Meteor Cylinder Quality

[Rudolf73]

I agree, aftermarket cylinders should always be inspected and modified it necessary.

My question is though, if you port an aftermarket cylinder with the same numbers you would use on OEM... where does the difference in power come in?

 

[wigglesworth]

So is there any aftermarket cylinder you guys would recommend for a 440/460 build? NWP? Just curious, I have one to do this weekend, I was about to order a Meteor kit! Thanks for your post.

Any aftermarket kit you buy is gonna take some extra work to make a runner out of it. Period. An oem, less work. I'm thinking seriously about giving a 372 meteor kit a try. If I ever get caught up that is.

Several years ago a friend of mine put a "BB" kit on a pretty nice 440. It ran so poorly he thought me messed something up on the install.

The BB kits have never impressed me, save for a few 372BB's.

 

[bucknfeller]

That sounds about right.

I've also recently had a few issues with pre-assembled MS390 engine blocks. The crank seals were not installed correctly, and the cylinder base and clamshell were not properly sealed. Apparently the cylinder base was covered with assembly lube and wasn't cleaned before the gasket sealant was applied. This obviously caused the block to have massive air leaks.

Yeah I just got my first 390 shortblock in, it was advertised as unassembled so I ordered a set of OEM clips and rings. To my surprise the kit came assembled. I have been debating on whether or not to tear it down and swap out the clips and rings and re-seal it or to let it go as is. Also noticed this kit has a 1 year warranty, any idea if tearing it down would void that?

 

[sawfun9]

I dunno about the 440's and 460's but the Baileys 090 piston and cylinders are great. They are easier to pull over but read the same on the compression guage and will pull a 96" bar buried. Maybe after a few months of daily service the Baileys one would start flaking but most 090's don't get used that much, or often. So not all of the Chinese aftermarket stuff is bad.

 

[blsnelling]

The ports on the ones I've held in my hands (several now) have been on par, in fact nearly identical to every other aftermarket cylinder I've seen. They all need a bit of clean up, and thats a fact. That said, the plating has been on par with OEM, with exception to the lack of plating around the top, but alot of OEM are the same way. After some clean up in one of the 460 kits I had, just clean up, not porting, it was an great runner. Was it OEM strong? I dunno, as i didnt have a stock one to compare, but felt good and ran great. I gave that kit away, and the new owner ported it and made a great runner. He sold it and its still running today in fact, and in the log woods no less, earning money daily.

I personally would not do a bolt and go with em. They need a bit of love for sure. But for a cheap alternative to the high price of OEM, they definetly have potential. And from what I've been told, the quality has seen improvement since the ones I've had. Plating all the way up, and nicer looking ports. I've not seen one yet though, but I know of a 372 being built with one as we speak. I'm anxious to see the outcome.

Jeremy, that was a fantastic post. The problem is, these kits will most often be bought by the person that needs a simple bolt on. The cylinder I ported was the 460. I ported it, and it didn't make near the power OEM does. Whether it was the transfer passages or something else, I don't know. It was going on a raffle saw, and it wasn't what I wanted to put out there for you guys.

Yeah I just got my first 390 shortblock in, it was advertised as unassembled so I ordered a set of OEM clips and rings. To my surprise the kit came assembled. I have been debating on whether or not to tear it down and swap out the clips and rings and re-seal it or to let it go as is. Also noticed this kit has a 1 year warranty, any idea if tearing it down would void that?

You definately want to pull the base cap and reseal it up. From what I hear, you'll need to put sealant on the OD of the seals as well in order to stop all air leaks. If it were me, I'd only use the P&C from the kit, and use the original crank, bottom pan, and OEM seals.

 

[blsnelling]

I dunno about the 440's and 460's but the Baileys 090 piston and cylinders are great. They are easier to pull over but read the same on the compression guage and will pull a 96" bar buried. Maybe after a few months of daily service the Baileys one would start flaking but most 090's don't get used that much, or often. So not all of the Chinese aftermarket stuff is bad.

Some of the kits are much better than the others. The best I've seen are the 066BB kits. That's likely because more of them are sold, and they've now been through several revisions, getting better each time. Even a few of these still go out bad though. This 460 Meteor kit was the worst I've seen, by far. It amazes me that Meteor would want their name on these cylinders. Their pistons are just that good.

 

[kevinm9558]

So is there any aftermarket cylinder you guys would recommend for a 440/460 build? NWP? Just curious, I have one to do this weekend, I was about to order a Meteor kit! Thanks for your post.

For what it's worth-
I'm in the same boat you are boss, although I don't have a time limit on mine. That's how I found this website though, looking for info on the meteor kits. So far, the good doesn't outweigh the bad. Just like they said earlier, what I've found (and for fairness sake, I'm just restating what I've learned through researching on the web) the Meteor cylinders are just Taiwanese parts shipped over to Italy for a higher quality plating job. To answer your question, NWP from what I understand is just the Taiwanese part not shipped to Italy, but also plated in Taiwan (or thereabouts). READ-poor quality...
So now what?
I've found a few used OE cylinders (Mahle) on ebay for the same price as the new Meteor head, and also I posted an ad on the forum here looking for some parts, and got a couple responses from others with a used OE head that they had lying around.
So for what it's worth, I'm gonna hold out for a used Mahle; I just don't have the funds to experiment with the Meteor head and hope it works out all right.:coins:

 

[kevinm9558]

Some of the kits are much better than the others. The best I've seen are the 066BB kits. That's likely because more of them are sold, and they've now been through several revisions, getting better each time. Even a few of these still go out bad though. This 460 Meteor kit was the worst I've seen, by far. It amazes me that Meteor would want their name on these cylinders. Their pistons are just that good.

