How would you cut this tree?

[CountryBoy72]

Gologit, the one thing that experience will hopefully do is keep you safe. You would see the warning signs, hopefully have the skills to deal with the situation. Inexperienced, you would have no clue what's happening, or going to go awry shortly.



Tree Huggers Ball.... - YouTube. If you go to the 4:00 minute mark.This is my faller buddy. He did this on my property too, it's something to watch it being done. Years of experience , not for the inexperienced. One of many tricks of the trade they have got to use. Sometimes it's safer to use another tree to do the work for you. You can see he cut the front tree just enough , then hammered it with the back tree.wish there was footage of him getting a big fir down, that was hung up in another tree. He did what he calls fence posting, put the tree on the ground in lengths.

 

[unclemoustache]

Before you cut, make sure you harvest those kids from the inside of the tree. They look like keepers. :msp_biggrin:

 

[Gologit]

Gologit, the one thing that experience will hopefully do is keep you safe. You would see the warning signs, hopefully have the skills to deal with the situation. Inexperienced, you would have no clue what's happening, or going to go awry shortly.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[CountryBoy72]

Gologit, I am sure that you are wiser beyond your years . I was just adding to your remark, should of used a quotation . If I only knew how to do so. I don't give advice to my elders, just receive it from them.:rolleyes2: Unless it has to do with technology, then maybe just a little advice. :msp_w00t:

 

[OH_Varmntr]

I'd bring it down with a chainsaw and a .44MAG. Hey, it worked on TV! :msp_w00t:

All kidding aside, pictures cannot relay exactly what you see there. If you aren't comfortable with bringing it down, then be all means back away. It's not worth possibly getting hurt over.

That said, I've brought down trees that I probably should have backed away from. But that's how you learn. On the other hand I've backed down from trees I didn't want to chance it with. If you go at it with a level head and consider all of your options, with the help of a little bit of luck then nothing is impossible.

 

[RandyMac]

I'd barberchair 'em just for the noise in it.

Just make sure you use enough facecut, steep and deep.

 

[elmoleaf]

Hurricane Sandy took down a similar looking tree for me. A large oak, about a 30"-36" dia. that had center rot & a c-shaped trunk from where the side of tree had torn away many years ago.
The trunk had split vertically on a diagonal, then snapped through about 8' above ground level. Created a big scary mess.

When I finally got to the stage of splitting up the c-shaped rounds, it was amazing how much of the interior wood that at first seemed good was actually dead. It was kind of brittle, while being spongy at the same time.
It was freaky enough that I was glad I hadn't been trying cut down a tree with a trunk like that. The wood was too unpredictable. Also found many buried stubs of limbs, that had broken off long ago and then grown over. They created hidden rotten and weak spots.....at least that helped the log splitter. But again, if I'd been cutting an upright tree like that, would've been scary.

Cutting down a tree with that much rot for wood isn't worth it. I spent a lot of time trying to chunk off the rotten & ant infested stuff when splitting....and ended up with a big pile of junk.

 

[rwoods]

Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes there are unseen structural flaws in the tree that the faller can't see. Even on a straight healthy trunk there can be internal stress that isn't apparent until the back cut is started.

Wind can be a factor, too. Even a small puff of wind causes movement and stress quite a ways down the tree. You won't always see it but it's there. If you're wedged up tight in the back cut watch the gap between the top of your wedges and the cut. If it starts to widen and close, widen and close, you can bet that there's some major stress at work. We call that "walking the wedges" and if it happens long enough and with enough force the wedges can spit out and the tree will usually come over backwards on you. When that happens you can have a face 'chair, too. They're not common but they happen.

It's not always inexperience that makes things go awry.

You are on the money as usual and I especially appreciate your comments about barber chairing that sends the stem to the side.

Wedges??? I thought I recently read somewhere that they were not necessary. :msp_scared:

My comment about lack of experience and training wasn't meant to be a catch-all. It was just the combination of a reflection on what happened to me in two instances and a cumulative and frustrated reaction to the many and varied AS posts (not this thread) that state "I've cut X number of trees in (fill in the blank) way, they all fell down, I didn't get hurt therefore my way works and while I have your attention would someone please validate it."

