How to train groundies for using a Port-a-wrap?

[pdqdl]

I am having trouble teaching my groundmen how to "let it run" using the port-a-wrap. Quite frankly, I don't find it that easy to figure out the right number of wrap for the appropriate friction myself.

Right now, when we need to let a log run with a gentle stop, I am telling the guys to lay the rope in their loose grip, let the rope begin to fall, and gradually squeeze the rope until it stops. I try to make sure that they have gloves on, so that they won't fear a rope burn. Then I try to make sure that there are enough wraps to easily hold the log with minimal hand pressure.

This usually results in someone that watches the log fall for a while, then still stops it with a yank. Obviously, practice is key here, but I am looking for a training method.

How do you train your guys?

 

[canopyboy]

This usually results in someone that watches the log fall for a while, then still stops it with a yank.

Glad to know it doesn't just happen to me....

 

[ropensaddle]

I have found just leaving the porty in the truck and having them tie the rope to their waste an effective learning tool

 

[WalterTreeCare]

hard to say......IMO, usually most medium pieces require one wrap, the most we've ever really needed was 4 wraps for chunkin out the big boys. There is a fine line that is best learned through experience, you want to let it run so the piece doesnt kill you but if you dont take the proper wraps itll fall fast and hard, destroying property and maybe pull a ground man straight to the trunk under the falling piece. If you wrap too many times then it wont run and might pin you or strike you.
Somethin i learned from the "The Art and Science of Practical Rigging"
(http://secure.isa-arbor.com/webstore/The-Art-and-Science-of-Practical-Rigging-DVD-P268C52.aspx), was to attach a rigging block where you would normally attach your Port-o-wrap, and attach your port-o-wrap to a different tree nearby. That way you get even more rope in the system to absorb the load and if something crazy happens or somebody does something stupid to get tangled in ropes, they wont get yanked to the danger zone.
Port o Wraps are not indestructible. We roped out a piece that was way too big, came down on the portowrap and completely ripped off that big steel ring piece right off the main tube:censored:. Be careful out there.

 

[tree MDS]

After all the years of dealing with insufficient groundmen I have developed my own system of survival up there, its loosely based on the idea that that piece aint moving and I wouldnt trust the guy down there to walk my dog, so I just plan it that way.

Then there is the good partime help, thats always a treat. nice when you expect a big jolt and the piece just flutters down so gently. I've been working the ropes more sinse I got the bucket, I'm starting to get pretty good at it too, but I really dont feel up to trying to explain it here. sorry.

 

[outofmytree]

I am having trouble teaching my groundmen how to "let it run" using the port-a-wrap. Quite frankly, I don't find it that easy to figure out the right number of wrap for the appropriate friction myself.

Right now, when we need to let a log run with a gentle stop, I am telling the guys to lay the rope in their loose grip, let the rope begin to fall, and gradually squeeze the rope until it stops. I try to make sure that they have gloves on, so that they won't fear a rope burn. Then I try to make sure that there are enough wraps to easily hold the log with minimal hand pressure.

This usually results in someone that watches the log fall for a while, then still stops it with a yank. Obviously, practice is key here, but I am looking for a training method.

How do you train your guys?

This is odd to me so perhaps I have been lucky with my crew. I would suggest that confidence and practise are key ingredients to improvement in any job. Perhaps you should halve the size of every piece you remove for the next job or two. Tell them exactly how many wraps and buy them the stoutest pair of welding gauntlets you can find.

attach a rigging block where you would normally attach your Port-o-wrap, and attach your port-o-wrap to a different tree nearby

This is a technique we use where possible and if another tree isnt available I bring my skidsteer loader in and use that as an anchor.

Good luck mate.

 

[Grace Tree]

Good luck. Back when we were doing all our tree work on a volunteer basis we had to try and train guys who'd never done any form of tree work. It got so frustrating with the port-a-wrap that we finally gave up and went to a Hobbs and then later a GRCS. Even with the correct number of wraps on the porty, they got distracted by the movement of the device when the rope slacked and would snub everything up. It just got too hard trying to teach and when we switched to a bollard most of the problems went away. One thing we did find out was that some people never get it and some just have a natural aptitude. Among the volunteer ranks the worst learners were former executives. They just wouldn't take directions well.
Regards,
Phil

 

[Tree Pig]

Holy crap, who are you guys hiring, I never thought the port a was all that hard to use or explain. I would say the most common problem is probably people taking too many wraps on the porty. Someone else mentioned it above but, very seldom and only on larger pieces do you really need more then one wrap.

Here put this sign on the job site maybe it will help

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

Perhaps explaining it like brakes on a car, were you need to stop without sloshing coffee and passengers around.

Finesse is difficult to teach.

 

[Grace Tree]

Perhaps explaining it like brakes on a car, were you need to stop without sloshing coffee and passengers around.

