Nice redmax, I bet that thing cooks. Nice to see a lot of options in this class. I wonder if the future small huskys will be orange red-maxs? I know they came out with a red-max copy top handle not too long ago.
MS180 vs PS-401 vs G3800AVS
- Thread starter blsnelling
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I've yet to see inside of a 401. The picture in the IPL looks like the rod in the MS180. Overall, the design of the 3800 seems more modern with the forged rod and 3-piece crank. I need to find me another one of the minty eBay 3800s to take a look at.
Signoflife
ArboristSite Operative
Hi Brad, I bought the 3800 Redmax for my wife, got it on Ebay for about $150 NIB. She loves that little saw, I haven't modded it at all, and I left the stock anti-kick back garbage chain on it. I have limbed with it few times and for what it is I think it is really good and it's super light, yet feels like pro saw. Since it's her first saw I was going to leave it stock, I have a couple Oregon LP chains to stick on it once she got more time on it, and at some point I was thinking I would get it tweaked abit.
If I run across a deal like that, I'll jump on it in a heartbeat so that I can decide for myself which saw I like best.
Good luck now. Erick spilled the beans about it being a good saw. Now AS members will be bidding up all of the 3800 saws on Ebay.
Remember when trigger-time posted about that scale. People win those things for 99 cents all the time, the one he linked was over 10 bucks. lol
Signoflife
ArboristSite Operative
If you get one I would like to hear how your test goes, and if good what you did to it. As I said for what it is the saw feels good, but I also feel there's more in that little saw and after a little modding it would be even finer.
Erick
Addicted to ArboristSite
Brad, I have not gotten to mod the 401 yet beyond a basic muffler mod so I can't say for sure, just giving you my opinion. I think the 401 has more room to work.
Like I said the 3800 doesn't leave much room to do a whole lot with it but you can get a little here and there. I don't know if you've gotten into many of these "other" saws but the 3800 has the little "jet hole" in the roof of the exhaust port like the old Efco 940 (BTW another little known screamer in waiting) and some others. A word of advice on that little "jet" a little’s good but a lots not necessarily better. Just go wide and if you go up keep that same port profile in the roof.
The rod in the Dolmar is a good bit beefier than the one in the 180 but it is a flat piece of steel. I don't have a 401 on hand to tear down for you right now but here are some shots I have of the rod from the manual.
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Fastcast
Addicted to ArboristSite
What do I know?....but that rod sure looks like cast to me, not forged.
Javelin
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have sold some 3800 and they are good I have had no trouble with them! I can say the same for the 401 as well but the 3800 is more modern the 401 when you consider when it was designed was really advanced in it's day! I am referring to the original 100 and 102! I never sold many of those. The 3800 should get better priced next year because of it being terminated!
Is the 3800 a closed port design with windows in the piston?
Erick
Addicted to ArboristSite
Brad I pulled this pic off line for you, gives you a little idea of what I'm talking about.
This is the intake side and if you look at the gap under the carb mount flange you can see how the casting gets pretty thin right at the jug wall.
Brad I pulled this pic off line for you, gives you a little idea of what I'm talking about.
This is the intake side and if you look at the gap under the carb mount flange you can see how the casting gets pretty thin right at the jug wall.
So you're quite limited in how wide you can go there. Much room to widen the exhaust?
Erick
Addicted to ArboristSite
Exhaust casting is built the same way, not much room to do any real work.
I got out and did a little testing today. I ran both the stock and ported MS180s with .043 and .050 guage chain. The PS-401 has .050 chain. I found it interesting that I got the fastest times on both the stock and ported 180s with the 0.050 chain. I was not expecting that. The 180 cuts best with a moderate amount of pressure. Not real light, but not pushing much either. The Dolmar was another story. It doesn't have the RPMs of the 180 but has a larger engine and more torque. It cuts best when you really lean on it and pull the RPMs down.
My ported MS180 is right at 20% faster than the stock saw. The stock saw does not even have a muffler mod.
The Dolmar has a muffler mod and is about 5% slower than the stock MS180.
The ported MS180 is about 25% faster than the 401. That's even with a 15% smaller engine. The Dolmar may really come into it's own with a good port job. With that said, any one of these saws is a joy to use for light limbing and trimming. It's only when you run them against the clock that you notice much difference.
Below are the best of three cuts with each chain setup.
Dolmar PS-401 Light Pressure 8.26 seconds.
Dolmar PS-401 Pushing 7.33 seconds
MS180 Stock with .043 chain 7.13 seconds
MS180 Stock with .050 chain 7.0 seconds
MS180 Ported with .043 chain 5.8 seconds
MS180 Ported with .50 chain 5.53 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/v/_bl1fD4r0TA&hl=en&fs=1
My ported MS180 is right at 20% faster than the stock saw. The stock saw does not even have a muffler mod.
The Dolmar has a muffler mod and is about 5% slower than the stock MS180.
The ported MS180 is about 25% faster than the 401. That's even with a 15% smaller engine. The Dolmar may really come into it's own with a good port job. With that said, any one of these saws is a joy to use for light limbing and trimming. It's only when you run them against the clock that you notice much difference.
Below are the best of three cuts with each chain setup.
Dolmar PS-401 Light Pressure 8.26 seconds.
Dolmar PS-401 Pushing 7.33 seconds
MS180 Stock with .043 chain 7.13 seconds
MS180 Stock with .050 chain 7.0 seconds
MS180 Ported with .043 chain 5.8 seconds
MS180 Ported with .50 chain 5.53 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/v/_bl1fD4r0TA&hl=en&fs=1
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Is your .043 a safety chain?
When I was at the Stihl dealer yesterday, I noticed that all their .043 was "green".
I have a friend who thinks his 017 cuts as fast as his 028 and attributes the smaller saw's performance to the pico chain.
I wonder if you could run a larger drum on the PS-401, or a full 3/8 chain instead of low profile.
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Both the 043 and 050 chain is Woodland Pro from Baileys. 43LP and 30LP. It is not safety chain. Regular 3/8 would only serve to suck all the power out of the 401 and slow it down. A larger sprocket might work. You can really pull the RPMs down and it and it just keeps chugging.
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Termite
Time To Launch
I converted my 401 over to .325 Woodland pro chisel and it cuts much better than with low profile.
Ya, that is it. I miss quoted the price. I only saw it once before someone bought it. As you can see in my post I didn't clarify the model number........still a good deal as that is around 250 from the dealer.
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Thanks for the videos blsnelling! I've owned saws from MS180 to 046 Magnum and a 371XP on the top end. When my back started going bad I sold everything off but my first Stihl, an 028WB, and then picked up a MS180 and I've got to tell you I was really surprised at how quick that little MS180 is. The 028 needs a rebuild.
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