Jacking a leaning spruce

[teamtree]

he said it's a 60ft tree with 7% opposite lean.


i love it when people think they can control a tree with a 1" rope and 3 guys.

So you think it is better to jack a small tree?

You can do quite a bit with a 1/2" rope and 3 guys....even more with a 5 to 1 mechanical advantage or GRCS.....even more with a 12k winch or a 4X4 ton truck....or even a pick up

...however...I don't like pulling back leaners with guys....once it goes the wrong way you are done....a winch or truck will give you stability as well as more power

I would wait for the lady to go to the doctor and then cut the tree. Hell you could have the tree done before she gets back...lol...a little unprofessional but some neighbors need to get a grip on things and chill...

Hell, offer to buy the lady next door a nice dinner or give her a $100 and see if that helps.

 

[teamtree]

So you are saying....you don't have experience with jacking trees.....

what about big wood?.....lol

I have a book that explains jacking and what not..got it from Bailey's it was called "Professional Felling"....it just seems with a small tree (relatively speaking) the time you waste cutting your jack notch you could have pulled it with a rope without sacrificing much safety. In addition, with jacking, you don't have much control over side spins and flare pulls. IMHO jacking works best with really tall trees with a large dbh.

At any rate, try the jacking thing on a tree where you would normally just fell a tree with wedges and get some experience. In the past I would take on smaller jobs just to gain experience. I also cut all the trees on my property to experiement with all kinds of felling. Experience counts for something.

 

[bogiemsn]

As Teamtree said, you can find a brief description of how to jack a tree with back lean in Dent's, Professional Timber Felling. However there is not a lot of detail.

I guess if I were in your shoes and I REALLY wanted to try jacking I would experiment on a tree in an environment without the #####y neighbor. Sounds like a bad place to try something new.

Good luck.

 

[ShoerFast]

It seems a moot point with most here to say 'keep safe' ?

Might be surprised what a bottle-jack can lift.

Sorry for the small picture, but you can get an idea.

As suggested, next door to a grump it might not be the place to advance the learning curve?

Starting the back-cut enough to clear the bar from the notched out spot for the jack, start the jack.The jack base is fine, but you want a hardwood board at the top of the jack so it wont dig into the wood.
Plant a couple wedges next to the jack as the back-cut allows. Give yourself a wider hinge then you might use for a natural or for-leaner when you start putting pressure on the jack and wedges and sneak up on the henge wood as you increase the pressure.

When you see the top move with the lifting of the jack, your henge is good, finagle it over!

Where you can really appreciate the trick, cut a tree below a mountain trail that would fall away from the trail and further down-hill if you did not jack it over. Trick it into dropping on the trial so you can back a truck to the firewood, as opposed to grunting the firewood up hill to the trial. Learn ya quick how much work a jack can save!

 

[Fireaxman]

Does the trifor work work with different size ropes or just one size?

The Tirfor runs on its own cable. My cable is 100 feet, so I can pull 100 feet less connections and tie ins, but you can run as much of any kind of rope you want and hook the tirfor cable to the rope. It is best to use rope with a working load limit that exceeds the capacity of the tirfor so you dont get any nasty surprises if the rope breaks. I use 5/8 or 3/4" Stable Braid. In this pict the tirfor is rigged in a 2 part line with the stable braid run through the pulley.

Tirfors pull in a streight line with a set of brakes on the cable, they dont roll anything up on a drum. So pulling distance is only limited by how long a cable you want to carry around.

The tool is perfect for the kind of job you are talking about, where you cant get in or you have poor traction with motorized pulling equipment.

 

[joesawer]

I can't get any large equipment into the back yard where the spruce tree is located - just my 3' wide mini loader. Climbing the tree to set my 3/4" bull rope for pulling it over is not a problem. There is a 14" dbh pine located on the opposite side of the yard that I can place my redirect into.

While those of you who don't own mini skids would be surprised by how much pulling power they have, I do agree that, in this case, the mini alone will not pull this tree over. Not enough traction, not enough power.

Spruce typically are very predictable to hinge over as I expect this one to be. I just thought that a jack system might work better than wedges and pulling alone. Never tried jacking before so that's why I was looking for advice.

I think I'm going to look to see if I can get a second redirect set up in the front yard and use the truck to pull it over. My bull rope's only 150' though (don't usually need anything longer around here) so will have to see if it will reach - doubtful about that.

Are there any websites that have good info on jacking equipment and/or practices? Does sherill or baileys sell any jacking equipment?

