need bigger saw

[SawTroll]

Balance?

12guns, have you considered how your new saw would balance?

My 361W balanses just perfect with 18" setup, and I think the bigger saws will be rear heavy with 18" or shorter. That may not be what you want.

 

[Chris J.]

it just depends on how much overkill you want to need.

Well said!!

 

[Lakeside53]

Over reving with short bar?
I don't think that is possible if the carb is properly adjusted out of wood, with the short bar setup in place.

361, 460 and 660 are sold with 15" bar as standard over here in Norway - the 440 isn't offered at all.

Not true - the "no load" setting of the carb is a max, say 13500 or whatever and not a working number - just a "carb setting number" and a short duration limit. The max torque is probably close to 7500rpm (I haven't looked it up). You would never want run your saw consistently in wood at 13500, or any higher than required max torque rpm. Short bar and smaller wood at full throttle will not slow the saw down enough at full throttle and almost every uses the throttle as "on/off". Using an 8 tooth rim sprocket helps a lot on the smaller bar/high power. I'm familiar with my saws enough to control the upper limits in the wood, but I see lots who are not.

o.k. everyone jump in and swat me.

 

[Lakeside53]

You don't need a full skip chain on an 18" bar on an 044. If you're cutting firewood, probably hardwood, why would you do it? The full comp. chain will be faster. I wonder also why you'd limit yourself to an 18" bar? Why not a 25"? My MS390 isn't half the saw of the 044 but it rips great with that combo in mixed hardwood and pine. Same application as you. Anyway you're saw your money, plenty of used 044s to be had on Evil Bay and sometimes here, people bid them up like crazy though.

Diesel is right in hardwoods. My comment was Pacific NW based - softwood everywhere, firewood or not. Even the Alder, which is supposed to be a "hardwood", is soft. On say 036 and above (and some smaller older saws that just won't die), just about every pro the comes into our store uses 3/8 and 404 full skip for everything. They start out with square ground RSK, and we regrind them as round at the first sharpen (don't have a square grinder and too fussy to do by hand).

Be careful on Ebay 044 saws... many are really beat up, have had multiple prior rebuilds, and the older units often have bad bearings AND/OR bad casings around the bearing. No pro dumps his good saws on ebay. Every week some guy wanders into the store and wants me to "fix" his ebay special. Seems to me that they are getting worse as more people figure out that ebay is a good place to get rid of the dogs. Pawn shops are often your best bet for a good saw - you get to look at them first, and pawn shops are usually savvy about not taking junk.

 

[12guns]

You don't need a full skip chian on an 18" bar on an 044. If you're cutting firewood, probably hardwood, why would you do it? The full comp. chain will be faster. I wonder also why you'd limit yourself to an 18" bar? Why not a 25"? My MS390 isn't half the saw of the 044 but it rips great with that combo in mixed hardwood and pine. Same application as you. Anyway you're saw your money, plenty of used 044s to be had on Evil Bay and sometimes here, people bid them up like crazy though.

Your probably right, but I do want to stay shorter to get the extra power...maybe that's what your saying, that the 044 w/ a 25" bar still has more than enough power...But I have heard many people say an 026 w/ 20" bar is " great" and "fast" which is just not true for the wood i cut...i tried it. Maybe I'll end up w/ a 20" bar, that would make more sense and not be too small for the saw.

Thanks for all the great advise!

 

[bugfart]

"it just depends on how much overkill you want to need."

Absolute perfection.
Post of the week right there.
And if we could have a picture of that Predator (Please tell me that's a real saw) above it I would have to buy the T-Shirt.

 

[SawTroll]

Not true - the "no load" setting of the carb is a max, say 13500 or whatever and not a working number - just a "carb setting number" and a short duration limit. The max torque is probably close to 7500rpm (I haven't looked it up). You would never want run your saw consistently in wood at 13500, or any higher than required max torque rpm. Short bar and smaller wood at full throttle will not slow the saw down enough at full throttle and almost every uses the throttle as "on/off". Using an 8 tooth rim sprocket helps a lot on the smaller bar/high power.

