Minimum amount to run saws?

[hendr1x]

Hello everyone,
I have a few saws at this stage and some sit longer than others. How often should I be running them minimum to make sure they are properly care for? I assume simply starting them and idling them is not enough....I have to put them to work right?

Thanks for any thoughts on proper storage/long term care you have.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Don't use pump gas with ethanol to store tools especially handheld ones.

 

[pdqdl]

Wild speculation on my part? Not less often than every 6 months. Once every 3 or 4 months would certainly be often enough.

Give 'em a full tank of high quality fuel, prime it, start it long enough to get hot and burn with a relatively clean exhaust, then dump the gas out and run it out of fuel. Catch the dumped fuel for putting into the next machine. Repeat as needed for each idle machine. End by putting the remaining fuel in an often used machine, your two-cycle gas can, or into your daily ride.

If it is just a variety of chainsaws, just make sure you don't always stick to your favorite. Keep track of last use on each.

 

[Bearcreek]

I've had saws sit for over a year and then start up and run like new. The key is to use non ethanol gas.

 

[pdqdl]

It's a bit cooler up in Eye-dee-hoe. Your gasoline might store a bit better than ours because it doesn't get cooked as much.

 

[Sidecarflip]

Use caned gas, like Echo Red Armor instead. Shelf life is over a year, All I use in my not too often used saws.

 

[Bearcreek]

It's a bit cooler up in Eye-dee-hoe. Your gasoline might store a bit better than ours because it doesn't get cooked as much.

Could be, although it could be argued that temp swings have more negative effects than consistent temps one way or the other. It's quite common for us to have 20-30 degree (or more) swings in temperature in a 12 hour period. We've had as much as a 75 degree swing in temperature in a few days. I run exclusively non ethanol fuel in all my small engines. Obviously, saws should be stored somewhere out of the sun and rain/snow. It's certainly a good idea to run saws every so often, but I think, all else being equal, a person who used exclusively non ethanol fuel and ran their saw once a year is going to have better luck than someone who used ethanol fuel and ran their saw every few months.

 

[pdqdl]

It is true that the high plains and rocky mountains have greater than average daily temperature swings. As does any desert area, which also tends to be hotter than average.

Funny thing is, I can remember a lot of stale gas problems long before anyone thought about adding ethanol to it. I believe that the fundamental reason gasoline goes stale is because the more volatile parts simply evaporate quicker. Furthermore, some of the gasoline combines with oxygen to form varnish, which really messes up a carburetor. Over time, that gasoline just doesn't burn as well.

Now some of you might want to know that ethanol does not contribute to any of that oxidation/varnish problem. It does, however, combine with atmospheric water, which can lead to phase separation and water deposits in your gasoline. Particularly when the ethanol can evaporate away and abandon the water at the bottom of your tank.

The best way to keep fresh gas is to run it out of your machine's fuel tank and then store it in one of these:



In addition to not spilling fuel when they get tipped over, the tank holds in the gas vapors much better from the daily temperature cycles and thereby reduces the air exchange rate and oxidation of the fuel.

 

[spuldup]

I have had success with Stabil 360 and 93 octane ethanol gas. I mix it 1 gallon at a time and use it within 3 months, usually less. Rotating saws is also a good tip. The 1 gallon can is also a sealed type. You need to keep them out of the sun of you have a pressurized gas can.

 

[Sidecarflip]

Only thing I use Marine blue Stabil 360 in is the 4 stroke power equipment. never in a 2 stroke engine.

 

[ericm979]

Hello everyone,
I have a few saws at this stage and some sit longer than others. How often should I be running them minimum to make sure they are properly care for? I assume simply starting them and idling them is not enough....I have to put them to work right?

Empty the fuel tanks and run the carbs dry at idle. Emptying the oil tanks would be a good idea if they're going to sit for a long time. All my saws leak oil when sitting. I think daily temperature changes have something to do with it.

 

[Sidecarflip]

Never seen a saw that don't pee bar oil when sitting. Why I keep them on shop towels when sitting. Once the towels get saturated, the head for the burn pile.

