MS180 vs PS-401 vs G3800AVS

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Four Paws said:
When are you going to try the 377 Shindaiwa?
Click to expand...

Forgive my ignorance, but is it a clamshell engine?

Edit: Here's the IPL. LINK. Looks like a well built saw. Pro style construction, cast rod, caged needle bearings... How much do they cost? I'm a little disappointed with the advertised 2.5 HP for 39cc. Weight is good at 9.5#. I haven't found WOT RPM yet.
 
Last edited:
blsnelling]Forgive my ignorance said:
Brad,

you ought to step up to the ultimate small saw - a Shindaiwa 377. The small Shindaiwa saws are built like pro saws - magnesium crankcase, nylon tank, recoil and covers. They have an outboard clutch - which I don't mind, but you may. Real nimble with a 13" bar! Great saw to carry trail riding on the dirtbike.

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attachment.php
Click to expand...
 
Well, well, well. I took another look at the muffler and it wasn't constructed like I though. Internally, I only had about a 5/16" square hole that everything had to pass through. I wondered why it still didn't sound like a chainsaw and was still hard to hear the pop when starting. Not any more! This little bugger was hard to uncrimp. I removed the internal baffle. But that's not where the restriction was. Check out the pics below for details. It now sounds very healthy with a nice pop at idle.

Wow. Did this ever turn it loose. It proves a point that no matter how well the engine is built inside, it has to be able to get out. I picked up another 1K RPMs and am now turnin 14,800. It also completely anhialated my ported MS180 now! The fastest time my 180 turned last time out was 10.4. Today the best was 11.65 at 14,300 RPMs. The log is getting bigger as I go. The Redmax turned an amazing 8.30! Torque to boot too.

I filed the Redmax chain as I do all my lopro chains. Uneven rakers is what was causing it to be jumpy. The 180 is about 4.5% faster with .050 chain than it is with this .043 chain, but I don't have that bar and chain here. Still, the Redmax is way faster. I wonder how it would stack up against a MS200 now. Pro built, half the price!

Today, the Redmax is now an amazing 28.84% faster than the MS180. If you took the faster time of the 180 from a couple days ago, the Redmax is still 20.2% faster. Give the 180 another 4.5% advantage for the .050 chain and the Redmax is still 25.4% faster. I'm impressed to say the least. I sure wish I had a time with a good muffler mod on the saw stock now.



Uncrimping the muffler.
446666280_qzfXW-M.jpg


Inner baffle that was tossed.
446666361_yivXh-M.jpg


Baffle removed.
446666342_ZNCAM-M.jpg


Front of muffler.
446666560_ECuze-M.jpg


What I failed to show is that the baffle went all the way to the left and was closed. So all you had was the one little square on the right.
446666945_vUSzS-M.jpg


Crimped back together.
446667126_46cnb-M.jpg


Without the deflector.
446666892_27izb-M.jpg


With the deflector, nothing shoots striaght out.
446667031_GQUJW-M.jpg
 
Last edited:
blsnelling said:
It also completely anhialated my ported MS180 now! the Redmax is way faster. I wonder how it would stack up against a MS200 now. Pro built, half the price!
Click to expand...

The mighty Redmax! They are all pretty much dogs stock - but turn up really really well! Just imagine that saw squished down to .020" with a pop-up and 200 psi!

The 621 is a badazz when ported...but kinda wide for my taste.
 
Four Paws said:
Just imagine that saw squished down to .020" with a pop-up and 200 psi!
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It'd be worth it now that it's running so well. I'll have to think about that one. I know for a fact that I have enough piston skirt. I'll have to check the intake side and how much room I have above the ring groove to work with. A .035 popup and .010 less squish should have me close to 200 PSI. I wouldn't invest that in a clamshell/stamped rod saw, but I might this thing.
 
Last edited:
blsnelling said:
Well, well, well. I took another look at the muffler and it wasn't constructed like I though. Internally, I only had about a 5/16" square hole that everything had to pass through. I wondered why it still didn't sound like a chainsaw and was still hard to hear the pop when starting. Not any more! This little bugger was hard to uncrimp. I removed the internal baffle. But that's not where the restriction was. Check out the pics below for details. It now sounds very healthy with a nice pop at idle.