Bailey's and other pro logging suppliers sell timber falling jacks, but you are looking at about $2000 for entry level 40 ton jack.
An automotive style jack is much heavier, does not have near the quality and no pressure guage to tell what you are lifting or what the tree is doing. It is much more likely to fail, especially if the tree sways in the breeze or you are fighting a thick hinge. (arborists like thick hinges). I also does not have a jack plate on the top so you need to make one out of steel in order to keep the fiber from compressing and tearing out.
When ever you use a jack,
1 Always cut a jack seat first
2 Then cut a kerf for you bar in front of it.
3 Then install the jacks and bring them up to pressure
4 Then cut your face
5 then advance the back cut towards the hinge
6 As you are advancing your back cut keep the pressure up on the jack. If you are useing an auto jack make sure to keep wedges tight also. I personally would be scared of one.
7 Do not cut past the predertimined hinge. Many trees have been jacked off the stump by putting too much lift on too fine of a hinge.
Remember small trees, 30" is small for a jack tree, can put as much or more pressure on a jack than larger ones.
Here is some pics of jacking trees over I posted last summer.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=69827

Having said all of that, You can never jack more than you can pull. If you have doubts about your pull, just set your line higher.
If the pine is big enough I would consider using it to anchor a Z rig and usse the mini loader to pull it over backed up with wedges. The loader could pull to its limit and then the tree could be advanced with wedges.

 

[StihlRockin']

I've made a big chunk of change in 20+ years pulling trees over with 1/2" & 3/4" rope and 2 guys... with NO mistakes. (have to be smart, use good judgment and trust your instincts)

Hard to say not knowing.

From what I quickly read, I would climb the tree along with my speed line, and as I ascend, zip the limbs to a designated spot to remove them as well as the weight, then when I neared the top, I would tie in the bull rope, then slide down.

This would remove much/most of the weight, then carefully cut the face cut and back cut it while ample force is being used to pull it over. Without seeing, that "force" is an unknown, but there's not that much weight in this scenario to reckon with now... plus ropes that high give an exponential advantage when pulling.

The mistakes I could see happening is pulling with too much force not letting the hinge work properly, busting it off before it determines it's direction...

OR...

While the pull is taking place, cut the back cut too much not allowing the hinge to work properly, cutting it prematurely which lets the tree fall in a much more undetermined direction.

StihlRockin'

 

[Fireaxman]

I've made a big chunk of change in 20+ years pulling trees over with 1/2" & 3/4" rope and 2 guys... with NO mistakes. (have to be smart, use good judgment and trust your instincts)

...The mistakes I could see happening is pulling with too much force not letting the hinge work properly, busting it off before it determines it's direction...

OR...

While the pull is taking place, cut the back cut too much not allowing the hinge to work properly, cutting it prematurely which lets the tree fall in a much more undetermined direction.

StihlRockin'

True.

Or...

Not cutting the face cut wide enough or the back cut deep enough, leaving too much hinge, then pulling with too much force, and snapping the tree off somewhere between the TIP and the cut.

 

[treevet]

It is hard to picture this but I would shoot a couple of big shots up top, send a couple of 5/8 double braids and put a block on the anchor tree and pull it over with the 2500 lb tracked MT50 (gaining a mech advantage). I would have a back up come a long on the other line. Make sure the anchor tree is protected with a mud flap or something to cya.

I'd save the jacking to practice when a house in back is not jeopardized.

 

[Rickytree]

I agree with Stihlrockin! eliminate the top weight and then chunk it down. I do jobs all the time that hang on my mind. It's good to have concern but you should believe in yourself. I haven't seen the tree(get a camera like normal people) but you get what I am sayin! In the words of the Great Tony Little "YOU CAN DO IT"

 

[arbo71]

Does the trifor work work with different size ropes or just one size?

Every size of a Tirfors has it´s own size of rope.

 

[moore tree serv]

why not just climb and rope the limbs and wood where you need to, then ask the grumpy neighbor if they would like you to clean up they're yard or leave it. I'm guessing they'll want it cleaned up.

 

[southsoundtree]

It seems a moot point with most here to say 'keep safe' ?

Might be surprised what a bottle-jack can lift.

Sorry for the small picture, but you can get an idea.

As suggested, next door to a grump it might not be the place to advance the learning curve?

Starting the back-cut enough to clear the bar from the notched out spot for the jack, start the jack.The jack base is fine, but you want a hardwood board at the top of the jack so it wont dig into the wood.
Plant a couple wedges next to the jack as the back-cut allows. Give yourself a wider hinge then you might use for a natural or for-leaner when you start putting pressure on the jack and wedges and sneak up on the henge wood as you increase the pressure.

When you see the top move with the lifting of the jack, your henge is good, finagle it over!

Where you can really appreciate the trick, cut a tree below a mountain trail that would fall away from the trail and further down-hill if you did not jack it over. Trick it into dropping on the trial so you can back a truck to the firewood, as opposed to grunting the firewood up hill to the trial. Learn ya quick how much work a jack can save!

Might want to strap around the upper portion to reduce the likelihood of the jack splitting the upper portion.

Otherwise, this is how I have done it.