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We as a forumare past this type of dialogue.

Excuse my french i am sorry to offend anyone...i just find it somewhat comical that people can get so aggravated over a mans opinion..its his...you have yours..and i have mine..i guess were all right if we ask ourselves the answer...i just think the arguements and offense taken by some are ridiculous !
 
Niko's a good guy ,just got to get to know him ,he does need to build up his arms some more , so he can let us know more about the 70cc and bigger saws though :givebeer:
 
Just got back from running 461R if the new 461 is better than that hmmm

We ran and orange saw right beside it and hands down the 461R out preformed it

:msp_ohmy:
 
No disrespect intended Sam but Niko is no less passionate about his 346XP's than you are about your 441CM's. I've seen you fly off the handle many times the second anybody has anything bad to say about the 441CM's. In fact I'm not sure if I can recall you using any other model of saw? By now you'd also probably be aware that a 441CM owned by a member here and ported by the exact same guy who built your favourite 441CM's had a terminal failure the other week.
Niko is a good guy and it's OK to disagree with somebody and not end up hating them. I've had some pretty good head to heads on AS over the years with Niko and yet we still exchange messages about the weather etc.
I'm not some sort of hormonal pillow hugger but I just can't believe how a simple disagreement on chainsaw brands can end up with people carrying on like they want to kill each other.

For what it's worth I sold my MS261 because it was an uninspiring piece of crap but I love my little 241CM. Sawtroll is actually right on many things he says whether he reads about it or not. Unlike some on AS I have actually heard him say good things about opposition brands...

I don't see where I have anymore problem with Niko than anyone else that has a problem with him. For the record, I don't make it a habit to talk about saws I've never seen or run personally, as I have little to nothing to contribute to those threads. I like the 441, I've also run one more than most people around here, so I know the whats and whys of that model and I talk about it extensively. I've never bashed the 346, I actually rarely bash Huskies in general. I don't use them and I think their build quality less than a Stihl, but they are in many cases a little faster, so its a wash. I don't care what a person runs.

So the distinct difference is, I only discuss saw models that I've seen and run and handled (check my posts) ................... Niko discusses his opinion, as if its fact, about saw models that he has zero experience with and that is quite misleading. Does it affect my saw purchasing .... No, but if he is full of crap about a saw model and I know it, then I have just as much right to speak my opinion about that, otherwise, the place would be overrun with opinions based on little to zero experience with various models. Around here he gets a full pass of not having to show photos or proof of literally anything he claims. In contrast, I do nothing but show photo and video proof of what I'm doing, the good, bad and ugly of it.

Now I understand that from time to time people feel sorry for Niko and that is just human, but I would surmise that if he has been bashed quite a bit lately, then it might be directly proportionate his giving his unfounded opinions and a percentage of actual saw users are sick of it.

As to the fact that a ported 441CM died the other day is of little concern to the discussion of Sawtroll, but if you would like to discuss it thats fine. What is your point, name one saw modder and saw model that hasn't blown up or broke? Because I can name the owner and saw model and most ever saw modder on this board that has blown one or more up from time to time. It sucks, but its a fact of life, that all aren't going to live.

Find and post where I've stated that any other Stihl model is better than any other Husky model ........... I'll carry on, you let me know when you find all of those posts, because I either haven't or its been very rare and in a case where I personally ran both saws or was standing right there or one of my workers stated the issue, no heresay, or sales brochure reading.

I'm not interested in killing anyone over simple chainsaw opinions, just be prepared for a rebuttal if I see something that I disagree iwth, I guess thats okay for Sawtroll, but not for me, that's fair.

As to your issue with the 261, so what do I care. Find where I have ever stated that the 261 is better than any other 50cc model or brand, again, I'll carry on, because you won't find that either. Its a 50cc saw, its below, my radar of things to get excited about. I think its build well, I have two of them, for the record, I've never ever even touched a 346 or 5100 and surprise, surprise, I keep my mouth shut about those models, because I don't know anything about them, other than I don't want either one of them.

Anything else you want to discuss?

