Well, I agree, ,,do I hear Merle Haggard?
Merle Haggard-Are The Good Times Really Over - YouTube
Jeff
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Well, I agree, ,,do I hear Merle Haggard?
Merle Haggard-Are The Good Times Really Over - YouTube
Jeff
ForTheArborist
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes, exactly. This will linger in the air to some guys, but being from the tech gen is something that helps a lot with starting from the bottom. Some fellas can't understand anything about the stuff that is readily available to minimize time and effort, but these same guys were the best available pros for hire only 10 to 15 years ago. The smart guys from the tech gen are going right around them, and in 10 more years this will be much more the case.
Some of these tech advantages in the industry are free or for very minimal fee.
As far as the "brown crowd" goes, who the H minds any American with loads of work skills no matter what, but in regards to the illegals we've ran across customers that warn us not to bring them on their properties. I'm one of the guys that will not be bringing them onto any properties regardless of what anyone is saying. ......they all hate me now
treeman82
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not going to deny that I am better off with the license, however when it's not doing anything for me other than costing money... I kind of have to wonder is it really worth it? A few years ago I turned down a dead elm tree that was less than 5 feet from 23Kv lines on one side, and had other wires on 2 other sides. A supervisor from CL&P told me that if I had done it and been caught they would have looked to pull my license. Some moron without a license did the job... if he had been caught they couldn't do anything to him. Between the money I pay CTPA for membership, and for the meetings... I'm not saying that it is much, but if they aren't helping the cause at all, then why should I give them the money? Heck, they don't even help with maintaining certification like ISA does... I could go to those meetings, sit on my rear end all day drinking and still have more than enough credits at the end of the year to renew. They certainly don't help with education the way that ISA and TCIA do. The fact that the state requires us to be licensed, but doesn't go after those who are not is not a big boost to morale either. I actually got up and spoke at the winter meeting (along with several others) asking for increased enforcement. One woman from DEEP was talking about pending cases. I spoke with her about a week or two after the meeting about various things... I inquired about a complaint that I had filed... numerous times, they have done absolutely nothing, even though it's a cut and dry violation. So tell me... why should I maintain my membership and licensing?
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hey...good for you FTA.
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
I hear you loud and clear. Same thing here in Texas with licensed irrigation contractors and pesticide applicators. The same old jackrags have been turned in again and again and again. There is one Mexican guy calling himself Leo's Enterprises that must have been turned in 100 times for no pesticide applicators license and or no irrigation license over the past FIFTEEN years and the state does nothing.
Also work in Ct with a Ct Arborist Lic and was at the last CTPA meeting, frustration abounds.
The supervisor from CL&P was blowing smoke up your butt, he has no authority to pull your license. As you know one doesn't need a Lic. in CT to do removals. To work close to power lines one needs to be EHAP certified. Never heard of anyone being fined for violating the minimum safe approach distance to wires unless an accident occurs. I have my guys EHAP certified through the ISA the training costs time & money. I tell the homeowner our guys are trained, certified and have the proper equipment to work close to the primaries. Guess who still gets the job?
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
There will always be a market for professionalism, admittedly its only a small market. Dealing with the average HO who wants the cheapest deal to get his tree topped is a dead end and will lead to frustration and bankruptcy.
I would love to start a little tree service and be semi-retired, but the whole tree buisness thing out here is in flex, and the money isn't there. But I do alright working for a few company's that are above the crude. They deal with clients that know what good tree care is and the long term benefits of having a professional work and maintain there trees. It's a small market, but it's there.
Many Company's have had to restructure and change the way they do business to survive. Smaller crews less equipment, shorter work weeks, contract labor.
Competing against a labor force who has no overhead, cheap labor, and not burdened by conscious or ethics will in the end either break you or bring you down to their level. I know many have no choice, and texas sounds worse then Cali.
Is there a silver lining? No I doubt it. The construction trades have been taking over, as has trucking, and it's only a matter of time here in the SW we'll be put out of work.
I don't care about the color of a persons skin, some of the best trimmers I've known have been Mexican. But I do have issue with illegals, and the people who hire them. You know who you are and it's come back to bite you in your ass.
I would love to start a little tree service and be semi-retired, but the whole tree buisness thing out here is in flex, and the money isn't there. But I do alright working for a few company's that are above the crude. They deal with clients that know what good tree care is and the long term benefits of having a professional work and maintain there trees. It's a small market, but it's there.