I have come to learn that it takes both training and experience to cut safely. To illustrate my point: Due to lack of training, I worked at techniques to avoid getting hurt by a barber chair after experiencing my first potental killer. And although I went 30 years before I experienced another* this experience doesn't equate to I knew what I was doing even though I thought I did. In fact, it was many years before I learned that there were specific techniques to help avoid a barber chair.

Other than referring to Dent's book, I have no real training (and I am sure it shows); the primary reason I check out this forum and the logging forum is to learn.

Ron

*I couldn't begin to count the barber chairs I have had on small trees I whacked down with a farmer's cut and no face-cut (almost the only ones that don't barberchair are those that fall backwards). Little trees can kill you too. Like I said experience alone doesn't always equate to knowing how to do something properly and safely.

 

[Fred Wright]

Maples in that condition are barber chairs waiting to happen. I took down a rather large red maple last year that was similar. The base was pretty much hollow due to carpenter ants and it had a lean for good meaure.

Made a face cut on the lean side, smaller than usual and above where (I thought) the wood was in better shape. Solid wood in the face cut. So far, so good.

Started on the back cut and heard a crack... I let go of the saw and ran like hell. Just in time as it turned out. That tree split up the middle, chaired 8 feet up, rotated and crashed down away from the stump. Had it fallen on the other side, my saw would be in the obits.

That was enough risk for this old dog. Never again.

 

[RandyMac]

Fred, the problem was most likely the small face cut.

 

[Patrick62]

Discretion is the better part of valour

I fully understand the "not wanting to back down from a challenge". From the "hardly a pro" perspective:

I like the girdle it with chains/straps idea. I also like removing that limb first. In fact that is probably the best idea to dealing with it. Remove everything up to about 20 foot level. Drop the trunk with a greatly improved safety factor!

Nobody wants to climb that thing? Okay, can't blame ya.

strap it at 3' and cut a deep humbolt on the open side. stroll around the other side and cut a nice back cut. Can ya run fast?

Weatherby 300 at 75 feet with cases of ammo.

blasting it would be the most fun.

I know of one crazy loon up here that would be insane enough to drop it with a kerf cut

 

[haveawoody]

A big bulldozer and i would take it down.

It's a crumble on the drop cut waiting to happen.

If you willing to climb just beyond the rot you could probably put a winch cable around the tree at that point.
I bet a real stong winch would pull the entire top of the tree down.

Or you could try the same thing for tearing limbs of it.
The 1 big limb at the bottom torn off and i bet the entire tree come down.

 

[Garden John]

I think it could be cut without major incident, hard to tell just by photos. Question here is, can you do it?

Need to cut a safe hinge, depends on how much good wood is on the lean side. Why not cut an inspection hole? Cut right in center of where the face cut would go (bore straight in, cut a square bar width x bar width). Then you get an idea of what you're dealing with for good/bad wood.

Figure out if you can make a decent hinge or not. Might not be an ideal hinge (ideal = ~1/4 the way into tree dia, 10% of tree dia thick).

Cut the face cut, and then bore cut behind the hinge (starting on side with good wood). Shouldn't need wedges because it's weighted to fall the way you want.

Bore cut info: http://www2.dnr.cornell.edu/ext/bmp/contents/diy/borebackcut.pdf

I think a bore cut would avoid the barber chair.

That'd be my approach, but I am not a professional tree man, I also didn't see what you would be using for a saw. Something that's pulling a 24" bar would be my choice.

Looks like great firewood!! Good forestry too, tree is dying, might as well cut it and let the younger, stronger ones grow big.

 

[unclemoustache]

I saw a vid around here the other week where a guy felled a large hollow tree. He did no facecut at all. I was wondering what the heck he was doing. Just a back cut and wedged it. It all went over beautifully.

What do you think of that? I certainly don't know enough to give an opinion, but I'm interested to hear from others.

 

[woodchuck357]

I've cut a fair number of trees like those

have never used chain to try to prevent barber chair, but have used several wraps of cable.

When I do those kinds of trees and need them to go a certain direction a cable is put in the tree, ran thru a snatch block, and pulled by a 4 wheel F350 with a load of wood in it. More hinge wood is left than normal then the truck pulls the rest.

