Is it possible to preserve a forest without logging?

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M.D. Vaden

vadenphotography.com
Joined
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Location
Beaverton, Oregon
Is it possible to preserve a forest without logging?

I've been thinking about forest preservation lately. Oregon deals with this issue routinely.

It's my view, that a forest can't be preserved totally, since it evolves. But I have noticed that very old forests are very pleasurable to enjoy.

In Oregon, apparently we lost a lot of forest because there was too much flammable material, partially due total lack of forestry work.

Do any of you have any views or ideas about promoting old growth forests?

Even if from scratch.
 
I'm not a forester but I think the Forest Stewards guild and the Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics have some good approaches. Controlled, low impact harvest, worst first, attack invasives, etc.
 
So the question is what is the natural state of a forest? Just like the question, "what is a native species?" the answer is dynamic, without a definitive "correct" response.

The number of lightning-strike caused fires is quite low, but for the past 1000 years, humans have done a lot of their own burning in North America. The Native Americans burned an incredible amount of the landscape, for example.
 
But ignoring fire for the moment, if one wants to keep a forest the same, they have a lot of intervention to do. Forests don't stay the same - they all change, all the time. So someone wanting to keep on old-growth forest an old-growth forest has a lot of work to do if they want it to stay the same "forever." But I do understand that we are putting sunsets on old-growth forests faster than we were 300 years ago.
 
The "natural" state of the forest is an ecosystem in constant change. whether we are speaking of a climax old growth doug fir, red cedar doimnated system or the Pondo forests on the east side of the mountains. Thinbgs will be diferent than they were 100 years ago, the number 1 reason is the continued growth of the urban environment. Now fires are being aggressively suppressed for the homes that are often built inb a place that has existed for centuries as a "fire ecosystem" coupled with the confusion about insect damage, politics, timber value etc it becomes difficult to have an effective mangement plan that truly works.
 
But the "fire ecosystem" is primarily of our own creation. So what should it be? What do you do to return it to its "natural" state?

I think you have to stop and look at where you are now....look at what you need to achieve....and make decisions based on that. I can't speak to fire as much here in the Midwest, but I know we deal with groundwater recharging issues. We know that we have fewer wetlands than in the past but that we have greater diversity than we did in the past.

So diversity is up, groundwater levels down. In my opinion, we should look to preserve the remaining wetlands when realistic (not to be militantly protective, though) and look to reestablish wetlands in abandoned sites, etc. I think a policy of compromise would be much better than the valiant stands for stupidity I've seen from both sides.
 
Cary...

I may take you up on that offer.

One other person I'd like to meet - not on forest talk - is the tree care instructor from Portland Community College that lives in Gales Creek on the east side of our coastal range.

Today, I was walking the woods again in Ecola Park.

One thought that came to mind today, was the vast effect that forests have on streams and run-off.

It reminded me of landscape plantings. When I put trees in, if I water without mulch, it's a matter of seconds before water runs to the side. But when I use a couple of inches of bark, I can get several gallons of water near the tree before it starts to leave the bark. Then when I move to another plant, the bark at the first tree is still releasing water slowly into the soil.

Todays thoughts surrounded how forests can prevent fast water runoff. The larger the tree, the more water it will adhere to itself before the rain hits the ground. A log, if allowed to rot, must be able to hold several hundred gallons of water like a sponge. The moss draping from and clinging to the trees must hold millions of gallons on a regional scale. And the thick mat of leaves needles and moss must also hold millions of gallons just to keep it moist.

An established forest must have remarkable impact on the quality of water in streams and the depth of the rivers in the coastl range.

All I can say is this becomes more and more interesting all the time.

Cary....

What coastal city are you near?

Also, I noticed in the Oregonian today on page one, a story about a forest worker that was called to Ecola Park to rescue a doctor that got hung up in one of the tall trees. Is that paragliding or whatever they call it?

Have you met that climber?

The article said that he's hacked into his leg 4 times with a chainsaw, as well as other injuries like a week ago when a section of tree or limb came down and knocked him out.
 
Thanks.

I was just out there doing a micro-job today - about 1 hour work. NW of the maiin drag up on a hill where the streets are named "planet" and "satellite" etc..

Did it on my way to the coast. Rained driving to Ecola Park, but cleared up upon arrival. Met a Canadian hiker at 11 am that had already gone up and back down Saddle Mountain and was doing the trail from Ecola Park to Seaside and back.

(and he still wasn't done for the day)

He was in many west US major parks and states - said Oregon was the best, and that our coast was the best of the best.

( I think the Columbia Gorge and WA's Olympic Forest will give him food for thought)
 
The natural sequence of plant community replacement beginning with bare ground and resulting in a final, stable community in which a climax forest is reached. Foresters, wildlife biologists, and farmers constantly battle ecological succession to try to maintain a particular vegetative cover.

A quote from- http://forestry.about.com/blforgls.htm
 
Originally posted by caryr
Nick,

I think what you are missing is that fire in the ecosystem is natural. Take a look at the following Science Update: Fire risk in east-side forests.
But like it says in the opening paragraph:
Wildfire was a natural part of ecosystems in
east-side Oregon and Washington before the
20th century. The fire regimes, or characteristic
patterns of fire—how often, how hot, how big, what time
of year—helped create and maintain various types of
forests.
Fires of human origin were going on for centuries before that. So what was going on for the thousands of years before people were supposed to be on this continent? My point is that the definition of "natural" state is to what point? 100 years ago? 300 years ago? 3,000 years ago?
 
