Inexperienced feller looking for advice.

[OH_Varmntr]

Gologit suggested in another thread of mine to post up some pictures in this forum to get some feedback on getting better at felling techniques.

You can read up on my current job I've taken on. No money is exchanged, I was merely asked if I wanted to clear about a miles worth of ditchbanks for a friend. I said yes, as I will use it for firewood.

You can view my other thread here...
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/188108-new.htm

There's a lot of smaller trees in bunches of 5 or 6 on a single stump. I've just been dropping the easiest first. By easiest I mean the ones that need to get out of the way before I can drop the others behind them. There's also some "bigger" trees, up to about 2' across. Not big to some of you, but you know what I mean.

Since the ditch is so long I've just been notching and backcutting away to get a lot of wood on the ground as quickly and as safely as possible. Some of them are leaning over the ditch enough that I can't get in front to give it a notch so I just do a single backcut and get away as the tree is going over. Then I'll return to finish it off. Are there safer alternatives to this?

Here's a few pictures of what I'm up against and the various trees I've been taking down. I'll add more as I have the opportunity to take more pictures. Thanks for any tips in advance!

There are also videos which can be found in the above thread.

 

[hammerlogging]

why don't you spend some time looking at stumps, etc., on the "falling pics" thread and get some idea of what should be going on, as in, do a little research, and then we can talk. Be safe.

 

[PA Plumber]

Hope the "fallers" don't mind...

Douglas Dent has a farily decent book out "Professional Timber Falling ~ A Procedural Approach." It's not perfect, but most of what he says/draws is quite helpful.

I logged off about 15 acres of Eastern Hemlock (20 some truckloads) a few years ago. This was pulpwood and saw logs combined. Had a couple of wood buyer's sawyers walk through our wood lot and drop a couple of trees. They were kind enough to walk me through felling a couple of times and gave me a couple hours of "help."

I even went to work with on of the buyer's small logging crew for a day, took my own saw/oil/fuel. For payment I got lunch and some very good experience.

For me, books, reading, and watching vids only went so far. Stump time is where all the lessons really sunk in.
When throwing trees against the lean, my heart still hammers in my chest.

 

[bitzer]

Well the first thing is brushing out your area. Making sure you have decent escape routes and that your trees hit the ground. When you bend a lot of little trees over (springpoles) with the tree you layed on top of them you are creating more dangerous work for yourself. Also sloping backcuts are no good and don't save anything. Take your time and try to get your cuts lined up. Its not a race. Learn from your stumps. I did this and the tree did that. Assess the tree before cutting for lean, dead limbs, etc. Run through possible scenarios in you head. Look up. On and on. There is always a way to put a face in. Just back cutting a tree will make it split out and barberchair. You have a ways to go, but if you keep an open mind and don't get pissed you will learn something.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Yes, get the Douglas Dent book. In that book, in addition to teaching basic felling techniques, he shows dangerous situations and says "LEAVE IT!". Or in other words you don't have to cut down every tree. Leave dangerous trees or pull them down with power equipment is the idea.

Get that book here...
Bailey's - Professional Timber Falling by Douglas Dent

And take the time to clear out an escape route as shown in the following link. Clear out brush and branches on the ground near the tree you are felling so you don't trip on them when running for your life.

Take the time to properly cut each tree (shown in following) so you maintain control of that tree. Even small trees can have a lot of weight.

If a tree is leaning the opposite direction of where you want it to fall, take the time to attach a come along to pull it the desired direction. Make sure it will go where you want. If the tree gets hung up in another tree, then you have a BIG unsafe problem!

And ALWAYS use the chain brake before walking one foot with your chainsaw. Especially when limbing. Easy to trip and fall. Best if the chain is not moving and your trigger finger will not make it move when you fall on the chainsaw!

Speaking of limbing, beware of and learn about "springpoles". These are limbs which will whack you in the face or balls if you suddenly cut them! Instead make several small cuts to first relieve the tension.

Keep in mind that if a tree is down and you cut off all the limbs on one side, the tree may roll over and you may get whacked in the head by a limb still attached to the tree. Or the trunk may roll over and squish your toes. And cut on the uphill side in case the log wants to roll downhill. Keep in mind limbs under a log may be supporting the log. Take a moment to think about what is going to happen before cutting. Lots of energy in trees even when on the ground.

