suggestion...enchanced living through chemistry
