Minimum amount to run saws?

[northmanlogging]

^^ thats to say nothing of my venerable ms260, that up until a few weeks ago was half torn apart living in the Forge that isn't exactly weather proof for the last 3 years, its been squished by logs twice, chucked 40' down a cliff (on purpose...), dropped from 80' up a tree, and has cut more firewood than I can count, was my test mouse for porting cylinders, truck/skidder saw for 12 years, it now lives in the dumB truck, and fired right up when I took er out of retirement last month, and all I really did was dump the fuel out 3 years ago and chuck it on a bench covered in dull chains, half finished knife/sword/armor projects and grinding dust, and more or less open to the elements

 

[northmanlogging]

I wasn't aware of lower volatiles in modern gas. How do they compensate to keep the cars running in cold weather? I know from experience that the modern cars start better in the cold than the old ones did back in the day when they were new and the gas had neither alcohol nor reduced volatiles in it. Maybe tetra-ethyl lead?

EDIT: Tetra-ethyl lead was used to eliminate detonation in fuel cells. I suppose when they removed the TEL from the gas, they had to do something to reduce the knocking. I always thought that was why they started adding the alcohol; it too raises the octane and reduces knocking. I was not aware of the other changes in volatile compounds.

I think the easy starts of modern cars has more to do with the fuel injection system then anything, timing, air/fuel, are all metered according to ambient temp as well as motor temp even before you start the car the pooter has its initial numbers ready to go. which is pretty cool, even if I'd still rather monkey with a carb and ether for an hour...

 

[fields_mj]

To be clear, the reason I stopped running ethanol fuel in my equipment is because its so hard on the carbs when they sit for a long time. I don't drain my fuel or run my equipment empty. I plan on them being ready to use the next time I need them, and most of it I run intermittently year round including my saws. Since switching to non-ethanol fuel, I haven't had any carb issues. If I were running my equipment every week, I'd use ethanol fuel and drain it at the end of the season.

I tried using Stabil in my mower, ATV, and 2 rear tine tillers before switching to non-ethanol fuel. All 4 of those engines locked up within 2 years of using the product per the instructions. After the 4th engine (a 25hp Koehler on my Dixie chopper), I asked my dad about it. At one point he was responsible for a small fleet of lawn equipment. Dad is not known for tempering his response, and when I asked, he unloaded with both barrels. Apparently he had a similar experience where they started using Stabil and lost several engines within a few years. I know several home owners who use it religiously and don't seem to have any issues. None of those individuals are inclined to work on their own equipment.

 

[muddy42]

Spare a thought for some of us in the UK, where it is no longer possible to buy non-ethanol fuel from the pump.

 

[stihltech]

After 90 days in the tank or can, it is junk. I don't care what type gas you use, it ALL makes water. Actually see more water in non ethanol because it sits in the tank at the station longer.
Using my dump it into a glass jar method, over 3/4 will have water in the tank.
Do not mix up more fuel than you can use in about 3 months. Do not let it set in the saw (or any two cycle) longer than that.
We see in shops daily.

 

[northmanlogging]

Spare a thought for some of us in the UK, where it is no longer possible to buy non-ethanol fuel from the pump.

try a local marina?
Otherwise I hope you can get the canned fuel.

 

[fields_mj]

After 90 days in the tank or can, it is junk. I don't care what type gas you use, it ALL makes water. Actually see more water in non ethanol because it sits in the tank at the station longer.
Using my dump it into a glass jar method, over 3/4 will have water in the tank.
Do not mix up more fuel than you can use in about 3 months. Do not let it set in the saw (or any two cycle) longer than that.
We see in shops daily.

You probably don't mean it quite the way you say it, but just incase you do, or someone doesn't know any better, gas does not make water. It doesn't break down into water. It can't be converted into water. When a container is vented to the atmosphere, and is mostly empty, the humidity in the air can result in condensation forming repeatedly on the inside wall of the container. The only other way the container gets water in it is if it is exposed to water and it leaks in.

If you fill a 5 gal gas can and close it air tight, it doesn't go bad. I bought 10 gal of of non-ethanol fuel in mid July. I just mixed 2.5 gal of 2 cycle fuel from it 2 weeks ago and its fine. I'll continue to use fuel from that purchase to feed my saws, splitter, and garden tiller until some time next summer with no problems.

