Up until today, the biggest red oak I ever cut had 2630ish bdft in it. Today I cut one that had 2704 in it. That's the logs I got to put on the truck. Unfortunately, which is often the case when cutting trees this big, I lost over 300 bdft in 3 logs of a fork when it hit the ground. So all told, this tree had over 3000 ft in it! 390xp with a 28 inch bar and I was really wishing for a 32'!
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For us bdft challenged, what was the butt diameter and the length of the logs?
Ron
Ron
I didn't even think of posting those numbers, just assumed since it was forestry and logging, folks would know? I had to stump it higher than normal because I knew I didn't have enough bar to cut it low, but it was 5 ft across the stump, 4 main trunk logs, 3 10 footers and an 8 foot log.
Thanks. I am just a trespasser here but like the folks and I try to visualize what is being said.
Ron
Ron
Lotsa folks on here not in the biz as it were, and those that are not all of us spreckin ze same timber talk as it were lol. Doyle scale vs Scribner vs Int vw Metric vs tonnage vs gross volume etc etc etc
5'er is pretty skookum though
Doyle is the scale used anywhere around here. Honestly, its the only way Ive ever sold logs with the exception of cedar, which is measured on a different scale or sold by weight.
Using a doyle log rule looks like Chinese arithmetic to the uneducated but its pretty simple once you figure it out. LOL which brings up a fond memory of my Dad, God rest his soul. Scalers at the sawmills sometimes are notorious for slipping the stick or shorting the logger on his measurements. I heard my Dad tell a mill foreman once that there would be more log scalers in hell than any other group and every one of them would be running around trying to shortchange the devil when measuring his "penis". Only he didn't say "penis".
Using a doyle log rule looks like Chinese arithmetic to the uneducated but its pretty simple once you figure it out. LOL which brings up a fond memory of my Dad, God rest his soul. Scalers at the sawmills sometimes are notorious for slipping the stick or shorting the logger on his measurements. I heard my Dad tell a mill foreman once that there would be more log scalers in hell than any other group and every one of them would be running around trying to shortchange the devil when measuring his "penis". Only he didn't say "penis".
Pretty sure every scaler in the world has a surgically lengthened thumb (part of the union admission...)
Its all Scribner dec. C out here, they are very similar but Scrbner is more better for long logs (or at least thats what they claim...)
Either way its never as much as it should be.
If you ever find yourself dealing with a less then "accurate" scaler, scale them all yourself and write down what you get on the ends of each log... you may find that the scale miraculously starts matching up a little closer.
Jhenderson
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New England is all International scale. It‘s said to be the closest to actual amount sawn if everything is cut into 1 inch boards. Dimension stock and beams, not so much. It allows for 1/4 inch kerf for the saw and a 4 inch face. For a while Maine used the “ Bangor Rule “ which was international but used a 1/8 kerf allowance for band saws. Being as theres more small diameter logs going into the stud mills there it made for a better check to the logger. It doesn’t sound like much but that extra 1/8 makes a big difference. I haven’t heard of anybody up there using it for years now.
That brings back even more found memories of my Dad! Way back in the late 80s-early 90s the mills started paying a "veneer" grade for red oak. We sent a load into the mill and my Dad told the truck driver to tell the scaler that at least 4 of those logs would veneer. 2nd load, driver came back and said the scaler put them in veneer. 3rd load, the truck driver came back and said the scaler said he was knocking those logs down a grade. My Dad told us to sharpen a saw and fill it up with gas. He took it and followed the truck in with the 4th load that day. When he got there those 4 red oak logs were still laying out separated from the rest. He got out of the truck, grabbed the saw and started cutting them up into 20 INCH SECTIONS! Scaler came running over telling him he couldn't do that, He, not so politely, told the scaler to go fornicate himself, those logs were still ours and he would cut them into firewood before he let a &^(&*^(&^&(^&^&^ steal them and that's exactly what he did! The funniest part is, the mill owner actually made the scaler put them BACK in veneer grade and pay us for them even though they were firewood now. We never had any more problems getting logs graded correctly at that mill after that.
I sold a veneer grade red oak log once in that time frame. $800 to $1100, I don’t remember.. Logger who transported it got 50% or 60%, the broker and I split the remainder.
Since then I have cut many into firewood as they weren’t mine to sell.
Ron
Since then I have cut many into firewood as they weren’t mine to sell.
