Bowtie
Gearhead
Im 14 miles North of salina. I think I lost your number, but I remember you giving it to me. I'll PM ya my #
Need more power for Osage Orange!
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Im 14 miles North of salina. I think I lost your number, but I remember you giving it to me. I'll PM ya my #
I think they used to call them "Devil Rows". I've cut some clean off the base and the whole thing just hangs there, suspended from above. The 1050 handled the cutting OK though.
sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
Any round semi-chisel will work fine.
Sounds like the redneck makes a roadtrip in the am!
Bowtie
Gearhead
I mostly use Stihl RSC because I cant find RS anymore . That is for clean wood. If its dirty stuff with a lot of dirt or a rotted center, I use RM or RMC (semi chisel). Semi chisel isnt quite as fast as full chisel, but it isnt slow as molasses, either. Plus semi chisel hold its edge better in dirty wood.
Bowtie
Gearhead
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
sure must be nice to have enough osage orange to burn. around here (tulsa) it's not super rare... nor common either.
2 days ago, was looking at an osage orange tree in Pawhuska, Ok on indian lands where I deer hunt.
osage starts to get more abundant, closer to the Kansas border.
has anyone tried a good sharp square chain on osage? or forget it and go round?
2 days ago, was looking at an osage orange tree in Pawhuska, Ok on indian lands where I deer hunt.
osage starts to get more abundant, closer to the Kansas border.
has anyone tried a good sharp square chain on osage? or forget it and go round?
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Possibilities here is one that will tell ya what they are.
Straight untwisted sections 6 to 8 foot long no knots
cut into three by 2 inch staves with the outter growth
rings the 3" part ends coated to prevent drying cracks
and cured at least two years are worth 50.00 and up
as bow staves! Depending on quality thickness of rings
etc. It is hard to find the great quality stuff but it
exists but even at fifty per stave would make serious
cha-ching for a cord of bow staves! Don't believe me
just look at a traditional bowhunter magazine in the
back pages where they sell them! If you guys come
across quality osage I would buy it possibly just make
sure it is sealed on each end when cut elmers glue
will work to seal it! Cut the crooked stuff for fire wood
the straight stuff you are burning money. I would buy
it unprocessed for twice firewood price and you would
not even have to split stack **** just set aside and coat
the ends keep it off the ground and covered!
Store it in a cool dry place
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serial killer
ArboristSite Operative
I remember 6 months ago telling the mexican to cut everything on a hillside except the lone Osage Orange. He walked right up to the Osage and cut it the heck down while we were all screaming at him to stop. Fricking language barriers.
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The hardness of Osage is similar to a number of Aussie hardwoods so many of us in Oz end up cutting timber this hard everyday and sometimes stuff that is even harder.
Success in really hard wood is not just about power, it is about using a very sharp chain and constantly touching up the chain so it never gets dull. When slabbing wood this hard I touch up after every slab. Also the rakers need to be lowered even further than for softwood. In softwoods the rakers dig in a long way enabling the cutters to chip whereas in really hardwood they don't penetrate at all. Some millers also use rakers with 45º points on them as well.
I use a simple formula - my raker depth is 1/10th of my gullet width. This means raker depths as low as 0.045" when the gullet is 0.45". All I can say is it really works
I have milled 16" diam trunks of hard stuff with my 50cc plastic Homelite 340 using low profile chain sharpened in this. On my bigger mill (see link in sig below) with the 076 I have milled hard stuff up to 39" in diameter. I also now only use full comp semichisel chain. I have tried various skip arrangements and all manner of chisel, including square ground, in these really hard woods and they all just get blunt quicker than full comp semi.
Here is a slab of something we call Lemon Scented Gum - its about as hard as Osage.
Sections of this log were over 40" wide (9 ft long) but I decided to stay with the 42" bar (39.5" cut) so I trimmed off the sides. Even with a really sharp chain two full tanks of fuel were needed to cut this slab.
Success in really hard wood is not just about power, it is about using a very sharp chain and constantly touching up the chain so it never gets dull. When slabbing wood this hard I touch up after every slab. Also the rakers need to be lowered even further than for softwood. In softwoods the rakers dig in a long way enabling the cutters to chip whereas in really hardwood they don't penetrate at all. Some millers also use rakers with 45º points on them as well.
I use a simple formula - my raker depth is 1/10th of my gullet width. This means raker depths as low as 0.045" when the gullet is 0.45". All I can say is it really works
I have milled 16" diam trunks of hard stuff with my 50cc plastic Homelite 340 using low profile chain sharpened in this. On my bigger mill (see link in sig below) with the 076 I have milled hard stuff up to 39" in diameter. I also now only use full comp semichisel chain. I have tried various skip arrangements and all manner of chisel, including square ground, in these really hard woods and they all just get blunt quicker than full comp semi.
Here is a slab of something we call Lemon Scented Gum - its about as hard as Osage.
Sections of this log were over 40" wide (9 ft long) but I decided to stay with the 42" bar (39.5" cut) so I trimmed off the sides. Even with a really sharp chain two full tanks of fuel were needed to cut this slab.
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tdi-rick
Addicted to ArboristSite
and this is the same advice all the old time cutters keep giving me Bill, but of course I'm going to try and re-invent the wheel and give full chisel and square a go in yellow box and ironbark
Interesting your thoughts on raker height for ripping. Do you reckon that stands for cross cut as well ?