Later,

Sam
 
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I don't see where I have anymore problem with Niko than anyone else that has a problem with him. For the record, I don't make it a habit to talk about saws I've never seen or run personally, as I have little to nothing to contribute to those threads. I like the 441, I've also run one more than most people around here, so I know the whats and whys of that model and I talk about it extensively. I've never bashed the 346, I actually rarely bash Huskies in general. I don't use them and I think their build quality less than a Stihl, but they are in many cases a little faster, so its a wash. I don't care what a person runs.

So the distinct difference is, I only discuss saw models that I've seen and run and handled (check my posts) ................... Niko discusses his opinion, as if its fact, about saw models that he has zero experience with and that is quite misleading. Does it affect my saw purchasing .... No, but if he is full of crap about a saw model and I know it, then I have just as much right to speak my opinion about that, otherwise, the place would be overrun with opinions based on little to zero experience with various models. Around here he gets a full pass of not having to show photos or proof of literally anything he claims. In contrast, I do nothing but show photo and video proof of what I'm doing, the good, bad and ugly of it.

Now I understand that from time to time people feel sorry for Niko and that is just human, but I would surmise that if he has been bashed quite a bit lately, then it might be directly proportionate his giving his unfounded opinions and a percentage of actual saw users are sick of it.

As to the fact that a ported 441CM died the other day is of little concern to the discussion of Sawtroll, but if you would like to discuss it thats fine. What is your point, name one saw modder and saw model that hasn't blown up or broke? Because I can name the owner and saw model and most ever saw modder on this board that has blown one or more up from time to time. It sucks, but its a fact of life, that all aren't going to live.

Find and post where I've stated that any other Stihl model is better than any other Husky model ........... I'll carry on, you let me know when you find all of those posts, because I either haven't or its been very rare and in a case where I personally ran both saws or was standing right there or one of my workers stated the issue, no heresay, or sales brochure reading.

I'm not interested in killing anyone over simple chainsaw opinions, just be prepared for a rebuttal if I see something that I disagree iwth, I guess thats okay for Sawtroll, but not for me, that's fair.

As to your issue with the 261, so what do I care. Find where I have ever stated that the 261 is better than any other 50cc model or brand, again, I'll carry on, because you won't find that either. Its a 50cc saw, its below, my radar of things to get excited about. I think its build well, I have two of them, for the record, I've never ever even touched a 346 or 5100 and surprise, surprise, I keep my mouth shut about those models, because I don't know anything about them, other than I don't want either one of them.

Anything else you want to discuss?

Later,

Sam

:cool2:
 
I don't see where I have anymore problem with Niko than anyone else that has a problem with him. For the record, I don't make it a habit to talk about saws I've never seen or run personally, as I have little to nothing to contribute to those threads. I like the 441, I've also run one more than most people around here, so I know the whats and whys of that model and I talk about it extensively. I've never bashed the 346, I actually rarely bash Huskies in general. I don't use them and I think their build quality less than a Stihl, but they are in many cases a little faster, so its a wash. I don't care what a person runs.

So the distinct difference is, I only discuss saw models that I've seen and run and handled (check my posts) ................... Niko discusses his opinion, as if its fact, about saw models that he has zero experience with and that is quite misleading. Does it affect my saw purchasing .... No, but if he is full of crap about a saw model and I know it, then I have just as much right to speak my opinion about that, otherwise, the place would be overrun with opinions based on little to zero experience with various models. Around here he gets a full pass of not having to show photos or proof of literally anything he claims. In contrast, I do nothing but show photo and video proof of what I'm doing, the good, bad and ugly of it.

Now I understand that from time to time people feel sorry for Niko and that is just human, but I would surmise that if he has been bashed quite a bit lately, then it might be directly proportionate his giving his unfounded opinions and a percentage of actual saw users are sick of it.

As to the fact that a ported 441CM died the other day is of little concern to the discussion of Sawtroll, but if you would like to discuss it thats fine. What is your point, name one saw modder and saw model that hasn't blown up or broke? Because I can name the owner and saw model and most ever saw modder on this board that has blown one or more up from time to time. It sucks, but its a fact of life, that all aren't going to live.