Ron
The stores are open. Go buy a 32". Just saying.
lol OTAgreed. Something else we always did was put a red dot on the end signifying we scaled them with no number but that would make the buyer really think about what he/she was doing. Believe it or not most of the time their scale was better numbers than ours. Our normal buyers never even looked at our scale, they just paid us as they knew we were honest. You learned who was crooked real fast and did not deal with them. Word spread fast also! Cj
When I measure a load or even a log, I give them the benefit of the doubt and I take it the least way, inside both barks. A Doyle scale has a hook on it for a reason, its designed to give a bark and take a bark. ALMOST none of the mill scalers will use the hook though.
I had out about 20,000 feet of veneer walnut once, all spread out and full length trees. I measured that whole pile of logs myself and totaled up what I figured was there in footage. I had 5 different buyers come give me bids on the pile, some spent as many as 4 hours figuring and quoting. After one guy measured them, he asked me what I came up with and I told him. His measurement and mine was only 39 feet apart. LOL. Hew didn't get them, he was 2nd high bidder I think. The guy that spent the longest lowballed the most, with there being 20000 dollars between high and low bidder!
A few weeks later I had out about that many more logs and the one guy pulled up, asked me what I measured them for and gave me a bid without scaling a log. He still came in 2nd, but he was a strong bidder!
Scribner is more better for the buyer when long logs are brought in. That's why in the bad old days of logging the big punkins, mills wanted the butt log to be 40 feet. Because the scaling cylinder diameter was what the small end diameter was, the mills got some free wood out of it.
There is a manual for Idaho Scalers on line and it is an excellent reference for scaling out west, or if you are interested in scaling. I think the online version even has pictures. I have a hard copy that we were required to buy for school and it has come in handy at times.
https://ibsp.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/64/2018/06/IdahoLogScalingManual-online.pdf
Note to self: Never get a higher score than the boys on a scaling utilization test. They go into shock and then are quite huffy and talk about lucky guesses and stuff, which it was not.
There is a manual for Idaho Scalers on line and it is an excellent reference for scaling out west, or if you are interested in scaling. I think the online version even has pictures. I have a hard copy that we were required to buy for school and it has come in handy at times.
https://ibsp.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/64/2018/06/IdahoLogScalingManual-online.pdf
Note to self: Never get a higher score than the boys on a scaling utilization test. They go into shock and then are quite huffy and talk about lucky guesses and stuff, which it was not.
I don't expect to ever be in the business out west unfortunately and theres no way I can convert mills around here to change scales. UNLESS somebody wants to give me a job out there cutting giant redwoods! Id drive all the way back to commifornia just to get to cut a couple of those trees!
FYI, Red dots around here signify DNR owned wood... so if you don't have a DNR contract, you aint getting paid, better to use some other color.
meh, if you've cut cedar its not a whole lot different, thicker bark and itchy too...
Falling big tall timber is a kick in the pants though. Beats the **** out of scrubby hardwoods all day everyday.
How much should the landowner receive for this type load of logs?? (ballpark, you know you can guess better than a landowner!!)
or this one??
I know there are variables,, but, there must be a ballpark number,,??
or this one??
I know there are variables,, but, there must be a ballpark number,,??
to be completely honest, there are simply too many variables, species, actual scale, current log prices, defect, lengths, all of it has an effect, and combined it becomes too much to guess value alone.How much should the landowner receive for this type load of logs?? (ballpark, you know you can guess better than a landowner!!)
or this one??
I know there are variables,, but, there must be a ballpark number,,??
guys familiar with that type of truck, and the area can give you a ball park of volume on the truck, in which I would hazard a guess of around 4-5000 bf, but I use Scribner, where that loads from they likely use Doyle and will do slightly better on shorter logs so as high as maybe 6000bf, From there you can check current log prices and do the math but remember log prices change weekly/monthly or at worst daily so today they could be worth lots of money, tomorrow could be you have to pay the truck out of pocket to get rid of them.
1st load, about 5500 ft, total price of around $4200
2nd load, about 4200 ft, total price of around $3600
How close am I? landowner would get half of each loads price.
2nd load, about 4200 ft, total price of around $3600
How close am I? landowner would get half of each loads price.
That is amazing,, I never had a price per load before,,
I went back and checked,, (we actually have a picture of EVERY load that went out)
I ended up averaging $1875 per load of logs,,, in my pocket
So, according to that, and your estimate,, we did pretty good,, I guess,,,
I know we were happy to get the $$,,,
