I work on this stuff every day. The biggest problem I have with Mtronics is dropping them out of a tree.
M-Tronic - Avoid? Or Acquire?
- Thread starter Levi of the North
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NHden
ArboristSite Member
Have you lost any to running lean? Have you had any where the logical part to replace was rejected by the "system"?
Certainly in the minority, but still there are a number of pros out there who cannot get a given saw to idle, or it dies in the cut, or it just dies. In some cases they have to resort to moving solenoids, ignition modules and carbs around ... not a good direction to go.
And if you change ANY part of the Mtronics system, I think you need to run reset/cal. Without this, the parts may be running on stored values that apply to an old part, not the new one. Would you agree?
These things tune them selves extremely fast, and even if you do want to do a reset it's very easy to do.
NHden
ArboristSite Member
Stihl in the UK has an interesting blog entitled "STIHL M-Tronic technology – dispelling the myths".
It has a few interesting tidbits but for the most part, replies advise bringing it to a Stihl dealer. This is not what those of us who maintain our own equipment want to hear.
What we need from Stihl are:
* designs that are DONE and have been thoroughly tested, not three or four revisions of a problematic solenoid/valve
* guaranteed availability of parts for XX years after product is discontinued.
* this would require Stihl to warehouse more parts which I doubt will happen. When you need a part and there is 1 at the warehouse or none and no ordering advised, you are literally left "up a tree" holding a pro saw / door stop
* public access to documenta for diagnosis and repair
* meaningful warrantees on all products
I just paid top dollar for two top handle saws and because I'm a homeowner, there is ZERO warranty. Total BS, borderline criminal IMHO. Stihl is telling me that their cost of my saw sitting on the shelf for 9 days out of 10 is higher than the pro who drops it from a 100ft tree. Warranty coverage should be the same for both with the option to purchase extensions for a fair price.
It has a few interesting tidbits but for the most part, replies advise bringing it to a Stihl dealer. This is not what those of us who maintain our own equipment want to hear.
What we need from Stihl are:
* designs that are DONE and have been thoroughly tested, not three or four revisions of a problematic solenoid/valve
* guaranteed availability of parts for XX years after product is discontinued.
* this would require Stihl to warehouse more parts which I doubt will happen. When you need a part and there is 1 at the warehouse or none and no ordering advised, you are literally left "up a tree" holding a pro saw / door stop
* public access to documenta for diagnosis and repair
* meaningful warrantees on all products
I just paid top dollar for two top handle saws and because I'm a homeowner, there is ZERO warranty. Total BS, borderline criminal IMHO. Stihl is telling me that their cost of my saw sitting on the shelf for 9 days out of 10 is higher than the pro who drops it from a 100ft tree. Warranty coverage should be the same for both with the option to purchase extensions for a fair price.
You claim you need all that from Stihl, yet you just bought two saws from them, without all that.
Sounds like Stihl is doing just fine with their current business model.
NHden
ArboristSite Member
I know, I know. One is a 151TCE, no Mtronics. The other is the 201TC-M. All I can say is ...
But I do feel bad for pros trying to do a days work and their saw is laid up for weeks or longer.
I won't own a saw without Mtronic or Autotune. These systems had some teething problems but this was years ago. They are dead simple and very easy to work on. And they are of great benefit to your average guy who can't and doesn't ever tune their carbs.
You do realize it's a carb with a solenoid on it? It has all the same fault modes as a regular carb saw, you don't need stihl for anything. The wiring harness is basic as it gets, the ignition moduels are just as robust as the non m-tronic saws, and the solenoid isnt really that expensive. A handful of parts is really all you need, and anyone that services their own saws will have them on hand anyway. Not that I'd want to mess with them in the field, but it's not any harder to work on then a regular carbed saw.I know, I know. One is a 151TCE, no Mtronics. The other is the 201TC-M. All I can say is ...
But I do feel bad for pros trying to do a days work and their saw is laid up for weeks or longer.
Wow, sounds like 1980 at the GM dealership. And now it is old hat.
Realize that Mtronic is 10 to 15 years old already. Diagnosis has greatly improved. It is not complicated. M tronic lasts just as long as non Mtronic when maintained .
The newer solenoids, correct sparkplug, good wiring, and the orange fuel filter have made a world of difference.
Love or not, it is here and works well. You can shun it or embrace it. I always choose the latter as I want to know how things work.
Realize that Mtronic is 10 to 15 years old already. Diagnosis has greatly improved. It is not complicated. M tronic lasts just as long as non Mtronic when maintained .