And FWIW, Osage Orange is about as hard as our Brushbox, (9.1kN Janka) and a little harder than Blackbutt, (8.9kN) so timbers like Red Gum, (10kN Janka) and Ironbark (16.3 !!) are quite a bit harder, with higher densities.
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and this is the same advice all the old time cutters keep giving me Bill, but of course I'm going to try and re-invent the wheel and give full chisel and square a go in yellow box and ironbark
Interesting your thoughts on raker height for ripping. Do you reckon that stands for cross cut as well ?
Yeah, I had to try it for myself as well. In terms of raker heights my idea is not new, it's what the Carlton filo-plate effectively does anyway but I like to know what I'm doing in terms of numbers.
Out West (Australia that is!) we have something called Tuart which is 9.4 kN, and Wandoo which is 9.9 kN. And something called Jam which is like gidgee (13kN). Tuart is a double whammy because it pullys up heaps of silica into itself if it is at all stressed during its life and most of them are. This stuff really kills any chain.
I have milled heaps of Brushbox, its real pretty timber.
Peacock
Addicted to ArboristSite
I really don't think it cuts any harder than dead, dry oak. And certainly not harder than dead locust. I prefer to run square chisel through it. Holds an edge for a good while. Biggest I've cut is ~35''. Here's a smaller one.
cord arrow
Addicted to ArboristSite
Osage is abundant here...we love the stuff.
The trick for me is my old 65...the avatar saw. Top end is much slower than the new saws, full or skip doesn't seem to make a lot of difference...slight edge to full comp I suppose.
My 346 runs and hides from the stuff...I don't even like to limb with it...seems 14 grand and rock hard wood can't get along.
Buddy runs an old Mac in the stuff...both it and the 65 perform very well in the hedge...
The trick for me is my old 65...the avatar saw. Top end is much slower than the new saws, full or skip doesn't seem to make a lot of difference...slight edge to full comp I suppose.
My 346 runs and hides from the stuff...I don't even like to limb with it...seems 14 grand and rock hard wood can't get along.
Buddy runs an old Mac in the stuff...both it and the 65 perform very well in the hedge...
cord arrow
Addicted to ArboristSite
Peacock
Addicted to ArboristSite
Totally agree. Old saws are well suited to tough grained wood like hedge. Dad's 041 is about perfect for it.
I HATE limbing hedge. Between the thorns and the fact that the wood seems much harder the closer you get to the top can combine for a pretty unproductive experience.
Old Mac Guy
ArboristSite Operative
Hey, you guys!!!... It's me, Old Mac Guy, who is interested in the Bodark for milling. We were talking about it in the "How's Your Woodpile Coming" thread.
Bowtie, since you're 400+ one-way miles from me, I'm gonna have to rely on you (and sawinredneck, if he gets there) to cut up some nice clean slabs and box 'em and mail 'em to me. Ignore the mis-direction from anyone else about Bodark having any commercial value... it's just common ol' Thorn-apple hedge wood and you shouldn't ask anything more than saw fuel and postage for some nice, straight, 6'x4"x4" pieces with no worm-holes... :hmm3grin2orange:
Hurry up!!
Cheese
ArboristSite Operative
So a 5100 is dead and the poor guy is getting told to run a 660/395? I know this is a support group, but what about the other times when a 660 is a real brute? I just think, for the recreational cutter, that is too much saw to be the only one.
Wouldn't something like a 460 or 7900 be better for everyday use while giving noticeable extra power for agent orange?
Good luck with the choice,
Adrian
(660 owner, closet 660 lover, tough guy in training so I have a 440 too)
Wouldn't something like a 460 or 7900 be better for everyday use while giving noticeable extra power for agent orange?
Good luck with the choice,
Adrian
(660 owner, closet 660 lover, tough guy in training so I have a 440 too)
LOL Cheese. Well the 5100 will get fixed since it is handier for small jobs and softer woods. And because it was my first saw.
In the meantime my dealer had a good day and I am smiling as I just purchased an MS 441 with 20" blade. Balances very nicely, and should let me cut lots of firewood for next winter. Just because the 5100 had some dust issues, and because Osage Orange cuts dusty, I choose the MS441 over the MS460 with the newer centrifugal air stream.
Anyway I need to work up to a 660 - my muscles don't bulge enough yet
Also now that I have 50cc and 70cc saws I still have an excuse to get a 90cc saw in the future, although I've no idea what I would be cutting that needs that power.
Thanks for all the support and suggestions. This is a great, and most importantly, knowledgeable and friendly forum.
In the meantime my dealer had a good day and I am smiling as I just purchased an MS 441 with 20" blade. Balances very nicely, and should let me cut lots of firewood for next winter. Just because the 5100 had some dust issues, and because Osage Orange cuts dusty, I choose the MS441 over the MS460 with the newer centrifugal air stream.
Anyway I need to work up to a 660 - my muscles don't bulge enough yet
Also now that I have 50cc and 70cc saws I still have an excuse to get a 90cc saw in the future, although I've no idea what I would be cutting that needs that power.Thanks for all the support and suggestions. This is a great, and most importantly, knowledgeable and friendly forum.
