Husqvarna 357xp - 359etech comparison

[ronT2]

I know it's rude to butt in.........
Buy the Zama C3 and the carb flange anyway! My 04 didn't start acting up until after my '06-and has way more hours on it. I thought that it was just the newer HDA's . But for like $60 its worth it to have on hand just in case.
And I also remember reading a Jonsered advertisement that described a compensating carb but strangely, have never read any threads about it.

Not rude at all…just more good info. I finally found the C3-EL42 on the Zama website tonight. They have the venturi diam. listed at 17mm. I couldn’t find a C3-EL carb with over a 15mm venturi until now. The HDA- 199 is listed at 16.66mm. With the mods that I’ve done to the saw I really didn’t want to go any smaller.

Mastermind, here’s what I got for timing #s.

Stock 2159 timing.
Measurements without base gasket.
Squish: .021"
Intake: 78° BTDC=156°
Exhaust: 104°ATDC=152°
Transfers: 120°ATDC

 

[Mastermind]

Not rude at all…just more good info.

Mastermind, here’s what I got for timing #s.

Stock 2159 timing.
Measurements without base gasket.
Squish: .021"
Intake: 78° BTDC=156°
Exhaust: 104°ATDC=152°
Transfers: 120°ATDC

Too cool...thanks.

Now we need the timing #s for the 357 to compare.

If I'm understanding all I think I know about this, lol.

We have only got 16 degrees of blowdown on the 359...not a lot of time when you stick a restrictive muffler in the equation.

Am I right in my thinking guys?

 

[Zombiechopper]

Who has port timing numbers on both of these saws?

If nobody does I'll make my first attempt at checking port timing. I'm pretty sure of the process. I'll see if I can work up some port maps too.

Now I'm trying to learn something here, the crank stuffers are used take up volume in the crankcase. Does this add to the upper rpm power, add low end torque, or spread out the range of usable power?

If I only learned one thing drag racing it's that everything is a trade off. Torque for horsepower...or vice-versa

I have tried to get an answer on the stuffers too on here. I do know my 357 spools up FAST and loves to hold the high rpm's. I don't think it lacks tourque as a trade off though as it cuts right with my 361 all day. I think the stuffers push the charge up faster so the fuel hits ignition point moving at a higher velocity and getting swirled around the combustion chamber for better burn....or maybe my arse is making that idea up. Dunno for sure

 

[parrisw]

I have tried to get an answer on the stuffers too on here. I do know my 357 spools up FAST and loves to hold the high rpm's. I don't think it lacks tourque as a trade off though as it cuts right with my 361 all day. I think the stuffers push the charge up faster so the fuel hits ignition point moving at a higher velocity and getting swirled around the combustion chamber for better burn....or maybe my arse is making that idea up. Dunno for sure

The stuffers reduce crankcase volume, and I think that helps create better top end, though I'm not 100% on that.

 

[ronT2]

Too cool...thanks.

Now we need the timing #s for the 357 to compare.

If I'm understanding all I think I know about this, lol.

We have only got 16 degrees of blowdown on the 359...not a lot of time when you stick a restrictive muffler in the equation.

Am I right in my thinking guys?

Now that you mention it I wonder if I made a typo in my notes. That blowdown # does seem short hopefully someone will be able to verify it.

 

[Mastermind]

Now that you mention it I wonder if I made a typo in my notes. That blowdown # does seem short hopefully someone will be able to verify it.

These are the numbers I got on the 359 without a base gasket. I also thought the blowdown should be higher but 17 degrees is what I found after checking it three times. This is the first time I've done a port timing workup, so this is probably way off. Help me out here. Does this sound right?

Exhaust 110* Duration 140*
Intake 75* Duration 150*
Transfers 127* Duration 106*
Blowdown 17*

This is my piston stop made from an old spark plug. After I knocked out the insulator, I used a 3/8 tap to thread it for a bolt.

This is what I came up with to attach the degree wheel (printed on thick paper after resizing). I removed the flywheel nut so I had some threads, then I put a short piece of rubber hose on the end of the crank.

Here the disc and paper wheel attached to a bolt ready to thread into the rubber hose.

Finally the degree wheel mounted on the saw, I just made a pointer from some stiff wire. Easy as pie.