Many Company's have had to restructure and change the way they do business to survive. Smaller crews less equipment, shorter work weeks, contract labor.
Competing against a labor force who has no overhead, cheap labor, and not burdened by conscious or ethics will in the end either break you or bring you down to their level. I know many have no choice, and texas sounds worse then Cali.
Is there a silver lining? No I doubt it. The construction trades have been taking over, as has trucking, and it's only a matter of time here in the SW we'll be put out of work.
I don't care about the color of a persons skin, some of the best trimmers I've known have been Mexican. But I do have issue with illegals, and the people who hire them. You know who you are and it's come back to bite you in your ass.
stltreedr
ArboristSite Operative
Looks like this thread went off the rails... If you persnally feel like you get value, perceived or actual, from becoming cerified or licensed; then do it. If not, don't. I know we have some Arborist groups around here and we all get together, even though we compete for the same customers, and have a great time together drinking beer, eating bbq, sharing stories.
As far as taking the test every 3 years, you can get all the ceu's you need to maintain for free
Online Seminars for Municipal Arborists -
You can actually learn something from going to the conferences and meetings, but they aren't free.
As far as taking the test every 3 years, you can get all the ceu's you need to maintain for free
Online Seminars for Municipal Arborists -
You can actually learn something from going to the conferences and meetings, but they aren't free.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
david miller
ArboristSite Operative
from this post Ive learned there is some bitter people, some cut throats and some professional still in this business, whoops for got the wanabes:laugh
Clearly you`re still on that bus even as an adult!! atleast we wont have to worry bout you taking/passing the CA exam the last I checked you still had to be able to read & spell. BTW: Im plenty busy "old money" "new money" as long as its money & I charge enough to pay my guys on the ground more than a$100 & lunch is on me.............no burritos here! LOL
LXT............
Sunrise Guy
Addicted to ArboristSite
Perhaps Austin, Texas, is the "odd man out," here. Without my credentials, I could not work half the jobs I do. I could not do tree reports, file permits, get municipal gigs, etc. Obviously, you need to weigh out the importance of certification in your locale. Even if I could get the gigs that now call for the cert, without having one, I'd stay certified. I like learning new things, staying up to date on new research in our profession. I think retesting every three years to save money is laughably goofy. What a boring way to go. Eventually, research from the last ten years will make its way onto the tests and then you'll have to break down and learn things that up to date arborists already know. Ooh-------
MackenzieTree
ArboristSite Member
Yea i think that clnp is blowing smoke those guys can get alittle ahead of themselves unless you took the power out, you should maintain your ct arborist lic at the very minimum its one thing to offer that other tree companies cannot. Pruning, cabling and commercial is something that without that lic you should not do in ct cause you can get into trouble. When i do get that licence ill know that im better off and more educated about tree work than others and can offer those other services without any worry. So im telling you why at the very least keep the arb lic for the state because i would kill for one and am working hard to get one and i dont care what others are doing only how can i do better.
Honestly im not sure that ISA really has changes much in the past 20yrs other than watering down their requirements to be certified, I found an old ISA catalog from 96 & theres only a few new things really!!!! unless you think the CD stuff is new? there way of getting the material out has changed but what I think is laughably goofy is spending money on a Cert where more than 1/2 the country doesnt even care about it unless you are working for a utility, municipality, etc..
I posted awhile back in regard to a contract I bid for the PA game commision, the winner of that bid was an out of state firm that specialized in Demo work for road construction, not a certified guy amongst them in regard to tree care, 81 acres entailing 9 plots of random acreage to be manually cut, very hilly, strip mine type of land...........cheapest bid WINS it was done for less than 8k
I keep my Cert only because there is alot of material for me to still read & learn, but I can understand why someone with over 20yrs of Certification would question continuing with it..........what are you really gonna teach that person? the one guy I know has just about any book you would want, holds his pest/herb license through the state so what can ISA teach him about fertilization? & to add greater insult to the line clearance side of things they come up with EHAP training which is a complete utter joke...you talk about laughable, a 50 question multiple choice test a 5th grader could pass!
dont get me wrong I like being certified, but more for my own sake...My cert literally has only helped me a hand full of times & the most recent was a month ago when I went to court over a tree issue......I enjoy trees in general & the work but being Certified really doesnt make you better! I know...treeseer & I went round bout this & he basically called me out & dared me to get certified....so I did, wasnt no big deal & no where near as hard as I thought, most of the stuff I had known for years, Now if I had taken the NAA(the real deal) exam prior to ISA? im not so sure I would have passed the first time!