I could of course be wrong as I am not an engeneer, but I really don't think so. Here we go;
What makes the saw cut wood is chain speed, not torque or power output in itself. The torque is necessary to keep the chain from slowing too much down, and has no value without sufficient rpms.

I think most of us want as much chain speed as possible in the cut, and it is mainly a function of rpms and suffisient torque, balansed by the gearing, chain type and wood in question.

 

[neverenough]

Just for the heck of it I'll throw in my 2 cents. IMO you should get a 044/046, which ever you find in good shape, and a 20 inch bar for it.

 

[pinus]

Diesel is right in hardwoods. My comment was Pacific NW based - Even the Alder, which is supposed to be a "hardwood", is soft.

Alder=hardwood :alien: It sounds wery interesting here, because this is the most common firewood here, soft and no pitch. Rapid in growth, burns well

 

[pinus]

Not true - the "no load" setting of the carb is a max, say 13500 or whatever and not a working number - just a "carb setting number" and a short duration limit. The max torque is probably close to 7500rpm (I haven't looked it up). You would never want run your saw consistently in wood at 13500, or any higher than required max torque rpm. Short bar and smaller wood at full throttle will not slow the saw down enough at full throttle and almost every uses the throttle as "on/off". Using an 8 tooth rim sprocket helps a lot on the smaller bar/high power. I'm familiar with my saws enough to control the upper limits in the wood, but I see lots who are not.

o.k. everyone jump in and swat me.

Probably, SawTroll is in something right here. I heared too that if to change bar lenght in to the shorter direction you should retune max rpms for the not to kill berings at un-load max rpms

 

[pinus]

I could of course be wrong as I am not an engeneer, but I really don't think so. Here we go;
What makes the saw cut wood is chain speed, not torque or power output in itself. The torque is necessary to keep the chain from slowing too much down, and has no value without sufficient rpms.

I think most of us want as much chain speed as possible in the cut, and it is mainly a function of rpms and suffisient torque, balansed by the gearing, chain type and wood in question.

Higher chain speed is the much faster dull chain. I have readed somewhere that several times ago Solo was pushing chain speed of some its saws to 30 and above m/s, but bar and chain and etc, were weared so quickly that Solo stopped going to that direction

 

[jokers]

The max torque is probably close to 7500rpm (I haven't looked it up). You would never want run your saw consistently in wood at 13500, or any higher than required max torque rpm.

The rpm where maximum torque is developed is a limiting factor, but given that horsepower is a term relative to the amount of work done in a prescribed amount of time, running the saw where it develops max horsepower should be the objective for higher production(faster cutting). For most modern, unmodified saws, this is typically between 9,000 and 9,500 rpm.

I agree with SawTroll that you can accurately set a carb on a saw specific to the use of a small bar without worrying about overrevving the saw in the cut. My personal experience supports this and I would say that ehp`s "destructive" testing of his woods saws where he goes out and runs one tank after another through his modded saws with a short bar to prove them, also supports this belief.

BTW, Ed`s saws are running far above factory max torque and horsepower ranges, you just have to know the limitations of the saw you have in your hands.

Short bar and smaller wood at full throttle will not slow the saw down enough at full throttle........Using an 8 tooth rim sprocket helps a lot on the smaller bar/high power.

You are putting the cart before the horse here. The use of an 8 pin sprocket is not to increase the load on the saw and thus lower the rpm, the increased gearing is to fully utilize the saw`s power and cut faster. If you truly need to increase the load on the saw, lower the depth gauges, take bigger chips, and cut faster

almost every uses the throttle as "on/off".

I agree that this is the proper throttle technique if what you are saying is that the operators only use two speeds, WFO and dead stop. Feathering the throttle does not properly meter the fuel/air delivered to the engine. Feathering is normally done mostly by newbies/people afraid of the saw and carvers and swedish cope cabin builders. They also go through alot of saws relative to the hours using them.

I can`t understand why anyone would use skip chain on a bar less than 32" long. The homeowner Poulons apparently come with skip chain from the few that I have seen. This is obviously a crutch for their anemic engines. Get the point?

Russ