 

[fields_mj]

Spare a thought for some of us in the UK, where it is no longer possible to buy non-ethanol fuel from the pump.

Do you have any small airports? AV gas doesn't have ethanol here in the US, and AV gas is said to last a long, long time.

 

[pdqdl]

It can't be converted into water.

Sure it can!

1. Set it on fire. (usually by igniting in cylinder as fuel)
2. Condense the exhausted gases onto a cool surface.

Presto chango! You just converted the gasoline into water and CO2.

Of course, you are right about gas not magically turning into water in the fuel tank. The source of most water found in fuel will be the daily air exchange in a gas can caused by the changing air temperature.

Morning: cool air inside the can is heated up, pushing out the more volatile components of the gasoline.​

Evening: Gas can begins to cool, contracting the air inside, and sucking in higher humidity evening air from outside the can.​

Night: The air cools to it's lowest point. Tiny droplets of water may form on the inside of the can as the water condenses on the sides and then drops below the fuel level.​

Next morning: the tiny amount of water that dripped into the fuel has now escaped the gas/air cycle. Once it drops below the fuel level, it becomes trapped. Tiny daily deposits keep adding up until you see it at the bottom of your tank, wondering how that damn water got in your fuel tank.​

When you add alcohol to the mix, the sequence of events remains the same, but the water remains hidden until the alcohol evaporates from the daily gas can-to-air cycle. When present in fuel, alcohol can dissolve a little bit of water into the gasoline. When that alcohol evaporates, the water comes crashing out of solution and sits at the bottom of your fuel tank, readily seeking out the portal to the carburetor so as to exact revenge upon you for allowing it to be put into that nasty gasoline stuff.

 

[AlotL1keVegas]

This is going to sound crazy, but you know you can remove the ethanol from fuel by adding water to the fuel. The water/ethanol molecules bond together. I found this trick out from an older guy in Arizona who does this for his vintage motorcycles.

 

[rngrchad]

Don't use pump gas with ethanol to store tools especially handheld ones.

Ive been using pump gas with ethanol for 20 years. I Replace a fuel line occasionally, maybe clean a carb. Big deal. Ethanol isn't this big evil monster people like you keep telling everyone it is.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Ive been using pump gas with ethanol for 20 years. I Replace a fuel line occasionally, maybe clean a carb. Big deal. Ethanol isn't this big evil monster people like you keep telling everyone it is.

Sure it is. Most people store it in a none air tight container. In six months you have water in the fuel. Ethanol erodes aluminum in the presence of other metals. It gathers moisture from the atmosphere, fact. You arenot even allow to legally sell it to marine users because of aluminum tanks in boats.
It eats black rubber over time from evaporating though the rubber. It draws moisture in fuel tanks, period. Go siphon out a tool after it sits for a year or less and you will see the water that came out of that tank.

You are the one who is uneducated about Ethanol in fuels. I ran enough pump gas and have now decided to take all my small engines and toys to Efree because of fuel system damage. People like you can do as you please. The stuff has a shelf life of 2-3 months at best. Worst case two weeks. Now everyone knows the truth. The lie is they only sell E10 everywhere here.

 

[rngrchad]

Sure it is. Most people store it in a none air tight container. In six months you have water in the fuel. Ethanol erodes aluminum in the presence of other metals. It gathers moisture from the atmosphere, fact. You arenot even allow to legally sell it to marine users because of aluminum tanks in boats.
It eats black rubber over time from evaporating though the rubber. It draws moisture in fuel tanks, period. Go siphon out a tool after it sits for a year or less and you will see the water that came out of that tank.

You are the one who is uneducated about Ethanol in fuels. I ran enough pump gas and have now decided to take all my small engines and toys to Efree because of fuel system damage. People like you can do as you please. The stuff has a shelf life of 2-3 months at best. Worst case two weeks. Now everyone knows the truth. The lie is they only sell E10 everywhere here.