Here are some basics on proper felling...
G1958 Felling, Limbing and Bucking Trees | University of Missouri Extension

Then click on the things in the pictures at the next OSHA link. Learning these things can keep you out of the hospital...
Logging eTool - Manual Operations

 

[forestryworks]

Step 1: You're either a faller or you ain't; a feller is just a regular fella.

Step 2: No more sloping backcuts.

Step 3: Practice, practice, practice.

 

[RandyMac]

"Inexperienced feller"
LOL!

 

[Billy_Bob]

Here is a picture of a stump with some nice "hinge wood". That is the part of the tree not cut which keeps the falling tree in a controlled fall. Works just like the hinge on a door!

View attachment 212184

 

[Nailsbeats]

The in's and out's of felling are many. I'll touch on a few thing's that I use in a felling sequence.

Read the weather-temperature, wind, precipitation

Read the tree.-balanced, moderate or heavy lean, seems and rot, knots, twisted grain, root flare

Read the surroundings- recognize all potential targets

Place you bets.-predetermine what falling method is needed and how the tree will react

Set it up.-execute the falling method and sequence of cuts

Read the kerf- this will tell you if what you are doing is working, it's either telling you stop, go, go faster, slow down, or get the hell out

Finnish it off- cut up as far as needed and proceed on the escape route looking up and out.

When I first started precision falling I had to tell myself to slow down, that's when I really became aware that the tree was talking to me as I was executing my cuts. When it happens you need to recognize it and react immediately, when you don't race, you'll see it before it gets you.

Precision before production: Be hard on yourself and cut accurately, each time striving for perfection. Once you are there you can always back it off a bit to ramp up production.

 

[Steve NW WI]

I'm not a logger, don't play one on TV, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Slopinng (slopping, farmer cuts, etc...btw I take umbrage with calling them farmer cuts. Many of us farmers know better!) cuts do nothing to control how the tree will fall, and make wedging near impossible. Wedge on a flat cut, and you're lifting the tree (good), wedge on a sloped cut, and you're trying to push the tree sideways (bad).

Mr Dent may well have a good book, but I haven't read it. I will the next time I order from Baileys. I have read "To Fell A Tree", by Jeff Jepson, and I can say there's some good advice there. Anyone who's read both, please chime in and let me know how they compare.

Get yourself a good brushcutter, as already mentioned. A nice one will take anything 3" or under a lot faster than you can even bend down with the chain saw.

If you can find anyone with timber experience, buy em lunch and some beers afterward, Hands on training beats anything you can learn on the internet. Most of what I know I learned from an old guy who spent his teens and 20s in the woods. The stories alone are worth more than you can pay em.

Good luck with the job, have fun, and above all BE SAFE. Buying propane sux, but if you're too crippled up to carry wood, that's what you'll be doing anyway.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I read a bit of your other thread. In it you mentioned something about how you couldn't get the dawgs of the saw up against the tree for your felling cuts. And you were going to make your own...

FYI - I don't need to use the dawgs on my saw for any cuts. I many times make all sorts of cuts without them. Sometimes it is just a "handy" thing to use. But I think I use them more for bucking. Or a back cut. But don't need to. And I have a sharp chain with the "rakers" or "depth gauges" lowered to the correct height. Maybe that is it? Anyway it is like cutting butter with my saw. So I don't need to use any force for the cut. The saw goes right in.

The following Stihl video goes into detail about chain sharpening including the rakers. Also I bring two spare sharp chains for each saw each day. (I always bring a back-up saw.) So I can quickly swap chains if one gets dull.

Stihl "Chain Saw Safety, Operation & Maintenance" video...
STIHL Incorporated USA -- Information -- Manufacturing the World's Number One Selling Brand of Chain Saws

Then I saw how you were having difficulty with the trees right on the edge of the creek bank. For that, I would say you have all the time in the world to think about that and think about some way you can get better footing and do this safer...

Perhaps you could build some sort of sturdy platform with stilts and with non-slip tape where you will stand? Or get galoshes and stand in the water? Or take a shovel and dig out a platform? Perhaps just lay a long 2 x 10 board, with non-slip tape on it, across the creek? Whatever works to make things more safe!

