Log skidding winch DIY

[dave_dj1]

I am starting this build thread in hopes of having all the info in one place.
I want a skidding winch for my old Ford tractor, I have access to some trees that were cut and left for a wildlife clearing.
My goal is to build this with "off the shelf" parts. I will list what parts I am using , where I got them and how much they cost. I am hoping to build this without much more than basic tools. I understand that a lot of us don't have access to a lathe or a mill or even a plasma cutter but most either have a torch set or know someone who could torch something out for them. I would like the winch itself to be of a modular system so it can be taken off the rack when not needed.
This project will progress fairly slowly so hang in there.
A while ago I bought this old Ford 3000, she ain't pretty but she is tight and runs great. 1965 Ford 3000 3 cylinder gas with select-o-speed transmission, 2 reverse gears and 10 forward with a front end loader that is in great shape. The poor thing is butt ugly as it has been painted no less than 7 times! The first thing I built for it was a carry all of sorts, it's more of a multi purpose thing, I have forks that go on it, a receiver hitch and some hooks welded on. I had planned to use it by itself to skid the logs but after searching the internet for pictures of logging winches I decided I could build one. The winch will be integrated into the carry all.
I would like to thank dancan and agvg for their help and inspiration.
Here is the carry all:

A few parts and pictures of what I am doing:
I started with these dental chair bases that we were scrapping out of a closed dental office, I kept them from a few years ago..lol They are 3/8" thick

I made a device to hold the plasma torch

ends of winch drum
circles are 12" diameter

this will be the locking wheel(one end of drum)

basic sketch of the idea

clutch disc will be sourced from Rock auto from a 1992 Suzuki Samuri (7 1/2" diameter) #99629D $17.45
You could use most any clutch disc that is under 12" diameter. This will be bolted to the sprocket.
center of drum
2 1/2" x .250 wall DOM tubing about 8" long, can be sourced locally or on line
weld in type x hub from surplus center 2" OD, 1.25" ID part# 1-2343 $5.65 (2)
roller bearing McMaster Carr 1" ID, 1.25 OD #5905K127 $11.69 (2)
I have a 1" chrome shaft from a scrapped hydraulic cylinder, you could use a 1" shaft sourced online

I am going to use #50 roller chain, a 12 tooth drive sprocket and a 60 tooth driven sprocket both sourced from Surplus Center
60 tooth sprocket 1-1980-60 $39.95
12 tooth sprocket 1-2124-12-E $5.85
#50 roller chain 1-1163-50 $18.95
More to follow as I get it going

 

[711ac]

...dental chairs, I love it!
Subscribed

 

[dave_dj1]

Today I drilled the 2 1/2" holes in the two plates. I used a Rigid holesaw and some oil, I was surprised at how easily they went. Now I need to find time to get to the metal store and get a piece of the DOM and order up some other parts. I wasn't feeling all that ambitious today so this is all I got accomplished.

 

[dancan]

Looking good !
The ramps/notches for the brake pawl are notched at a greater angle on my Iglands , more of a checkmark shape .

 

[dave_dj1]

I was worried about releasing the brake if they were too steep, I can grind them down some, thanks.
They are actually more acute than the picture shows. I'll take a better picture.

 

[dancan]

You don't have to worry about release , if the winch can't pull to release , just back the tractor .
It's not been an issue so far .

 

[mountainguyed67]

Cute little tractor.....

 

[farmer steve]

Cute little tractor.....

'
Dave,select-o-speed? no clutch just inching pedal right? should be a nice woods tractor with the lower gears for hauling logs.

 

[GVS]

'
Dave,select-o-speed? no clutch just inching pedal right? should be a nice woods tractor with the lower gears for hauling logs.

Select-O-Speed:10 fwd gears,2 reverse,Inching pedal(no clutch),independant PTO.Wonderful X/Mis. if adjusted properly and all the gears work.Early models had no compression braking in certain gears(free wheeling).Replacement parts are VERY hard to come by and finding a competent mechanic to work on one gets more difficult with passing time.Some really sharp mech's.are making replacement parts.Check out "yesterdays tractors.com" for much more info on them.