How many 2 stroke engines have you rebuilt? have you personally ever seen aluminum corrosion from ethanol? I'm not saying ethanol is good for a 2 stroke, and im not saying i like it. Id prefer not to have it in our fuel, but Ive rebuilt case reed engine dirtbikes all my life, 5 top ends a year, 2 botom ends a year for 15 years, all ran on e10 mixed 32:1 or 50:1 and have NEVER seen aluminum corrosion anywhere. Ever. Yeh the ethanol trashes cheaper fuel lines in 3 to 5 months but quality tygon or oem fuel lines last for years upon years with ethanol fuels. we have to live with it and im here to say it isnt even close to as bad as the shops will tell you. I do notice ethanol fuel collection moisture very quickly in fuel cans like you mention.....i dont store it very long 2 months max then it goes in the pressure washer or mower not chainsaws. Anyways im not paying the premium for non ethanol....id rather just deal with using it and have a slightly higher maintenece schedule as a resultt of running e10

 

[Lightning Performance]

How many 2 stroke engines have you rebuilt? have you personally ever seen aluminum corrosion from ethanol? I'm not saying ethanol is good for a 2 stroke, and im not saying i like it. Id prefer not to have it in our fuel, but Ive rebuilt case reed engine dirtbikes all my life, 5 top ends a year, 2 botom ends a year for 15 years, all ran on e10 mixed 32:1 or 50:1 and have NEVER seen aluminum corrosion anywhere. Ever. Yeh the ethanol trashes cheaper fuel lines in 3 to 5 months but quality tygon or oem fuel lines last for years upon years with ethanol fuels. we have to live with it and im here to say it isnt even close to as bad as the shops will tell you. I do notice ethanol fuel collection moisture very quickly in fuel cans like you mention.....i dont store it very long 2 months max then it goes in the pressure washer or mower not chainsaws. Anyways im not paying the premium for non ethanol....id rather just deal with using it and have a slightly higher maintenece schedule as a resultt of running e10

Hundreds if not a thousand or more.
Yes
Tygon fuel line is crap even the good stuff.
I just lost my 225 Echo weed eater
Truck ran like **** that week. I'm not testing the trash anymore everytime. We have no trust worthy sellers. Go watch Oldmans Garage on pump E85 and you will understand pump ️ better.
Lost two tools in two weeks.
Honda 5.5 washer ran out of fuel. Guess what it also locked up the piston. Oil is full and clean 10-30 synthetic. Low hours bought new. It was way too much E. E pump gas is bad for small engines, period, and the troubles that come with it long term.

You do you. I'm done with this subject.

 

[lone wolf]

Hundreds if not a thousand or more.
Yes
Tygon fuel line is crap even the good stuff.
I just lost my 225 Echo weed eater
Truck ran like **** that week. I'm not testing the trash anymore everytime. We have no trust worthy sellers. Go watch Oldmans Garage on pump E85 and you will understand pump ️ better.
Lost two tools in two weeks.
Honda 5.5 washer ran out of fuel. Guess what it also locked up the piston. Oil is full and clean 10-30 synthetic. Low hours bought new. It was way too much E. E pump gas is bad for small engines, period, and the troubles that come with it long term.

You do you. I'm done with this subject.

Ethanol has killed millions!

 

[Lightning Performance]

Ethanol has killed millions!

People just don't understand if you get E15 or more already ladden with water you're lean right from the start. It gets much worse over time in a relatively short period.


You admit the storage issue yet deny experience.
That ain't common sense.

I had no issues until recently. With dozens of small engines I'll buy, store and mix fresh marine gas here. My boat coming here holds 122 gallons in the main tank. I mix 2 gallons or 5. The outboard setup on it now is oil injection anyway. It has an aluminum main tank and has never ever had pump gas in it. I have VP 55 steel drums also now empty.
Problem solved, permanently.

 

[pdqdl]

Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water from the environment. When ethanol-containing fuel comes into contact with aluminum, it can promote a corrosion process called galvanic corrosion. This occurs when aluminum and water are in contact with each other, leading to the formation of aluminum hydroxide and hydrogen gas, which can damage the aluminum surface.

Some aluminum alloys are more resistant to ethanol-related corrosion than others. Alloys with a higher percentage of aluminum and specific alloying elements, such as chromium and copper, tend to be more resistant to corrosion. However, aluminum alloys with a high copper content can be particularly vulnerable to corrosion in the presence of ethanol.