That surprises me, that a manufacturer could (or would) put out higher quality parts for different models. Seems like they would manufacture to the same standard for everything (at least for the same part). But who am I to judge? I've never seen one! I am happy to hear it though, as I am in the process of rebuilding my 066 right now.
So for clarification, are you saying the BB kit for the 066 is a great quality part, or just that its the best aftermarket head you've seen for the 066 but still needs work to be of the same OE quality?

 

[nmurph]

The recent 066BB kits are nice as well as some 372BB kits I have used.

 

[bucknfeller]

The 440 I am doing this weekend has the threads stripped out of the spark plug hole, other than that it's a good cylinder. The owner of the saw has heard some of his buddies negative comments toward heli-coils so he wanted me to find a quality aftermarket p/c and go that route, now this thread has me thinking I should try to save the OEM jug if possible. I have heard of some other bushing type thread repair that you drill and tap for then screw it in and use a mandrel to set the knurling, does anyone here have experience with these?

 

[Mastermind]

I sell these kits......but they have to be massaged a bit first.

The jug you posted was butt ugly huh Brad?

 

[Jacob J.]

The 440 I am doing this weekend has the threads stripped out of the spark plug hole, other than that it's a good cylinder. The owner of the saw has heard some of his buddies negative comments toward heli-coils so he wanted me to find a quality aftermarket p/c and go that route, now this thread has me thinking I should try to save the OEM jug if possible. I have heard of some other bushing type thread repair that you drill and tap for then screw it in and use a mandrel to set the knurling, does anyone here have experience with these?

A properly done heli-coil is a good repair. I've seen spark plug helicoils that I've installed last for years in landing saws- a logging landing being the most abusive environment that a saw will operate in. The negative connotation associated with heli-coils mostly comes from people without the patience or fine touch to install them correctly. If you want to try another used 440 OEM jug, I have a whole pile of them. You're welcome to one for the cost of shipping it.

 

[bucknfeller]

A properly done heli-coil is a good repair. I've seen spark plug helicoils that I've installed last for years in landing saws- a logging landing being the most abusive environment that a saw will operate in. The negative connotation associated with heli-coils mostly comes from people without the patience or fine touch to install them correctly. If you want to try another used 440 OEM jug, I have a whole pile of them. You're welcome to one for the cost of shipping it.

I agree about the helicoils, if it were my own saw that's what it would get. I have done a couple saws for friends with no issues. That was the first thing I suggested when the customer told me his problem and he immediatly said NO HELICOIL! I appreciate the offer on a used jug, I may have to take you up on that if I can't make him happy with a thread repair.

 

[Andyshine77]

Time Serts work even better than heli-coils IMHO.

Don't get me wrong these aftermarket top ends are viable, but like most have said, they more often than not, need a little attention before they're 100%. In fact I put an aftermarket on a 441 this passed summer, and honestly it wasn't all that bad looking.

 

[bucknfeller]

Time Serts work even better than heli-coils IMHO.

Don't get me wrong these aftermarket top ends are viable, but like most have said, they more often than not, need a little attention before they're 100%. In fact I put an aftermarket on a 441 this passed summer, and honestly it wasn't all that bad looking.

What brand cyl. did you use on that 441? The only problem I have with dressing up a cylinder is that most of my work comes from people who are trying to avoid the high cost of OEM parts and ridiculous labor rates at their dealers. In most cases the saws wouldn't be worth fixing if the dealer did the work. So if I spend too much time polishing a turd the bill is going to have to reflect that, can't work for free ya know!

 

[blsnelling]

I sell these kits......but they have to be massaged a bit first.

Way to go on "blueprinting" them before selling them. It's a shame that has to be done, but I suppose it's still cheaper than new OEM.

 

[Mastermind]

Way to go on "blueprinting" them before selling them. It's a shame that has to be done, but I suppose it's still cheaper than new OEM.

I've not gotten a 460 kit yet but the 372 kit is pretty good right outta the box.

 

[Andyshine77]

What brand cyl. did you use on that 441? The only problem I have with dressing up a cylinder is that most of my work comes from people who are trying to avoid the high cost of OEM parts and ridiculous labor rates at their dealers. In most cases the saws wouldn't be worth fixing if the dealer did the work. So if I spend too much time polishing a turd the bill is going to have to reflect that, can't work for free ya know!

The top end was from Northwood-Saw. All I did was replace the circlips with oem. The cylinder wasn't perfect to say the least, but it was fully functional and the coating looked quite nice actually. The problem again is the fact you need to know what you're doing, and what to look for. Say for instance, what would happen if one of the ports didn't have a nice chamfer? you'd snag a ring. I've seen some of these kits with no chamfer, and some with huge. Some cylinders had completely flat ports, not good.

 

[bucknfeller]

Touching up chamfer is one thing, but if I got one as ugly as those in the pics I would be highly disappointed. For the time it would take to put those in to useable condition you'd be better off to buy a new OEM.

 

[Mad Professor]

Any aftermarket kit you buy is gonna take some extra work to make a runner out of it. Period. An oem, less work. I'm thinking seriously about giving a 372 meteor kit a try. If I ever get caught up that is.



The BB kits have never impressed me, save for a few 372BB's.

Wiggles,

ever played with a Tecomec?

Have looke at a 038M kit, the piston comparison is a OEM shop worn 038S vs tecomec 038M

My 038M kits have been as good as OEM Mahle, for me.

Lakeside/Andy mentioned they were a Stihl OEM supplier

Too bad they only make kits for a few saws. : (

You can get separate pistons now too. : )

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/116179.htm