Wow. Did this ever turn it loose. It proves a point that no matter how well the engine is built inside, it has to be able to get out. I picked up another 1K RPMs and am now turnin 14,800. It also completely anhialated my ported MS180 now! The fastest time my 180 turned last time out was 10.4. Today the best was 11.65 at 14,300 RPMs. The log is getting bigger as I go. The Redmax turned an amazing 8.30! Torque to boot too.

I filed the Redmax chain as I do all my lopro chains. Uneven rakers is what was causing it to be jumpy. The 180 is about 4.5% faster with .050 chain than it is with this .043 chain, but I don't have that bar and chain here. Still, the Redmax is way faster. I wonder how it would stack up against a MS200 now. Pro built, half the price!

Today, the Redmax is now an amazing 28.84% faster than the MS180. If you took the faster time of the 180 from a couple days ago, the Redmax is still 20.2% faster. Give the 180 another 4.5% advantage for the .050 chain and the Redmax is still 25.4% faster. I'm impressed to say the least. I sure wish I had a time with a good muffler mod on the saw stock now.
Click to expand...



I knew something wasn't quite right. ;)
 
blsnelling said:
Hmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It'd be worth it now that it's running so well. I'll have to think about that one. I know for a fact that I have enough piston skirt. I'll have to check the intake side and how much room I have above the ring groove to work with. A .035 popup and .010 less squish should have me close to 200 PSI. I wouldn't invest that in a clamshell/stamped rod saw, but I might this thing.
Click to expand...

.010 less squish would have you at .020ish...so with a .035 pop-up, you would have .055 squish, or have to cut another .035 off the base...unless you swapped in a piston with a higher compression height.

Are you using a wheel yet, or still grinding blind? Just curious what your intake timing was on this saw stock and modded.

I bet that HUGE muffler helps the saw...
 
Four Paws said:
.010 less squish would have you at .020ish...so with a .035 pop-up, you would have .055 squish, or have to cut another .035 off the base...unless you swapped in a piston with a higher compression height.

Are you using a wheel yet, or still grinding blind? Just curious what your intake timing was on this saw stock and modded.

I bet that HUGE muffler helps the saw...
Click to expand...

Nah, if things measured out, I'd take .055 off the base to do a .035 popup. The piston may not even be built right to do it.

I typically stick with OEM timing. If I'm doing something different, such as my 084 popup, I do degree it. In that case, OEM timing ended up being best anyway. I did not degree this Redmax. Most of my work is on port shape and width.
 
blsnelling said:
The good news is that I believe I can mod this muffler without uncrimping now. A small carbide bur and you should be able to do this from the front. You can open up the internal baffler through the mounting flange on the back. Removing it isn't required.
Click to expand...

That is good to know, thanks.
 
The little Redmax really showed its colors today at the GTG. It cut significantly faster than a good running 200T with a 12" bar and mine running a 16". Matter of fact, it was only a couple tenths behind a Husky 353 with two cuts in 8" cants. I think my small saw search is over. Although I am still a little curious about the Shinny 377 Fourpaws mentioned. I ran some 50cc Shinny at the GTG today and it was really strong.
 
blsnelling said:
The Redmax 3800 is ported and running. It's now turning 13,700. It's now 13.6% faster than stock. That's not a real impressive number IMHO. However, what that doesn't tell you is the difference in how it feels in the cut. It has a LOT more torque now. No way could you have lugged this saw like I do in the seconde cut here. Throttle response is much better as well. Keep in mind this saw is only one perhaps its 3rd tank.

You may have noticed that this chain is a little jumpy. It feels like the rakers are a little too low. Perhaps the chain is actually hurting its cut times. I'll try to take a look at it tomorrow.

Bottom line, it's now a respectable little saw with a MUCH better build quality than the MS180. The connecting rod looks like those found in pro Stihl saws.

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Click to expand...

Brad you really have it bad! Doing vids in the dark by torch light LOL
Might be time for tome therapy!:greenchainsaw:
 

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