Old time loggers would use "spring boards" in the side of a very large tree...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PY7SqbD2C...rKLajhYqAA/s1600/BC+blog+46+-+springboard.jpg

 

[OH_Varmntr]

why don't you spend some time looking at stumps, etc., on the "falling pics" thread and get some idea of what should be going on, as in, do a little research, and then we can talk. Be safe.

You're right, because asking experienced tree fallers isn't research.

Step 1: You're either a faller or you ain't; a feller is just a regular fella.

Step 2: No more sloping backcuts.

Step 3: Practice, practice, practice.

I'm just a feller. As in fella with an 'er. :hmm3grin2orange:

"Inexperienced feller"
LOL!

See above. :msp_thumbup:

The in's and out's of felling are many. I'll touch on a few thing's that I use in a felling sequence.

Read the weather-temperature, wind, precipitation

Read the tree.-balanced, moderate or heavy lean, seems and rot, knots, twisted grain, root flare

Read the surroundings- recognize all potential targets

Place you bets.-predetermine what falling method is needed and how the tree will react

Set it up.-execute the falling method and sequence of cuts

Read the kerf- this will tell you if what you are doing is working, it's either telling you stop, go, go faster, slow down, or get the hell out

Finnish it off- cut up as far as needed and proceed on the escape route looking up and out.

When I first started precision falling I had to tell myself to slow down, that's when I really became aware that the tree was talking to me as I was executing my cuts. When it happens you need to recognize it and react immediately, when you don't race, you'll see it before it gets you.

Precision before production: Be hard on yourself and cut accurately, each time striving for perfection. Once you are there you can always back it off a bit to ramp up production.

Thinking back on the trees I put on the ground this weekend, I now see I need to slow down. I've got a thought in my head that I need to get all these down and out before 2013 rolls around and I lose what I haven't hauled out yet. Thank you for your insightful post.

I read a bit of your other thread. In it you mentioned something about how you couldn't get the dawgs of the saw up against the tree for your felling cuts. And you were going to make your own...

FYI - I don't need to use the dawgs on my saw for any cuts. I many times make all sorts of cuts without them. Sometimes it is just a "handy" thing to use. But I think I use them more for bucking. Or a back cut. But don't need to. And I have a sharp chain with the "rakers" or "depth gauges" lowered to the correct height. Maybe that is it? Anyway it is like cutting butter with my saw. So I don't need to use any force for the cut. The saw goes right in.

Most of the reason why I want to be able to dig on with the dawgs is to help hold the saw up in position. Since the ground I'm cutting on is often extremely uneven, I often don't have proper footing to guide the saw into the cut without needing something to support the saw. I know, it's very unsafe, but on those cuts I do take my time and am more careful with what I'm doing compared to me being on level ground.

The following Stihl video goes into detail about chain sharpening including the rakers. Also I bring two spare sharp chains for each saw each day. (I always bring a back-up saw.) So I can quickly swap chains if one gets dull.

Stihl "Chain Saw Safety, Operation & Maintenance" video...
STIHL Incorporated USA -- Information -- Manufacturing the World's Number One Selling Brand of Chain Saws

Then I saw how you were having difficulty with the trees right on the edge of the creek bank. For that, I would say you have all the time in the world to think about that and think about some way you can get better footing and do this safer...

Perhaps you could build some sort of sturdy platform with stilts and with non-slip tape where you will stand? Or get galoshes and stand in the water? Or take a shovel and dig out a platform? Perhaps just lay a long 2 x 10 board, with non-slip tape on it, across the creek? Whatever works to make things more safe!

I've thought of purchasing an old climbing tree stand. You know the type? The ones with the free standing bottom platforms that hang on the trees? I could quickly hang one and use it as a platform. I may lost a little bit more wood due to a longer stump but with as much wood that's back there, I wouldn't mind.

Old time loggers would use "spring boards" in the side of a very large tree...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PY7SqbD2C...rKLajhYqAA/s1600/BC+blog+46+-+springboard.jpg

Thank you guys for all your input. Basically I've read that I need to take my time practicing safe, correct cuts using proper cutting techniques. Again thank you and I'll keep it in mind as I do more research and more cutting afield.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

Here are some basics on proper felling...
G1958 Felling, Limbing and Bucking Trees | University of Missouri Extension

Apparently they believe it's ok to do a single cut, as long as it's on trees less than 6" in diameter.
"For trees 6 inches in diameter or less, make one cut through the trunk."