... and again, canned fuel for the win. I quit using pump gas a long time ago actually.

 

[William Wallace]

Never seen a saw that don't pee bar oil when sitting. Why I keep them on shop towels when sitting. Once the towels get saturated, the head for the burn pile.

... and again, canned fuel for the win. I quit using pump gas a long time ago actually.

I've never seen a Stihl or a clone saw that doesn't leak bar oil, but I have had a 350, 460 ranch, and currently own 550xp mk2, 572, 592 Husqvarna's and not a single one of them ever leaked more than a drop of oil (which was on the chain/bar when set down) so there are plenty of saws that don't leak.
But as to the engine/fuel issue I typically run my saws from spring through summer and then they sit through the fall/winter and I've never had any issues, just use non-ethanol 90 octane pump gas and the Husqvarna XP+ oil that has a fuel stabilizer and I put them away however they were last shut off so full/empty/partial fill of tank doesn't matter but I do store them all indoors in heated/air conditioned room.
Just my personal experience that ethanol is the real killer when sitting and a fuel stabilizer is probably going to help too.

 

[fields_mj]

Every engine that I've used Stabil in (all 4 of them) has died within 2 years of using the product. I run non-ethanol fuel in everything now. With 2 cycle, I can pick it up after 12 months and not have any issues.

 

[pdqdl]

My research indicates that ethanol isn't really a big factor in fuel going stale. While the ethanol is volatile enough to escape the mixture, the biggest problem is the oxidation of the remaining fuel after the volatile elements have evaporated. When fuel is missing the volatile elements, then it simply doesn't ignite as well.

Ethanol is bad for the chemistry of carburetor diaphragms, though. I would hope that the manufacturers have improved their gasket materials enough to be impervious to the ethanol by now, but it was certainly an issue a few years back. Regardless of the influence on the carb diaphragms, that is unrelated to the long term stability of the fuel.

How the various fuel stabilizers work, I do not know. I'm not sure how anything can reduce the volatility of a fuel, but I can understand how they might reduce the oxygenation of the fuel.

 

[ericm979]

When they first started putting ethanol in gas there were some fuel system components that could not handle it. But that was over 30 years ago! Everything that isn't vintage should be fine in that regard.

The problem with ethanol is that under low temperatures and when there is water in the fuel, phase separation can happen. That's where the alcohol that is dissolved in the gasoline comes out of solution. The ethanol and water sink to the bottom and the gasoline floats on top. The water/ethanol mix can then attack or gum up fuel system parts in a way that dissolved ethanol or water doesn't.

But it happens at lower temperatures than we get here, so I have not seen it. Water in the fuel makes phase separation easier, so proper storage is important.

Modern gasolines have reduced the volatile components to reduce smog from evaporation. Those volatiles are needed for cold starts. If you loose too much of the volatile component, the engine won't start. Gas that's been stored so that it can evaporate will slowly go bad from loss of the volatiles. That has nothing to do wit ethanol, but often ethanol gets blamed for that too.

 

[pdqdl]

I wasn't aware of lower volatiles in modern gas. How do they compensate to keep the cars running in cold weather? I know from experience that the modern cars start better in the cold than the old ones did back in the day when they were new and the gas had neither alcohol nor reduced volatiles in it. Maybe tetra-ethyl lead?

EDIT: Tetra-ethyl lead was used to eliminate detonation in fuel back in the day. I suppose when they removed the TEL from the gas, they had to do something to reduce the knocking. I always thought that was why they started adding the alcohol; it too raises the octane and reduces knocking. I was not aware of the other changes in volatile compounds.

 

[Bill G]

It seems this has turned into another of the countless ethanol debate threads.

 

[Del_]

When they first started putting ethanol in gas there were some fuel system components that could not handle it. But that was over 30 years ago! Everything that isn't vintage should be fine in that regard.

