Ideas on speeding up the bucking process?

[Joesell]

My friend is getting into the firewood business and asked me for ideas to speed up his process. He has a tree service and they do very well. He has dabbled in firewood, so he knows what he's getting into. He also has a great start on firewood tools.
He has a skidloader with a grapple, and a splitter. A big homemade splitter with a 4 and 6 way on it.
A conveyor, and a dump truck.
He's got just about every saw.

The part that slows the whole show down is bucking the logs.

I'm not sure a processor is the answer either. Remember, these are tree service logs. All different sizes, full of knots, and metal.

I've seen some of your bucking trailers but I can't seem to find them when I search. Would that speed it up?

How do some of the big boys do it? What's your process look like?

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Processor can handle various lengths and odd pieces.
It's really the only way to be profitable without working like a rented mule.

 

[svk]

Joesell,

Is your friend doing all of the work himself or will there be a crew workers?

Reason I ask is because this Saturday a group of us did 4.5 cords of wood and skidded another 4 cords out of the woods by ATV. The bucking took very little time compared to the rest of the movements and was never the bottleneck in the operation. We had 3 saws and only ran one while the other guys skidded, carried rounds to splitter, split, and loaded the wood.

 

[sledge&wedge]

Considering the equipment he has will allow him to work about 100x faster than I can, I don't have much input on how the "big boys" do it. However, the most efficient system possible would also be the one you have to move/handle rounds the least. Playing with his order of operations and/or positioning of woodpile and equipment is probably the only way he can speed things up as-is.

 

[lone wolf]

Fast enough for you?

 

[sledge&wedge]

Fast enough for you?

Or there's that... I'd second Wolf and recommend that

 

[Guswhit]

You guys have to remember he's trying to process stuff from his tree service. They aren't going to get a nice even diameter log like those running on that skid steer processor. There are going to be a lot of big uglies I'm thinking.

 

[sledge&wedge]

You guys have to remember he's trying to process stuff from his tree service. They aren't going to get a nice even diameter log like those running on that skid steer processor. There are going to be a lot of big uglies I'm thinking.

Yeah I think Wolf knew that. As for my seconding his suggestion, that was just for fun. I stand by my initial statement. Without buying any other equipment, his only option would be to play with order and location of operations until he finds the easiest method for going from the truck to the stack.

 

[lone wolf]

Yeah I think Wolf knew that. As for my seconding his suggestion, that was just for fun. I stand by my initial statement. Without buying any other equipment, his only option would be to play with order and location of operations until he finds the easiest method for going from the truck to the stack.

I am sure it would become very handy.

 

[Hinerman]

The bucking took very little time compared to the rest of the movements and was never the bottleneck in the operation.

I agree, bucking is not the time consumer for me, even if I have to cut and turn logs on the ground. In fact, bucking probably takes the least amount of time of the whole process and all I have is myself, a saw, wheelbarrow, and dolly. With a crew and equipment, bucking should be very efficient.

My suggestion would be to use the skid grapple to hold logs off the ground and over the trailer. The crew can buck them right into the trailer. Obviously, larger logs cannot be lifted but may be bucked into smaller pieces that can. Also, have all your saws ported and get real good at sharpening chains. Keep plenty of sharp chains on hand.

 

[stltreedr]

I own a tree service but am not a "big boy" by any means. I just purchased a skid steer and grapple set up- which has improved my wood processing speed immensely. I pick up the logs, drive them to the splitter, and cut them- off the ground, at waist height... smaller logs i can do a whole bunch at one time.

I intend to get more serious into firewood sales, but the only way to go is a processor.. For the big ugly nasty pieces, they will be split whole as a log- with a machine like the Giant King Kord, until they are suitable for the processor... Maybe next winter that'll be on my shopping list.

 

[mr.finn]

I don't think there is any way around bucking big nasty tree removal logs other than a big chainsaw. Metal in there is sure to slow him down a bit too. The biggest thing that slows me down is the stacking process. I don't leave it in piles, I want to sell the driest wood possible.

 

[jrider]

How many cords do you consider "big boys"? I did 124 full cords this year. I get wood all kinds of ways- some cut but most in log length or trees I cut myself. I have a splitter with a 4 way but splitting is still the slowest part of my operation and its not even close.
I don't see any processor being the answer to tree service wood unless he cuts in log length and has a grapple truck.

I have a JD with forks so I pick up logs and bring to my splitter and cut waist high. When I get a decent pile, I fire up the splitter till its gone. I throw all the splits in windrow piles. This is the fastest way with my equipment.

 

[dave_dj1]

Well in my opinion (and i tell this to a friend that is in the tree removal bizz all the time) you are getting paid to cut the tree down, a flat rate, take the time to cut it to firewood length at that time. Only have to load it and dump it at the splitting station. He doesn't do it because he is all about making the big money at the site, then he'll **** with the pieces for a week getting it all cut and split. Seems like time better spent at the job site, unless you are under a huge time constraint which I know he isn't.

 

[old-cat]

I have a JD with forks so I pick up logs and bring to my splitter and cut waist high.

This is a VERY fast and efficient way to buck!

 

[Mad Professor]

Pile the logs lengthwise and have at them with a big saw and long bar, don't make the pile more than twice as wide as the bar is long, pile the logs on some cross pieces so the bottom logs are off the dirt. Make your cuts at desired length of rounds. Have your splitter crew next door.

 

[VW Splitter]

Ported saw and sharp chain.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I did roughly 500 cords of firewood last year. I'm not sure if that's alot or not compared to other guys doing firewood. On a good week I deliver 15-20 cords. That is mostly by myself though at times I have a hired hand that helps. With me and the hired hand we can do 5-6 cords in a day without trouble. The bottleneck is really stacking the wood in the trucks. There isn't any way around it to make sure I have the amount the customer ordered not to mention fit it all in the truck.

Sure a crew of 4-5 guys can knock out a bunch of wood with saws and a hydraulic splitter, but as far as a profit standpoint it wouldn't work out well. If you paid those guys $10/hr (let's not even factor in taxes, workers comp, etc, etc).. Your looking at $50/hr just in labor. Figure in another $30/hr in wear items, fuel, etc. I'm talking everything from saws, gas, splitter parts, gloves, whatever.And really that's the tip of the iceberg.

We actually get a fair amount of logs from home builders, farmers, etc. Sometimes they start with the idea of selling firewood and after a few days into cutting they realize it's not worth all the work. Then we get a call asking what we'd pay for a pile of logs. Once in a while they feel it's worth gold, but more often they just want it gone.

It's very much a different animal of running a firewood business were the sales are your main income vs cutting some wood as side work for "rainy day money".

I run a Blockbuster 15-20 that I'm working on modifying a bit to make it handle larger logs and for it to be quicker (have all the parts, just need the time). Right now it can handle 18" across logs 25-30ft long without much trouble. If they are really curved or knarly then a bit smaller or I have to cut them into shorter pieces sometimes.
Some processors can handle much larger.

The only way to do decent with firewood is to be able to output the volume quickly or sell a product that is very "niche", like bundled wood for $20/bundle at a romantic hotel that has fireplaces.

 

[unclemoustache]

The bucking is the fun part - why rush it?? Unless you have a Super Split. Then the splitting is the fun part!

One of my standard answers is to let the kids do the part you don't like so much, but not everyone has kids the right age (and I'm not loaning mine out, though I have enough to go around).

You could have a 'bucking area' with a few 6x6 posts laid on the ground at appropriate intervals.

 

[woodchuck357]

Big saws with bars just long enough (the sharpening will be less) and sharp semi-chisel chains.
A cutting platform with guide marks.