The only ones I have used that "technique" on have been ones smaller than that.

I have left a few trees standing that I felt were out of my reach or I felt were too dangerous for me to try my inexperienced hand at cutting down. There is a big elm that is back there that I won't touch. Looks to be hit by lightning once as the trunk is split vertically and all the bark is off of it. I have no idea how that thing will act once I start cutting it. The landowners will use their excavator to push it over and any other trees I leave up.

 

[slowp]

I'm neither a feller nor a faller. Note my signature line. I do know that like Billybob said, when on a steep cutbank, or streambank, make some solid footing to work from. And have your escape routes brushed and figured out before cutting.

Ooooh, I'm going to utter something and get flamed.

Look for a Game of Logging class perhaps? It won't make you a great faller, but you will learn some safe habits and get a bit of a start on technique and reading the trees. I think there may be more classes in the East than out here.

A real, genuine, faller also told me that he would never recommend using a saw smaller than a 460 for falling.
He says you may need that extra power once in a while to get out of a bad predicament, as in needing to pour it to the tree to keep it falling. You might want to use that bigger saw.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Apparently they believe it's ok to do a single cut, as long as it's on trees less than 6" in diameter.
"For trees 6 inches in diameter or less, make one cut through the trunk.".

Well that is no fun!

One time I had a 3" diameter tree (8 ft. tall) to cut down and made a big production of it for a friend's 5 year old boy. Did the felling cut, then the back cut, then yelled TIMBER!

I think we made the kid wear a hard hat too. He got a big kick out of it, but I think his dad and I had more fun...

 

[hammerlogging]

You're right, because asking experienced tree fallers isn't research. .

you have a long way to go. Its sort of like, "hey, could you real quick tell me how to fly a plane?"

Maybe the firewood forum is where this belongs afterall, a bunch of fellers talking about how neat-o it is to cut some wood.

Its good you're asking for some help. The help you need is an experienced faller by your side, to work with you, might I suggest, hand in hand, humming a spritely little tune.

Neat-O.

I'd rather **** chat about some nuances of the graceful art of slamming timber than write a novel. be safe.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

you have a long way to go. Its sort of like, "hey, could you real quick tell me how to fly a plane?"

I'm certainly no armchair faller, because we all know they know everything.

Maybe the firewood forum is where this belongs afterall, a bunch of fellers talking about how neat-o it is to cut some wood.

Its good you're asking for some help. The help you need is an experienced faller by your side, to work with you, might I suggest, hand in hand, humming a spritely little tune.

As long as it's a Johnny Cash tune, I'd be chipper!

Neat-O.

I'd rather **** chat about some nuances of the graceful art of slamming timber than write a novel. be safe.

You didn't have to sugar coat it. I've got thick skin. :msp_thumbup:

I've read plenty of posts here to know some of the pro guys have zero tolerance for ignorant firewood cutters like me. But then again, there are many guys here willing to help out a guy like me and to them, I say thank you.

To you, I say thank you for the safe wishes.

 

[bitzer]

you have a long way to go. Its sort of like, "hey, could you real quick tell me how to fly a plane?"

Maybe the firewood forum is where this belongs afterall, a bunch of fellers talking about how neat-o it is to cut some wood.

Its good you're asking for some help. The help you need is an experienced faller by your side, to work with you, might I suggest, hand in hand, humming a spritely little tune.

Neat-O.

I'd rather **** chat about some nuances of the graceful art of slamming timber than write a novel. be safe.

Hey Hammer you got a laugh out of me! Holy #### you're a Cash fan?

Early one morning while makin the rounds, I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down. I went right home and I went to bed. I stuck that lovin 44 beneath my head.

 

[bitzer]

Here is a picture of a stump with some nice "hinge wood". That is the part of the tree not cut which keeps the falling tree in a controlled fall. Works just like the hinge on a door!

View attachment 212184

Hey Billy thats more like pull wood. Your face must have been a little tight on that one. Heres some hinge wood for ya!

View attachment 212290

 

[PA Plumber]

Here are some stump shots from a while back... I believe these were in the 24" to 30" range.