LXT..........
"I keep my Cert only because there is alot of material for me to still read & learn, but I can understand why someone with over 20yrs of Certification would question continuing with it"
I've had mine 20 years and i see no such question--lots of new stuff to learn!
..........what are you really gonna teach that person? the one guy I know has just about any book you would want, holds his pest/herb license through the state so what can ISA teach him about fertilization?
Maybe not much, maybe a lot--the A300 fert standard has tripled in size; now covers soil management, for instance
& to add greater insult to the line clearance side of things they come up with EHAP training which is a complete utter joke...you talk about laughable, a 50 question multiple choice test a 5th grader could pass!
that's not ISA but TCIA that does EHAP; and there is no NAA or NAA test; again the rant jumped the rails. Glad to hear you got CA and it's working out for you. Indispensable if you ever have to testify.
I've had mine 20 years and i see no such question--lots of new stuff to learn!
..........what are you really gonna teach that person? the one guy I know has just about any book you would want, holds his pest/herb license through the state so what can ISA teach him about fertilization?
Maybe not much, maybe a lot--the A300 fert standard has tripled in size; now covers soil management, for instance
& to add greater insult to the line clearance side of things they come up with EHAP training which is a complete utter joke...you talk about laughable, a 50 question multiple choice test a 5th grader could pass!
that's not ISA but TCIA that does EHAP; and there is no NAA or NAA test; again the rant jumped the rails. Glad to hear you got CA and it's working out for you. Indispensable if you ever have to testify.
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
I don't deny the advantage of having and maintaining a CA or BCMA credential as far as the knowledge side of it goes. I've been in the green industry 35 years now. The first 9 for somebody else and the last 26 for me and lord knows best practices have changed over those years. When I first got exposed to the business in the late seventies it was an era when some of the genuine "old time" tree guys were still around hands on. Not many but some. Now, I'm talking here about the REAL old school dudes some of which were born in the teens. Talk about bad practices and dangerous practices I've seen it. The main thing I was talking about is that in some locations mainly in the south price has become the only factor for just a big chunk of the population. I mean a big chunk. Dr. Alex Shigo, God rest his soul, would have a hard time selling his knowledge in my neighborhood. But, it hasn't always been that way here. I round tabled with an unlikely small group of arborist put together by happenstance back in Nov. in Tyler, TX. Everybody agrees on what is going on...not everybody agrees on the cause. Some cite (and I can really get on board with that cause) the Mexican invasion. Some say it's the "new economy". Others say it's just a different kind of consumer. I don't know, but I know this, for my neck of the woods it's a reality.
cjtreeclimber
ArboristSite Operative
Haha! you are laughing sir. This is good and healthy for you. I actually love burritos because they are full of carbs and protein. You can pick up some fairly large cans at the Mexican store where Tryon and sugar creek cross in my town for 5/5. Simply open up a can and empty it on a disposable plate with some mixed cheese, put a bag over it, and nuke it for two minutes. Serve yourself with some raw veggies , garlic , and a good cold beer. Quite fulling knowing I have my cheap low ball cash still fully at my disposal for the next time I have to fight over a job with someone like you. You can talk all your drivel. I love it. I sleep in my storage unit, collect food stamps, got a low income deal for the ymca to take showers and work out doing pull-ups ect. I drive a mini van and use a trailer to mulch up-shove all the peaces of branches into my trailer + all the hardwood I simply blow craigs list up with free wood postings for people to come get. Every penny saved is a penny earned for investments. I can sleep well knowing that your days of living high off the hog are numbered sir.
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mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well, hmmm. You more or less branded yourself as jackrag with that little post.
cjtreeclimber
ArboristSite Operative
yeah yeah, speak for yourself. You pick a beef with a little man like me you don't even know who or what the heck is going to start coming across that border. I'm not looking forward to it. At least I'm the type of guy that looks up to you climber/Arborists I can only envy you high hog people at the moment; however, I have a 5 trees tomorrow, a bunch of rain, then a huge tree take down for 700, then of course no one leaves me alone even in the dead of winter so whats next? how about a little 4 door sedan. Take out the back seats and put a hitch on the back (for my trailer) for a secondary work vehicle. I'll Paint tree service on the side of my sedan . you like that?
Maybe much less a jack rag, more like someone that you should have hired and let run the crew. But oh yeah, ' he doesn't have a high school diploma because he can't sit still in school ' LOL Your qualifications are ass rags
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