The problem with ethanol is that under low temperatures and when there is water in the fuel, phase separation can happen. That's where the alcohol that is dissolved in the gasoline comes out of solution. The ethanol and water sink to the bottom and the gasoline floats on top. The water/ethanol mix can then attack or gum up fuel system parts in a way that dissolved ethanol or water doesn't.

But it happens at lower temperatures than we get here, so I have not seen it. Water in the fuel makes phase separation easier, so proper storage is important.

Modern gasolines have reduced the volatile components to reduce smog from evaporation. Those volatiles are needed for cold starts. If you loose too much of the volatile component, the engine won't start. Gas that's been stored so that it can evaporate will slowly go bad from loss of the volatiles. That has nothing to do wit ethanol, but often ethanol gets blamed for that too.

There's more to it that that, at least with two stroke outboard motors there is.

When the ethanol drops out due to phase separation the octane numbers lower resulting in spark knock. The Ethanol is used as an octane booster. Spark knock in a loud running two stroke is not easily heard as the user motors on and spark knock can destroy the motor.

Also, as the ethanol evaporates away in small carbs channels the water left behind causes corrosion.

Ethanol fuel used correctly in a motor designed for it can keep fuel parts really clean and running with no problem. It's know how to use the fuel correctly that is key.

OMC outboard motors have been designed to run on 10% ethanol since the late 1980's.

What I do in several of my 1990's OMC motors is to have two fuel tanks, The three gallon is for pure gasoline. The 15 gallon tank for 10% ethanol fuel. A few miles from my cruises' end I switch tanks over to the three gallon pure gas tank without cutting off the engine. I run it for ten minutes or so and then cut it off at the dock and trailer my boat.

Next time out I start on the same 3 gallon pure gas for warm up and then switch to the 10% ethanol gas. Cruise all day and then end the day on the three gallon.
My motors hardly ever sit even overnight with ethanol in them.

When storing for winter or for periods of over a couple of months I drain the two or three carbs, depending on which how many carbs it has, via the carbs drain plugs.

I've done this for years with no problem. In my area pure gas cast at minimum a dollar more per gallon and at marinas it my run as high as $5.50 per gallon.

Your mileage may vary.

(if there typos or errors in my typing and I see them I will edit if possible.)

 

[northmanlogging]

Hello everyone,
I have a few saws at this stage and some sit longer than others. How often should I be running them minimum to make sure they are properly care for? I assume simply starting them and idling them is not enough....I have to put them to work right?

Thanks for any thoughts on proper storage/long term care you have.

lots of opinions, heres mine
Either run it until its out, or dump the gas out and then run it until its dry, then ignore them until needed
Use good 2 smoke oil get the stuff with preservatives (the orange Stihl stuff works great, but there are yet more opinions)
cheap gas is worse then anything, get non ethanol but still don't leave it in the saw.
even the good stuff has a habit of drying out and doing weird things, so as I said dump it out, run until dry, store in a dry place, when you go to fire it up again some residual mix oil will be in the carb, and it will run very rich for a bit, and be a right bastard to get started that first time, it can be wayyyyy worse if you leave fuel in the tank, as the fuel will evaporate off leaving just the mix oil, that then has to cycle through the fuel line, and carb before fresh fuel makes its way in.
Anyway, theres lots of ridiculous products on the market for "protecting stored engines" never seen an air cooled engine that was kept dry have rust/corrosion inside, and plenty that weren't kept dry still didn't have corrosion inside, 2 smoke oil does some interesting things under high heat, like penetrating the pores of the metal... almost like a cast iron pan that is well seasoned.
This from a guy that has left a saw in the back of my work truck for ? 2? years getting rained on, snowed on, sat on tossed thrown hit with sledge hammers etc etc it fired up and fell timber yesterday, ran 2 tanks through it like it never missed a day (killed 3 chains too but thats another story)

(same saw has now survived 3 work trucks, being run over by a skidder[twice], having trees fall on it, drowned in a pond... hasn't slept indoors in at least 5 years... still running stock albeit modified internal parts) Granted it looks the part at this point... but it runs.