Find and post where I've stated that any other Stihl model is better than any other Husky model ........... I'll carry on, you let me know when you find all of those posts, because I either haven't or its been very rare and in a case where I personally ran both saws or was standing right there or one of my workers stated the issue, no heresay, or sales brochure reading.

I'm not interested in killing anyone over simple chainsaw opinions, just be prepared for a rebuttal if I see something that I disagree iwth, I guess thats okay for Sawtroll, but not for me, that's fair.

As to your issue with the 261, so what do I care. Find where I have ever stated that the 261 is better than any other 50cc model or brand, again, I'll carry on, because you won't find that either. Its a 50cc saw, its below, my radar of things to get excited about. I think its build well, I have two of them, for the record, I've never ever even touched a 346 or 5100 and surprise, surprise, I keep my mouth shut about those models, because I don't know anything about them, other than I don't want either one of them.

Anything else you want to discuss?

Later,

Sam


Seems to me you misinterpreted MCW's post a little.
You come across real strong with your opinions on 441's, amsteel rope, semi-chisel chain and whatever else you use that's the best(?), just like Sawtroll does with many saws.

Or at least that's what I got out of it
 
Short version of what Sam seemed to be saying (he certainly doesn't need me to speak for him) is that he only comments on that with which he has actual experience. ST does offer opinions (as though they are facts) about many saws he has only read about. I got no problem with Niko, in fact I really like him. As I said, as long as the source perspective is acknowledged, it's all good.

:cheers:
 
Seems to me you misinterpreted MCW's post a little.
You come across real strong with your opinions on 441's, amsteel rope, semi-chisel chain and whatever else you use that's the best(?), just like Sawtroll does with many saws.

Or at least that's what I got out of it

Correct, but I've used those things that you have named. I've photographed and video'd myself and others using them, given examples and such. I've explained over and over why one product out produced the other product after using both products for a lengthy time, and I rarely speak about things that I haven't actually used.

Sawtroll speaks about things that he hasn't even seen or handled or used as if his opinion is a fact, he doesn't even give a referenced as to whether or not he ever even touched the thing, yet that is okay, because its Sawtroll, Okay????

I mean he literally defeats the purpose of discussing various pro's and con's about using different products, because his opinion is usually unfounded, and then he will argue with those that have actually used the product and like it or don't like it based on actual hands on experience with that same product.

I'm an extremely logical person. I get the fact that Sawtroll is like an old hunting dog around here, and some people like to pet him from time to time. Thats fine, but when that house pet, gets in front of the dogs that are actually coming back from doing something, then its an issue, not a big issue, and I don't mind it, so far as its fair game to comment on it, but bi-monthly now, someone feels sorry for the ole'dog and gets mad at one of the other younger dogs that just came in from hunting because they ran into him a little to hard. Thats just life. I'm okay with that, but obviously others aren't.

I don't come from a state of mind where people get free passes just because they are feeble minded or don't feel like getting their hands dirty, if that is the case here, then I can be gentle too. I just didn't know it was "Be compassionate for those that don't personally use saw related products" Week, right now, or I would have ignored his last few responses like I usually do.

Sam
 
Correct, but I've used those things that you have named. I've photographed and video'd myself and others using them, given examples and such. I've explained over and over why one product out produced the other product after using both products for a lengthy time, and I rarely speak about things that I haven't actually used.

Sawtroll speaks about things that he hasn't even seen or handled or used as if his opinion is a fact, he doesn't even give a referenced as to whether or not he ever even touched the thing, yet that is okay, because its Sawtroll, Okay????

I mean he literally defeats the purpose of discussing various pro's and con's about using different products, because his opinion is usually unfounded, and then he will argue with those that have actually used the product and like it or don't like it based on actual hands on experience with that same product.

I'm an extremely logical person. I get the fact that Sawtroll is like an old hunting dog around here, and some people like to pet him from time to time. Thats fine, but when that house pet, gets in front of the dogs that are actually coming back from doing something, then its an issue, not a big issue, and I don't mind it, so far as its fair game to comment on it, but bi-monthly now, someone feels sorry for the ole'dog and gets mad at one of the other younger dogs that just came in from hunting because they ran into him a little to hard. Thats just life. I'm okay with that, but obviously others aren't.