Finesse is difficult to teach.

That's a great way to explain it. I'll have to remember that.
Phil

 

[treemandan]

Perhaps explaining it like brakes on a car, were you need to stop without sloshing coffee and passengers around.

Finesse is difficult to teach.

That's the ticket and you can't teach finesse. One needs to be able to figure out how to work the thing by hisself. It does take a good amount to be able to lower stuff. Its not a job for sleepy people.

 

[treesquirrel]

you take the port a wrap, attach it to a saddle the groundie is wearing as if he were using it as a brake to lower himself. then you tie a rope to your bumper. wrap the rope around the port a wrap. get into your truck and tell the groundie that when you start driving too fast to "let it run".

That should get the point across. quite well.

 

[D Mc]

Quite frankly, I don't find it that easy to figure out the right number of wrap for the appropriate friction myself.

It is mighty hard to teach what you don't know. The Port-a-Wrap is a vast improvement over taking trunk wraps in its consistency. Whereas there is no magic to lowering with it, like most everything else we do, it is a progressive skill.

Start easy, small stuff and use a good double-braid rope. Don't even think about using 3 strand. Start off with less than a full wrap. Let both the groundie and you get the feel for smooth running line. Progressively work larger. Mistakes most often occur from too many wraps, which make it almost impossible to prevent a jerk.

You, as a climber, have to be confident of judging the weight of the piece in order to give your ground person the confidence they need to perform their job. For instance, I will often vocalize if the initial drop is going to create a heavy feel but that the piece is actually no heavier than the previous piece.

You need to develop some level of trust with your ground person for them to be relaxed enough to do a good job for you.

Dave

 

[IcePick]

The finese in operating a port a wrap is VITAL. I'll be on that thing all day long with someone else up in the bucket and I won't say a word nor will one be spoken to me all day, it's like magic, f...... ice capades, it's beautiful.

I'll teach your crew...sixty five an hour I charge for a demo. PM me. Thanks.

 

[Sparky8370]

I've never run one. I've never seen one. But, if it's what I think it is, I bet I could run it without you saying a word to me. It sounds like a tugger. I am an electrician. When we have a big pull, we use a tugger. It's an electric motor with a gear reduction and a capstan. Every 10 degrees or so it locks so it can't go backwards, and I think there may be a clutch in there because it never goes backwards. We usually use 3/4' rope with it.

Anyways, if it's what I think it is why not have them come to your house on their time off. Have a few pieces of varying weight and set it up at a tree and have them raise and lower the pieces and critique them on their performance. If you are right there with them, it will probably be easier to teach them.

Edit: Here's a pic I found on the web of what I am talking about. Is it like this?

 

[treemandan]

you take the port a wrap, attach it to a saddle the groundie is wearing as if he were using it as a brake to lower himself. then you tie a rope to your bumper. wrap the rope around the port a wrap. get into your truck and tell the groundie that when you start driving too fast to "let it run".

That should get the point across. quite well.

That is probably the best way. Its not an easy thing. People think it is and underestimate what they have to do in order for it to work. You have to be very aware.
I get annoyed when people ask me " how many wraps should I take?" Well if its not your first day you should know the answer yourself.
It doesn't take a whole lot of wraps to be able to control a sizable limb it just takes being able to think and do.

 

[IcePick]

I've never run one. I've never seen one. But, if it's what I think it is, I bet I could run it without you saying a word to me. It sounds like a tugger. I am an electrician. When we have a big pull, we use a tugger. It's an electric motor with a gear reduction and a capstan. Every 10 degrees or so it locks so it can't go backwards, and I think there may be a clutch in there because it never goes backwards. We usually use 3/4' rope with it.

Anyways, if it's what I think it is why not have them come to your house on their time off. Have a few pieces of varying weight and set it up at a tree and have them raise and lower the pieces and critique them on their performance. If you are right there with them, it will probably be easier to teach them.

Edit: Here's a pic I found on the web of what I am talking about. Is it like this?

No, the port a wrap has a way bigger motor on it than that.

 

[treemandan]

The finese in operating a port a wrap is VITAL. I'll be on that thing all day long with someone else up in the bucket and I won't say a word nor will one be spoken to me all day, it's like magic, f...... ice capades, it's beautiful.

I'll teach your crew...sixty five an hour I charge for a demo. PM me. Thanks.

Absolutely!

 

[lumberjack333]

No, the port a wrap has a way bigger motor on it than that.

Bwahahahaha!:agree2:

 

[Sparky8370]

Bwahahahaha!:agree2:

yeah, I did a search on it and what I did find just looks like a block and posts. Sounded like you guys were talking about a power tool. I bet you guys would love a tugger. It would work awesome when running a rope to pull a tree a certain direction while cutting it.