KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
Thank you.
I've done some reading on this site and I must tip my hat to both Kuuma and the PSG guys that post here. Good info and healthy and respectful exchanges with no mud slinging.
Kuuma wood gasification furnace?
- Thread starter jimsbrain
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I've done some reading on this site and I must tip my hat to both Kuuma and the PSG guys that post here. Good info and healthy and respectful exchanges with no mud slinging.
At the risk of beating my own drum ( we pay for the privilege after all). All of our furnaces are EPA rated (meaning high efficiency, no creosote).
They also all have a glass door with superb air wash (meaning it stays clean). Most folks tell us they like a glass door since they dont have to open it to see what's going on. Contrary to another post statement, it does not affect efficiencies since more radiant heat is allowed to come trough the glass.
The Max Caddy is 85% efficient LHV. Provides you with the best warranty for wood furnace on the market. There is a hot water loop option, you can install an electric element and/or an oil burner to make it a stand alone furnace. The furnace is controlled by a computer with modulates the speed of the blower and is AC ready. It also works of a standard thermostat to control the heat.
If you are tight for room it also allows you to bring the cold air return on top, right or left. Among many other things.
We always have stock (no waiting) and is less expensive than the Kuuma. Hope this helps you in your search. If you have any questions let me know.
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lampmfg
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
Remember when making your choice that their is no EPA test for wood furnaces and only wood stoves. When an EPA test for wood furnaces becomes available we will be there waiting with open arms. I know that if I was researching efficiencies and emissions I would like to see actual test results which we have provided.
It seems like everytime I visit another manufacturers website I see a claimed efficiency rating with no proof. For example this week I was emailed by a potential customer seeing if our Kuuma Vapor-Fire could even compete with this 85% efficient furnace. It was hard to not laugh when responding to them.:msp_smile:
It seems like everytime I visit another manufacturers website I see a claimed efficiency rating with no proof. For example this week I was emailed by a potential customer seeing if our Kuuma Vapor-Fire could even compete with this 85% efficient furnace. It was hard to not laugh when responding to them.:msp_smile:
iowa
Addicted to ArboristSite
Don't know about anyone else here. But I don't mind waiting a little bit and buy a USA made product from great people. Even if they're from Minnesota! Lol. Guaranteed you will get great service and answers when you call AND talk to the man who designed and operates the joint!
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likesaws
ArboristSite Operative
Psg
Don't know about other stove here but I have a PSG Max Caddy.
It is a great stove, I like very much. Lots of heat not much wood.
Don't know about other stove here but I have a PSG Max Caddy.
It is a great stove, I like very much. Lots of heat not much wood.
Post some Pics if you can...
mizzou
ArboristSite Operative
I was on the kuuma website today(among many others), and I thought they offered a small viewing window. I could be wrong though. Seemed like a good furnace. Need to look at psg too.
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There are EPA wood boilers that claim over 100% efficiency.
Says more about the EPA methodology than anything else.
Just some comments, I am not saying it is not a good product but they need to review there advertising copy.
1. You can not burn wood without smoke, not even the most advanced lambada controlled German Boilers, it is just not possible.
2. I get worried when I see mention of sq ft as a heating load, Medieval Cathedral or Passivhaus? 10btu's per sq ft suggests nearer the latter.
3. I used to handle Intertek's Insurance programme, they would have tested it in accordance with their clients request to whatever standards specified. Now I am not saying it is the case here, but I remember reading that one OWB manufacturer used dimensional lumber for EPA testing. I am going to guess that this is not a common fuel for OWB's.
4. 10 hour burns with high efficiency, the Intertek results were on shorter burns, I would be interested to see how output varied with time, how well the controls managed variances in burn.
Just one question, something I had suppose but never looked into, I thought you needed 2000F for good gassification rather than 1000F?
Says more about the EPA methodology than anything else.
Just some comments, I am not saying it is not a good product but they need to review there advertising copy.
1. You can not burn wood without smoke, not even the most advanced lambada controlled German Boilers, it is just not possible.
2. I get worried when I see mention of sq ft as a heating load, Medieval Cathedral or Passivhaus? 10btu's per sq ft suggests nearer the latter.
3. I used to handle Intertek's Insurance programme, they would have tested it in accordance with their clients request to whatever standards specified. Now I am not saying it is the case here, but I remember reading that one OWB manufacturer used dimensional lumber for EPA testing. I am going to guess that this is not a common fuel for OWB's.
4. 10 hour burns with high efficiency, the Intertek results were on shorter burns, I would be interested to see how output varied with time, how well the controls managed variances in burn.
Just one question, something I had suppose but never looked into, I thought you needed 2000F for good gassification rather than 1000F?
Excellent Questions
1) EPA current methodology has nothing to do with efficiencies. It's all about emmissions. This will change in the next iteration probably in the next year or so.
2) I dont know about that boiler maker's claim to efficiencies. Depends what he's measuring. Heat exchange ability? Combustion? other parameters? Buyer beware if they do not provide what they are measuring to and to what standards.