 

[farmer steve]

Select-O-Speed:10 fwd gears,2 reverse,Inching pedal(no clutch),independant PTO.Wonderful X/Mis. if adjusted properly and all the gears work.Early models had no compression braking in certain gears(free wheeling).Replacement parts are VERY hard to come by and finding a competent mechanic to work on one gets more difficult with passing time.Some really sharp mech's.are making replacement parts.Check out "yesterdays tractors.com" for much more info on them.

we had a ford 901 with the SOS. with a mounted 2 row corn picker. the free wheeling you mention were in certain gears highlighted on the shifter.

 

[morewood]

I was worried about releasing the brake if they were too steep, I can grind them down some, thanks.
They are actually more acute than the picture shows. I'll take a better picture.

I agree with dan about the engagement notches on the spool. On the Igland, put the pawl to release, bump the clutch to allow the pawl room to release, done. You can make it engage as deeply as needed that way.

Shea

 

[dave_dj1]

I did read up on the SOS and yes there are 3 separate gears where it free wheels, ( i wanna say 3,6 &9) it says stay off of long down hills in those gears!
Yes, the first 4 or 5 gears are super low, I'm not thrilled with the two reverse gears however, they seem a bit high.
Yes it's called an inching pedal.
I have been to yesterdays tractor to do some research. I bought some parts there for my BIL's Massey that i just fixed. thanks.
I had never even heard of such a transmission until I bought this one. I'm no farmer.
I figure I'll try it, if it doesn't work to my expectations I will sell it and buy a 4x4 maybe less HP, the Ford 3000 is 47 hp, about 39 at the PTO. The loader is nice and tight.
Here's how I built the brake wheel, I drilled 1/2 holes, then cut the steel out. Like I said they are steeper and sharper than they look, I will grind them more into a check mark though, don't want to have the brake not work.

 

[farmer steve]

I did read up on the SOS and yes there are 3 separate gears where it free wheels, ( i wanna say 3,6 &9) it says stay off of long down hills in those gears!
Yes, the first 4 or 5 gears are super low, I'm not thrilled with the two reverse gears however, they seem a bit high.
Yes it's called an inching pedal.
I have been to yesterdays tractor to do some research. I bought some parts there for my BIL's Massey that i just fixed. thanks.
I had never even heard of such a transmission until I bought this one. I'm no farmer.
I figure I'll try it, if it doesn't work to my expectations I will sell it and buy a 4x4 maybe less HP, the Ford 3000 is 47 hp, about 39 at the PTO. The loader is nice and tight.
Here's how I built the brake wheel, I drilled 1/2 holes, then cut the steel out. Like I said they are steeper and sharper than they look, I will grind them more into a check mark though, don't want to have the brake not work.

3,6,9 sounds about right Dave. i'm trying to remember back 50 years. there is an old Ford dealer near me that has some old parts. if you need something i can check.

 

[kevin j]

We had a 941 SOS, small diesel. Lot of trouble, but went something like 24 mph in high. I mowed and cultivated a lot of acres with that.

What is the Samurai clutch disc being used for? as a brake? being directly on the drum shaft, the torque capacity will be pretty low. Can you get it to the motor shaft? or is this PTO driven?

 

[dave_dj1]

We had a 941 SOS, small diesel. Lot of trouble, but went something like 24 mph in high. I mowed and cultivated a lot of acres with that.

What is the Samurai clutch disc being used for? as a brake? being directly on the drum shaft, the torque capacity will be pretty low. Can you get it to the motor shaft? or is this PTO driven?

The Zuke clutch will be used to engage the drum to the sprocket IE: the sprocket will be turning when the PTO is on, then via a set of cams and a lever the drum will be forced over against the clutch disc thereby turning the drum and pulling the line in. I had considered using brake pads from something like a side by side or even a street bike, maybe 5 or 6 of them hooked to the sprocket but then I had the clutch idea. The holding brake are the notches, a lever will drop into one to hold the drum from backing up.

 

[dave_dj1]

3,6,9 sounds about right Dave. i'm trying to remember back 50 years. there is an old Ford dealer near me that has some old parts. if you need something i can check.

Good to know farmer steve, I will certainly keep that in mind. One nice thing is the tractor came with a brand new Ford manual, it's actually 4 books in a big ring binder. I just haven't taken the time to look through it yet. One day this winter I will, or when I need to...lol

 

[kevin j]

The Zuke clutch will be used to engage the drum to the sprocket


Unsolicited advice, but I don't think your clutch will transmit anywhere enough torque to do what you want.