I checked my findings several times as I was sure I was doing something wrong. After checking to be sure I got the same numbers before and after TDC I was fairly sure I was in the ballpark.

Help me out guys, does this look right? Do these numbers sound correct?

I'll do the 357 tomorrow to see how much different they are. My piston kits are on the way, so I need to get these cylinders cleaned up!

 

[SawTroll]

I was referring to the crankcase:greenchainsaw:

OK, then I agree!

 

[SawTroll]

Not rude at all…just more good info. I finally found the C3-EL42 on the Zama website tonight. They have the venturi diam. listed at 17mm. I couldn’t find a C3-EL carb with over a 15mm venturi until now. The HDA- 199 is listed at 16.66mm. With the mods that I’ve done to the saw I really didn’t want to go any smaller. .....

Afaik, it is normal that Zama rounds the venturi up to the closest mm when making a "substitute" for a given Walbro carb.

 

[huskystihl]

According to the IPL, the 357 and 359 are identical with the following exceptions.

1. Different P&C
2. Rev limited coil on 357
3. Crank stuffers in the 357. The crank and case is the same though.

The 359 P&C simply need some port work and it will run right with the 357, and if the 357 isn't ported, will blow it away. As you pointed out, there's lots of work to do with the transfers. The fastest 60cc saw I've built was a 359. IMHO, the 359 is one of the best values out there. It IS a pro saw.

Well said and I agree. Maybe the 357 is quicker but i've comapared the 359 vs 361 and not enough cutting speed to make up for the price. I know i've ran the 357 but for the life if me can't remember it. My local husky shop will let a 359 gor for $500 and imo you can't beat the saw for that price. And weight is at all of no concern so anyone who argues that is wasting time.

 

[parrisw]

Well said and I agree. Maybe the 357 is quicker but i've comapared the 359 vs 361 and not enough cutting speed to make up for the price. I know i've ran the 357 but for the life if me can't remember it. My local husky shop will let a 359 gor for $500 and imo you can't beat the saw for that price. And weight is at all of no concern so anyone who argues that is wasting time.

I'd love to run the legendary MS361, but I don't think its worth its price. 357's aren't cheap either. Good thing some dumb arse straight gassed his new 357 then sold it to me for $80, put in a new OEM piston, and good to go! It sure is a real runner stock, I think anyway, finally runs like its supposed to with the new Zama carb.

 

[ronT2]

I'd love to run the legendary MS361, but I don't think its worth its price. 357's aren't cheap either. Good thing some dumb arse straight gassed his new 357 then sold it to me for $80, put in a new OEM piston, and good to go! It sure is a real runner stock, I think anyway, finally runs like its supposed to with the new Zama carb.

I'd love to find on of those deals.


Mastermind....
We have some variation in numbers but at least our blowdown numbers agree. I used the old flashlight (torch) through the port while looking down the spark plug hole method to get my #s. It’ kind of tough to get your timing numbers @ .050 lift on a two stroke.

Mastermind, here’s what I got for timing #s.

Stock 2159 timing.
Measurements without base gasket.
Squish: .021"
Intake: 78° BTDC=156°
Exhaust: 104°ATDC=152°
Transfers: 120°ATDC

These are the numbers I got on the 359 without a base gasket.

Exhaust 110* Duration 140*
Intake 75* Duration 150*
Transfers 127* Duration 106*
Blowdown 17*

 

[parrisw]

I'd love to find on of those deals.

Yup, I wouldn't mind a few more!! But they don't come around too often!

 

[huskystihl]

I'd love to run the legendary MS361, but I don't think its worth its price. 357's aren't cheap either. Good thing some dumb arse straight gassed his new 357 then sold it to me for $80, put in a new OEM piston, and good to go! It sure is a real runner stock, I think anyway, finally runs like its supposed to with the new Zama carb.

I had a 361 for a short time and sold it while I could still get my money out of it. It really is a good saw just not one I have any use for. I do have a 359 on the shelf though that my dealer called and said hey I got a great deal for you on. Turns out the owner bought it on a thursday and saturday morning he straight gassed it, knowing it was entirely his fault he went back to the dealer bought another and told the shop to keep it and resell it out of anger at himself. The dealer tried telling him for a reasonable fee he could fix it but the guy refused, long story short he put a new piston and rings "no jug damage" and $300 I have a a brand new husky that i'm saving for my son for a later date.