The newer solenoids, correct sparkplug, good wiring, and the orange fuel filter have made a world of difference.
Love or not, it is here and works well. You can shun it or embrace it. I always choose the latter as I want to know how things work.
It’s not about shunning it, it’s about not needing it - unnecessary electronics and parts = long term expense, when a screw driver can do exactly the same thing… I know which I’d rather take.
Edit: I am comfortable with tuning and do it almost daily on the engines I service and repair , if someone was not sure how to, sure get m-tronic. It can take a while to learn to tune.
Edit: I am comfortable with tuning and do it almost daily on the engines I service and repair , if someone was not sure how to, sure get m-tronic. It can take a while to learn to tune.
The average person simply can't tune a carb or is even knowledgeable enough to know its required on a daily basis for best performance.
I'm not going back to screw drivers...
People complained when EFI started taking over in vehicles, and now basically everyone has happily adopted EFI, wouldn't consider anything else, and would be very annoyed if they had to go back to a carb'd daily driver. Reliability hasn't proven to be a concern, and the benefits of EFI GREATLY outweigh the greater complexity over the glorified perfume atomizer.
Still a vocal minority of carburetor holdouts, who are happy to drive 70's vehicles the rest of their life. We're seeing the same thing in saws.
Still a vocal minority of carburetor holdouts, who are happy to drive 70's vehicles the rest of their life. We're seeing the same thing in saws.
NHden
ArboristSite Member
You make good points but we're talking Stihl, not Volvo, Toyota or Ford.
The solenoid / valve / linear servomotor that's controlling fuel delivery does not have a very good life on paper when it is being operated 30 times per second by the micro.
Also, in my area at least, there are not many competent Stihl repair people and probably fewer qualified for Mtronics. Also, I have ZERO warranty on my two, new top handle saws as a homeowner.
My preference would be to have no electronics in a gas chainsaw. That ship has sailed.
Just hope that the saws last and when they do break, that I can get parts. Already ran into two parts on the 151T that I can't buy in the US. That's a separate issue.
And no, I would not trade my turbo, fuel injected vehicle for my 70's.
The solenoid / valve / linear servomotor that's controlling fuel delivery does not have a very good life on paper when it is being operated 30 times per second by the micro.
Also, in my area at least, there are not many competent Stihl repair people and probably fewer qualified for Mtronics. Also, I have ZERO warranty on my two, new top handle saws as a homeowner.
My preference would be to have no electronics in a gas chainsaw. That ship has sailed.
Just hope that the saws last and when they do break, that I can get parts. Already ran into two parts on the 151T that I can't buy in the US. That's a separate issue.
And no, I would not trade my turbo, fuel injected vehicle for my 70's.
Your top handles have a 90 day warranty, like all other pro equipment. Top handles are considered pro equipment, even if bought by a homeowner, because Stihl thinks that only pros should operate top handle saws.
If your dealer wouldn't register them and give you the 90 day warranty, contact Stihl directly. Went through similar Micky Mouse bologna when I bought my 500i.
If your dealer wouldn't register them and give you the 90 day warranty, contact Stihl directly. Went through similar Micky Mouse bologna when I bought my 500i.
There's enough real world experience with the system that opinions based "on paper" are irrelevant.
NHden
ArboristSite Member
Thank you! This may prove to be precious at some point. Their "limited contract" is pretty specific though but certainly worth a fight.
added / corrected: there are "limited emissions warranty" documents for various models. These contain a nice long list of parts that are considered part of emissions and therefore get a longer warranty. It appears to be 2 years and includes labor for the emissions parts, if they are found defective. If they are not found defective, I think you will get billed for diagnosis.
NHden
ArboristSite Member
Paper is where it starts but the real world is where you throw bar lube, oil & fuel and wood chips at it.
The revisions were to absorb what the real world threw at it. Your supplier is extremely critical. Zama can probably make carbs all day and night but a precise linear actuator is another beast. (linear is an assumption, it could still be a rotary solenoid for limited angles of rotation at least)
You are speculating. The system has proven to be reliable for some time.
Get one and keep and old one, then you have the best of both !
NHden
ArboristSite Member
I wish. The 200T I refurbed was for me but then I used it as a bank for the 201TC-M.
I'm getting mixed signals on the M-tronics and am guessing it is just peoples experiences. If yours have been running for years without trouble, saving time on tuning, you're gonna praise it. If diagnostics have been much longer, perhaps not reimbursed fully, you're gonna cuss it.
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