The torque you need is the line pull you want, times the radius from center of shaft out to the wrap of the cable. Just picking a number, say 3000 lbf at 10 inch diameter, then the shaft torque is 3000 x 5 inch radius = 15,000 in-lbf. Divide by 12 to convert in-lbf to ft-lbf = 1250 ft-lbf.

Now, assuming the Sammy has maybe 60 hp at 6000 rpm?
Since hp = (ft-lbf x rpm ) / 5252, rearranging the terms, gives. torque ft-lbs = (hp x 5252) / rpm

T = ( 60 x 5252) / 6000 is about 52 ft-lbf of torque that the sammy engine might pass through the clutch. This is with pretty strong pressure plate, and gripping both sides of the disc not just one side.
You want something like 1250 ft-lbf, the sammy clutch is designed for 50 or 60 ft-lbf. 25 or 30 if you use only one side. Not looking good.

If you put the clutch on the small sprocket shaft, and use both sides with a pressure plate, you immediately gain a 5:1 increase. I.e. 60 ft-lbf x 5:1 increase, but still only about 300. Short of the 1250 you want by a long ways still.

I'd probably use a hydraulic drive motor with a couple stages of roller chain reductions. Easy to control and reverse, and easy to limit torque with a relief valve across the ports. I'd put a counterbalance valve to hold position (in addition to your notches and pawls) but that's another discussion.

Staying with the cheap and junkyard approach, assuming you have free labor and tools/skills, you might be able to use the clutch and transmission off some small car. Drive the pto through the clutch, then run the transmission in lower gears, then use a roller chain for more reduction. You don't want much rpm, but want high torque. Probably only putting 5 or 10 hp into the drive because of such a slow speed.

Down side: unless you could find/make an overcenter clutch that will stay in or out, the automotive clutch will be engaged if anything fails in the linkages. You have to put force into it to disengage. This isn't so safe but could be done.

Personally, I'd go with the hydraulic motor drive, running off the remote of the tractor, and operated from the cab, away from the line of fire of the cable. Or add a STRONG wire mesh safety screen between you and the winch. Steel cable is not supposed to stretch much, but I've seen the results of breaking 3/4 and 1 inch ropes on our old railroad winch carts. (GMC 6-71T, about 60,000 to 80,000 lbf line pull) that we built in the 80's to pull plows and sleds along under the railroad tracks. One operator lost part of his skull and had permanent TBI from a cable end.

Not trying to torpedo your plans, but just prevent a lot of work and rework and still disappointment. I think it's a great tool to have and you should keep on with bulding it.

 

[farmer steve]

funny how things pop up .
Dave you'll need some blue paint when you get done with the winch.
https://york.craigslist.org/grd/d/ford-4000-select-speed/6315800516.html

 

[dave_dj1]

Kevin J, I appreciate your input. Have you looked at the Farmi winch? http://www.farmiwinch.com/products/farmi-winch-features-benefits/ They use a clutch exactly like I am wanting. Maybe I should just buy their clutch as it's available at a reasonable price. Perhaps there is something different in their material? I certainly don't want a big failure. I could use the clutch disc out or a 90's Camaro with a v8, would that change things? The only reason I chose the Zulke clutch was because of price. I can go all the way up to a 11.5" disc. Yes I have the tools and the know how to get it all done. I enjoy doing stuff like this, yes I could buy one but where is the fun and savings in that? I'm just a redneck engineer...lol. Hydraulics are out of the question right now, I'm not opposed the them per se but it would cost me a lot more money. Now if I stumbled onto a hydraulic donor (old splitter or something) then maybe.

Farmersteve, I have been picking away at my tractors many coats of paint with plans of giving her a proper paint job. I want to take the loader off so I can get the inside of the arms cleaned up properly.
From what I can tell the loader arms were originally white, my buddy who is a die hard Ford man says I should paint them blue, really makes no difference to me. I think the rims will be white with blue centers, I don't have any fenders but I think when I do they will be white too. Thanks for the input

 

[dave_dj1]

kevin j
I just found this info page and will read it later after work.
http://www.manticclutch.com/clamp_v_torque