 

[Mastermind]

I'd love to find on of those deals.


Mastermind....
We have some variation in numbers but at least our blowdown numbers agree. I used the old flashlight (torch) through the port while looking down the spark plug hole method to get my #s. It’ kind of tough to get your timing numbers @ .050 lift on a two stroke.

Our numbers aren't too far away from being the same, and yes we both find a short blowdown period. I look through the ex. port to see the transfers plus I made a flattened wire to stop the piston through the plug hole...works good, may or may not be very accurate.

Later today I will check and post my findings on the 357. Maybe some guys that know what these numbers mean will chime in.

 

[parrisw]

I had a 361 for a short time and sold it while I could still get my money out of it. It really is a good saw just not one I have any use for. I do have a 359 on the shelf though that my dealer called and said hey I got a great deal for you on. Turns out the owner bought it on a thursday and saturday morning he straight gassed it, knowing it was entirely his fault he went back to the dealer bought another and told the shop to keep it and resell it out of anger at himself. The dealer tried telling him for a reasonable fee he could fix it but the guy refused, long story short he put a new piston and rings "no jug damage" and $300 I have a a brand new husky that i'm saving for my son for a later date.

Our numbers aren't too far away from being the same, and yes we both find a short blowdown period. I look through the ex. port to see the transfers plus I made a flattened wire to stop the piston through the plug hole...works good, may or may not be very accurate.

Later today I will check and post my findings on the 357. Maybe some guys that know what these numbers mean will chime in.

I think a shorter blowdown is ok on saws with open transfers, just my guess, hopefully someone that knows more will chime in here.

 

[SawTroll]

Our numbers aren't too far away from being the same, and yes we both find a short blowdown period. I look through the ex. port to see the transfers plus I made a flattened wire to stop the piston through the plug hole...works good, may or may not be very accurate.

Later today I will check and post my findings on the 357. Maybe some guys that know what these numbers mean will chime in.

Remember that the 359 is designed to not perform too closely to the 357xp - just like the MS341 is designed to not perform like the MS361, and the 353 to not perform like the 346xp etc.......

The way it is done can vary, but the goal is the same.

The differences in production costs probably are much less than the differences in retail price reflects!

 

[Mastermind]

Remember that the 359 is designed to not perform too closely to the 357xp - just like the MS341 is designed to not perform like the MS361, and the 353 to not perform like the 346xp etc.......

The way it is done can vary, but the goal is the same.

The differences in production costs probably are much less than the differences in retail price reflects!

Very good points. My aim with this thread is to find and note the differences between the two models just to satisfy my curiosity. And to have some fun.

Thanks for helping out with this endeavor.

 

[Woodman 460]

Very good points. My aim with this thread is to find and note the differences between the two models just to satisfy my curiosity. And to have some fun.

Thanks for helping out with this endeavor.

I agree. Hmmm, isn't Zama related to Stihl somehow? I could have sworn they bought a fair share of Zama! I could be wrong though.

 

[Mastermind]

I just finished checking the port timing on the 357xp, I was surprised to find the exact same numbers.

Exhaust 110* Duration 140*
Intake 75* Duration 150*
Transfers 127* Duration 106*
Blowdown 17*

So far the only differences are the cylinders, (huge difference in the transfer ports), the crank stuffers, and of course the mufflers.

The 357xp is going back together completely stock, not even a muffler modd.

The 359etech is going under the knife, I hope to see it surpass the xp in every way.

The parts should be hear in the later part of next week, but I'm going to the NC beach for 4 or 5 days, and the saws will have to wait.

 

[parrisw]

I just finished checking the port timing on the 357xp, I was surprised to find the exact same numbers.

Exhaust 110* Duration 140*
Intake 75* Duration 150*
Transfers 127* Duration 106*
Blowdown 17*

So far the only differences are the cylinders, (huge difference in the transfer ports), the crank stuffers, and of course the mufflers.

The 357xp is going back together completely stock, not even a muffler modd.

The 359etech is going under the knife, I hope to see it surpass the xp in every way.

The parts should be hear in the later part of next week, but I'm going to the NC beach for 4 or 5 days, and the saws will have to wait.

Not too hard to make a 359 run.