Nick has a point when he asked about the natural state to which point. At one time it was not uncommon for native americans to set fires, but the fires were not natural. In university we discussed this alot and pretty much came upon the problem of at what point is a forest natural. Never really came up with an answer, basically you have to define when you will condiser the forest to be at a natural state.
 
Alterations form Natural state, defined?

Howdy all, interesting thread. In general it is probably true that it is hard to define natural state for all "forest types". But here in much of California for any ONE specific area it is pretty easy to describe what the climax community would look like,errrggh has traditionally been, in the abscence of stand-altering human activity..


A few selections have to be made first. Perhaps there is no sense in talking about natural state after "European" intervention since it is at most 200 years (in the west) and that is a mere blip on the biologiocal time scale. But in communites like the mixed coniferous and chaparral of SoCal human presence and activitiy on the wildland-Urban-interface have created conditons TOTALLY unlike what existed before major non-native habitiation. So that leaves the question of wether Native American practices altered the plant community enough to matter. Right now the common assumption is probably no, they did not modify it enough to matter, but I think it depends a lot on which native group, and what type of "forest".

Still, in the case of any one specific area the climax community can usually be identified. For example the forested areas of the EASTERN Sierra Nevada in Central California, Pinyon Juniper woodlands would be dominant, while on the Western side a Mixed coniferous forest would be the norm. The "ologists" (my term, my TM LOL!) then argue over what name to give to each plant community, and how many sub-groups to break each community down into based on the presence and relative abundance of various species. But regardless of what name they give it, it is only one community. Usually fire is the agent that causes stand replacement or conversion to another vegetation type, but it could also be avalanche, shading, or rockslide. Firescars, naturalists+explorers' descritions, old photos, or other methods can give a pretty good record of the period before major non-native human alteration. So if we know the interval to stand replacement, and what the climax community is, we have a pretty good idea of what dynamic existed in the plant community before Euro-contact.


The easiest way to explain this is with an example. I am going to hack up the fine work of Dr Richard Minnich of UCRIVERSIDE, and use 2 places in the Californias as examples. One mixed coniferous forest is in the San Bernadinos, and has massive human alteration. Home to the largest urban forest in the US, in developed areas like around Lake Arrowhead domiciles and related structures are 20 percent of the average fuel load per acre. Landscaping and fire suppression have resulted in tree densties if up to several hundred per ace, and often 80 to 100 mature trees per acre.

Now compare that to the Sierra San Perdo Martir about 250 miles osuth in Baja. There is virtually no development, aand almost no suppression. This area has a similar climate in terms of total ppt, with perhaps a bit more summer moisture, and less from northern systems in the winter. Old photos of the San Bernadinos show big similarities between the SBDos around 1900 and the SPMs now.


Many areas in the SBDos have suffered stand replacing fires. The fire return interval is shortened to as little as 20 or 30 years, and suppression has non-randomized large fires into the worst possible weather conditions, 5% humidity with high winds. (this is almost always the only conditions under which fires seriously escape intial attack). Even attempts to counter the effects of past fire suppression with prescribed burns may fail if the prescribed burns do not have sufficient intensitry and flame height to kill almost all the recruitment trees and leave a mostly even-aged stand of trees over 100 years old. In the SBDos as they now exist, most tree mortality occurs at once, in a catastrophic fire. Only costly mechanical fuel removal can reduce the immediate danger around developed areas.


By contrast in the SPMs, most tree mortality occurs between 10 and 50 years of age. Most fires are small, and burn 1-5 thousand acres. One study area (I forgot to write down the size, probably 1000 hectarias) had 212 microburns in a twoweek period in 1991, mostly from lightning. Forest density typically is 40 trees per acre, plus or minus 10 or so.


I know all the ologists are still fighting over HOW past best practices have altered the natural landscape, and HOW to get back to a plant community closer to the stable ones that existed before development and supression were widespread. But WHAT the natural community and it associated and defining fire regime looked like can probably be figured out pretty accurately by research, and looking south to the SPM and the Mexican cismontaine chaparral community.
 
If we assume that it takes 100 years to grow a decent forest whether hard or softwood. That forest would have to endure several stress factors such as high winds, bug infestation, blow down, snow press, wildfire and indescriminate cutting.
The trick is to have an uneven aged stand where there are always a certain amount of trees that are becoming financially mature. This is the basis of sustained yeild logging. However every situation is different, but to have trees we must cut trees. They are like glorified carrots that must be weeded as well as harvested.
Isolating crop trees by removing lower grade stems creates huge dividends with regards to growth rate and financial return.
The word natural is one of the most misused words in the English language. Nature is neither malevolent nor benevolent. It just tries to reach a happy medium whereby somethings loss is something elses gain.
John
 
Hey Nathan, heard they're starting to pay landowners to kill a few trees to get some deadwood to rot over there.

Like fleas, maybe it's too clean there?
 

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