I don't come from a state of mind where people get free passes just because they are feeble minded or don't feel like getting their hands dirty, if that is the case here, then I can be gentle too. I just didn't know it was "Be compassionate for those that don't personally use saw related products" Week, right now, or I would have ignored his last few responses like I usually do.

Sam

Sawtroll has many an opinion on things he has not used, but thats the beauty of opinions on the internet. I reckon you don't always need hands on experience to have an opinion either, especially when talking about design. Having some of both is best

And while I'm sure you've seen and done it all, your views are still just your opinions, based on your experiences. Others may disagree with you and often both side are right, depends on the situation doesn't it.

Better let you get back to it Big Dog
 
Sawtroll has many an opinion on things he has not used, but thats the beauty of opinions on the internet. I reckon you don't always need hands on experience to have an opinion either, especially when talking about design. Having some of both is best

And while I'm sure you've seen and done it all, your views are still just your opinions, based on your experiences. Others may disagree with you and often both side are right, depends on the situation doesn't it.

Better let you get back to it Big Dog

In all honesty, I find this discussion about how to gently handle Sawtroll's lack of experience opinion a little weird.

If a newbie came on here and said that he logs with a wildthing with a 28" bar, his monitor would catch on fire, as it is evident that that rookie has no experience with what he is saying. After that the rookie states that his wildthing can smoke a MS460. Well now we really know the guy is off his rocker.

This isn't any different than Sawtroll. Its obvious or a well know fact he has no experience with what he is giving his opinion of. So it should be fair game to point that out to the rest of the world, and usually this is fine if it is someone other than Sawtroll, its even common practice, but again this is "love Sawtroll week" this week, so I'll just wait a little while and then it will be okay to make the exact same posts about him. I've seen this revolving door several times with regards to Sawtroll on this forum, as like I said its human to feel sorry for others, and most everyone feels sorry for Sawtroll.

Of course, it would be wrong of anyone to suggest that the Troll just quit giving his opinion about products he has little to zero experience with, I'm pretty sure thats about the only thing that anyone ever gripes about him about, but then that would limit his freedom of speech and his post count, so onward we march, never fix the issue, just get mad at those that pointed out what started the issue, until nobody knows which came first the chicken or the egg, LOL.

Sam
 
I came here to read about M-tronic saws.......must have clicked on the wrong thread :)

Carry on

:popcorn:
 
:potstir:

...but sawtroll does know how terrible the MS441C-M really is...

[video=youtube_share;ghmLiguFID4]http://youtu.be/ghmLiguFID4[/video]
 
In all honesty, I find this discussion about how to gently handle Sawtroll's lack of experience opinion a little weird.

If a newbie came on here and said that he logs with a wildthing with a 28" bar, his monitor would catch on fire, as it is evident that that rookie has no experience with what he is saying. After that the rookie states that his wildthing can smoke a MS460. Well now we really know the guy is off his rocker.

This isn't any different than Sawtroll. Its obvious or a well know fact he has no experience with what he is giving his opinion of. So it should be fair game to point that out to the rest of the world, and usually this is fine if it is someone other than Sawtroll, its even common practice, but again this is "love Sawtroll week" this week, so I'll just wait a little while and then it will be okay to make the exact same posts about him. I've seen this revolving door several times with regards to Sawtroll on this forum, as like I said its human to feel sorry for others, and most everyone feels sorry for Sawtroll.

Of course, it would be wrong of anyone to suggest that the Troll just quit giving his opinion about products he has little to zero experience with, I'm pretty sure thats about the only thing that anyone ever gripes about him about, but then that would limit his freedom of speech and his post count, so onward we march, never fix the issue, just get mad at those that pointed out what started the issue, until nobody knows which came first the chicken or the egg, LOL.

Sam

Well Sam...if you're that unhappy with the way things are run here you're welcome, more than welcome really, to pack up and move on.
 
what is a 441 C ?

That is the M-Tronic version.

IMG_7515-M.jpg
 
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