3) It is possible to attain close to 100% efficiencies (LHV). Some European boiler MFG are close to it. But in order to do so they have to power vent it since there is not enough heat loss for natural draft. Plus they need complex electronics and stack dehumidifier in order to work properly. They are also very expensive. So your overall efficiencies and ROI is not really what it should be. If we are talking about efficiencies in terms of how much heat is retained in the house there are 3 different tests to measure this: Stack Loss, Low-Heating Value (LHV), High Heating Value (HHV). Wood stoves uses primarily Stack loss method, while furnaces and boilers uses LHV & HHV. We state both in our literature. Also keep in mind that in these 2 last methodology 'jacket loss' is not included. It means if a furnace is 80% efficient LHV it probably is even more since there is always heat radiating from the furnace itself (not in the exchanger). And since this heat stays in the house... Bonus!
4) It is possible to burn wood appliances without *visible* smoke. The current EPA emission standard for wood stoves is no more than 7.6 gr/hr. This is accomplished over 4 burn cycle. Most of that smoke is on start up. Once your firebox is up to temp you will not see any smoke. The new EPA standard for wood stove will likely be 4.5 gr/hr while for furnaces and boilers it will likely be 4.5 gr/Megajoule (gr/million BTU).
5) You are right... Sq ft specifications for wood stove is a rule of thumb at best since there are too many variables to really provide a good indication. For furnaces and boilers it is a better indicator since its a forced air unit (or Hydro unit).
6) You are also correct. Current EPA testing for wood stoves requires cribbed dimensional BC Fir. Remember they are measuring emissions not efficiencies or BTU output. The new EPA legislation will hopefully change that.
7) Lab tests for certifications are done with a minimum of 4 tests which are averaged. This is done under ideal conditions. Therefore Lab burn times are not indicative of the 'real' world. We've obtained 19Hrs burn time for the Max Caddy in the lab. However, we state 8-12 Hrs in our marketing material. Again too many variables to define what burn time really is.
8) The OP title is a misnomer. Neither the Kuuma or the PSG Caddy lines are gasification furnaces.
The problem with wood or rather the beauty of it is it's a non-standard fuel... Unlike gas or oil, each load, each cycle, each log is different. Therefore the difficulty to establish consumer specs such as burn time, sq ft etc...
Hope this helps.
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lampmfg
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
The picture you are taking about is of our wood sauna stoves, which we offer a glass window for viewing. We don't offer that with our Kuuma Vapor-Fire wood furnaces.
mizzou
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks for the clarification. I was zipping through that part of the site, sorry.
iowa
Addicted to ArboristSite
Don't know why you would want a window on a furnace. Usually people have them in their basement. I see my furnace twice a day. 6am and 10pm. Open-Load-Shut. Empty ashes out. 
Steve NW WI
Unwanted Riff Raff.
Don't know why you would want a window on a furnace. Usually people have them in their basement. I see my furnace twice a day. 6am and 10pm. Open-Load-Shut. Empty ashes out.
A window wouldn't make or break a deal for me, but I can sit and watch a fire for hours on end. It beats most of what's on the boob tube these days.
Garrett, here's a wild and crazy idea that I have no idea if it will work. How about a double paned window, regular stove glass for the inner window, and a glass with a one way mirror coating on the outside to reflect much of the heat back into the stove? If it works, you can pm me for an address to send the royalty checks to :cool2:
Don't know why you would want a window on a furnace. Usually people have them in their basement. I see my furnace twice a day. 6am and 10pm. Open-Load-Shut. Empty ashes out.
I sit in my basement next to the wood furnace sometimes, usually beer in hand haha
lampmfg
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
Steve NW WI
Unwanted Riff Raff.
I'll see what my dad says. Does 50% off all future furnace sales sound good??
Just send me the test unit, and I'll put the long term reliability testing hours on it for ya. We can negotiate from there...
brenndatomu
Hey you woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!
Dang Steve, that sounds like a pretty good idea! I bet it would work. Might not even have to be mirrored glass, just this new "low e" glass?
I put a 1-1/2" viewing port in the door of the Yukon just so I can see whats going on. I think seeing the fire helped shorten up my learning curve a little since it's my first year with 'er.
I s'pose there's not much of a learning curve on the Kuumas though, 1. load wood 2. strike match 3. set cruise control 4. reload wood once or twice a day. Boooriiiing! Doesn't sound like much fun if ya like to fiddle with yur stove!
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iowa
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dang Steve, that sounds like a pretty good idea! I bet it would work. Might not even have to be mirrored glass, just this new "low e" glass?
I put a 1-1/2" viewing port in the door of the Yukon just so I can see whats going on. I think seeing the fire helped shorten up my learning curve a little since it's my first year with 'er.
I s'pose there's not much of a learning curve on the Kuumas though, 1. load wood 2. strike match 3. set cruise control 4. reload wood once or twice a day. Doesn't sound like much fun if ya like to fiddle with yur stove!
If you like messing with knobs and buttons then the kuuma isn't the furnace for you!! However, I find it a nice feature. I have more time on my hands to play with my lovely wifes buttons and knobs!!!!
:hmm3grin2orange:
lampmfg
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
8) The OP title is a misnomer. Neither the Kuuma or the PSG Caddy lines are gasification furnaces.
[/QUOTE]
You don't have emissions of less than 1 gr/hr or over 99% combustion efficiency without gassifying the wood. However our's is not all at once, which is what makes it so unique...
[/QUOTE]
You don't have emissions of less than 1 gr/hr or over 99% combustion efficiency without gassifying the wood. However our's is not all at once, which is what makes it so unique...
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