I would make a wide open face cut (90 degree) shallower than normal (less than 25%) leave more hinge than normal, bore cut toward the back. If possible (when it does not matter where the tree falls) notch on the side away from the open hollow and let the wood at the edges of the hollow be the last cut.

I use a bar that will reach all the way thru the tree for the reverse back cut. but might start the bore with a shorter one depending on how big the tree is.

That is how I do them, NOT RECOMENDING ANY ONE ELSE DO IT!:cool2:

 

[johnnylabguy]

I THINK YOU SHOULD USE SOME TANNERITE AND A .223!
:hmm3grin2orange:

Actually, I have a storm damaged hanger in my woods I've been wanting to do this to, but don't have a clean shot from safe distance!

Tree removal - YouTube
[video=youtube;UejDu7Qao-A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UejDu7Qao-A[/video]

 

[Steve NW WI]

I saw a vid around here the other week where a guy felled a large hollow tree. He did no facecut at all. I was wondering what the heck he was doing. Just a back cut and wedged it. It all went over beautifully.

What do you think of that? I certainly don't know enough to give an opinion, but I'm interested to hear from others.

I think it's a poor idea. You're not setting any sort of direction for it to fall. I get the idea that they wanted to leave good wood at the edge for a hinge, but some good wood on each side with a good notch would be better than lots of good wood with no directional control.

I don't know if I explained myself very well, maybe someone else can help explain what I'm trying to say, or I'll get my crayons out for a visual aid later.

Basically, not using a hinge on anything bigger than a sapling is a bad idea in my book. There might be exceptions that I don't know about, but it'd be a pretty rare situation.

 

[VTWoodchuck]

Since this got bumped anyway- I ended dropping the tree. Went fine actually. Well, I couldn't really control where it went so the very top got hung in a yellow birch crotch:bang: but 90% of the tree is on the ground so mission accomplished. All I did was start cutting in the direction of the lean and cut my way around towards the other side. It went right over. I consulted some old timers who did thier share of 'logging' and they assured me that particular tree couldn't barber chair as it was so hollow. They were right
I'll take some pics for proof tomorrow. Wife has me going "shopping" today.:msp_thumbdn: Oh well, Lowes is on the list so its not a total loss.

edit to add that I didn't use a notch because the tree was so narrow around the hollowness, like 3-4" and that is. Thats why it pretty much went where it wanted. I was fine with doing that on this tree because its fairly open around it.

 

[unclemoustache]

I think it's a poor idea. You're not setting any sort of direction for it to fall. I get the idea that they wanted to leave good wood at the edge for a hinge, but some good wood on each side with a good notch would be better than lots of good wood with no directional control.

I don't know if I explained myself very well, maybe someone else can help explain what I'm trying to say, or I'll get my crayons out for a visual aid later.

Basically, not using a hinge on anything bigger than a sapling is a bad idea in my book. There might be exceptions that I don't know about, but it'd be a pretty rare situation.

I hear what you're saying, but if the direction isn't important (or if the tree is fairly well balanced anyway) then I wonder if this isn't such a bad idea.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

Sometimes the situation just sucks, and you have to "cut and jump". I cleared storm damaged trees and hangers from along a trail behind a school Laid a large, branchy Oregon ash uphill, bucked it out of the trail, but the darned thing kept sliding downhill (while it was hung-up in other trees).

Finally stopped sliding down into the trail, but I knew it could start again if some of the limbs hanging it up broke - so I had to get partially under the top and cut on it, knowing I could get slapped by 4 -6 in. limbs (and I was). I couldn't see any alternatives at the time; this was a heavily used trail, and if it popped downhill at the right moment could break someone's leg.

There were alternatives -- like flagging it off, going home for a come-along, pulling the entire tree downhill and mincing it up -- but I didn't want to take the time. I guess those last seven words are ones to think about...

Found some pics of the tree -- around 30 in. diameter and partly rotted at the base. The shots show it after I finished cutting on it. I suppose I could have dumped it across the creek, but I didn't want to wade into it to cut it up either -- water was too cold!:msp_scared:

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