New SpeedPro Kinetic Log Splitter from TSC...

[Dozer Man]

woke up and can't get back to sleep

Last weekend I had my first violent misfire. I've had very few misfires but none like this one. It was on a short 10" endcut piece of knotty cherry. My first thought was that the shorter piece had something to do with it. But after running a couple more shorts and then longs I couldn't get it to happen again. I always run the engine at around half throttle just to slow things down. It always seemed to engage better so I've kept running that way. Imho there is no reason for the ram speed to be so high. I've thought about putting a larger clutch pulley on. That would lower the "gear ratio" which would slow things down. But then I was afraid it would be like down shifting a truck. The lower the gear the lower the speed, but the higher the torque/pulling power. Now after seeing the hard misfire in person, I'm not sure if a gear ratio reduction would help or amplify the dis-engagement issue. It might not disengage as often but when it does the engine speed will be higher into its torque range and exert more force. On the other hand, as Cmccul8146 asked me...Just because you lowered the gear ratio, why would you feel the need to run the engine at higher throttle settings, that defeats the purpose of slowing things down. I explained to him how I caught a lot of grief from others over the half throttle issue earlier in this thread. We could learn a lot by picking his brain.

Sorry for rambling, I hope someone finds it pertinant to the issue. I'm not sure if just replacing the rack is a complete fix. It seems to be an engagement/dis-engagement issue also. Some of you that have split large quantities with these, have you noticed a "bow" in the rack?? Just curious.

If anyone has talked to speeco lately, I would really like to know there thoughts on all of this. I'm just getting to my "down time" at work, which is when I do most of my sawing/splitting. Metal gets brittle in the cold and I was hoping to have these issues resolved before winter.

Again, thanks to all for there posts. Keep them coming, we'll get to the bottom of this!


Unrelated Issue: It can stop raining any time now!!!

 

[ziggo_2]

Last weekend I had my first violent misfire. I've had very few misfires but none like this one. It was on a short 10" endcut piece of knotty cherry. My first thought was that the shorter piece had something to do with it. But after running a couple more shorts and then longs I couldn't get it to happen again. I always run the engine at around half throttle just to slow things down. It always seemed to engage better so I've kept running that way. Imho there is no reason for the ram speed to be so high. I've thought about putting a larger clutch pulley on. That would lower the "gear ratio" which would slow things down. But then I was afraid it would be like down shifting a truck. The lower the gear the lower the speed, but the higher the torque/pulling power. Now after seeing the hard misfire in person, I'm not sure if a gear ratio reduction would help or amplify the dis-engagement issue. It might not disengage as often but when it does the engine speed will be higher into its torque range and exert more force. On the other hand, as Cmccul8146 asked me...Just because you lowered the gear ratio, why would you feel the need to run the engine at higher throttle settings, that defeats the purpose of slowing things down. I explained to him how I caught a lot of grief from others over the half throttle issue earlier in this thread. We could learn a lot by picking his brain.

Sorry for rambling, I hope someone finds it pertinant to the issue. I'm not sure if just replacing the rack is a complete fix. It seems to be an engagement/dis-engagement issue also. Some of you that have split large quantities with these, have you noticed a "bow" in the rack?? Just curious.

If anyone has talked to speeco lately, I would really like to know there thoughts on all of this. I'm just getting to my "down time" at work, which is when I do most of my sawing/splitting. Metal gets brittle in the cold and I was hoping to have these issues resolved before winter.

Again, thanks to all for there posts. Keep them coming, we'll get to the bottom of this!


Unrelated Issue: It can stop raining any time now!!!

You can be as careful as you want and have undivided attention and still make mistakes.

SS dont cost a grand more. since your ordering online your saving the tax, which makes it about $600 more than the speeco. 600 dollars more for a proven splitter sounds like a better deal to me.

Is a stihl saw better than a wild thing? of course it is, thats why it costs more.

Heres something else to think about- speeco make them then sells them to tsc, so speeco already marked up the price so they could make a profit probaby 30% or maybe more. the tsc marks them up some more, at 30%. So if you deduct all that it would mean speecos cost to make them is around 800-900 dollars. So what did you really get for your money?

And why did you go out and buy the first one knowing that there was most likely going to be problems?

If it dont last as long as a SS or even a DR then no your not saving any money....And we already know it wont last. Pretty soon we will have post that sound similar to this: I wish i wouldve saved for the SS instead of this piece of junk!

If i was going to buy one it would be the SS purely out of respect to the man who started it all...Not to mention the proven reliability.

Buy a splitter for its speed then slow it down, that make a lot of sense.

You keep polishing that turd and see if it turns to gold. Im gonna go split some wood.

As for the people having problems, Trying to fix it yourself will most likely void warranty and then when the find a solution you will be screwed....again.

 

[Dozer Man]

your math is off

Again........I did my homework before purchase. You should too.
Speedpro: $1699+tax=$1818+/-
SS j model: $2600(w/table)+shipping(200-300)=$2800 plus!!!
DR Rapidfire:$2600+shipping(225+/-)=$2800 plus!!! (You should check your shipping price)
Thats a minimum of a grand difference any way you look at it. Sorry I needed a splitter now. I don't want a hydro unit. I worked my butt off to save the money for a splitter this year and I found the oportunity to buy a kinetic splitter for the price of a hydro. If speeco decides not to fix these and just recall them, then I will return it. Or I might just build my own engagement mechanism and buy my own hardened rack and fix this one myself.

Ziggo,
If you haven't had the opportunity to split a truck load of wood with one of the speedpros, that didn't have problems, well then you just don't get it(1/3cord=+/-30min. loaded in the truck by myself). We that have used one extensively, love them. Yes, we could take them back and crap out a grand and get the SS. But for myself, I can't, and never could, justify the price of the SS. I think speedpro is overpriced too. If Speeco only has $6-800 in these machines, then DR and SS can't have much over a grand in there's(and no middle man). I would suggest that you go back and read the whole thread before you pass judgement. Fyi...I was one of the first to buy one of these, and although I haven't split as much wood as others, I have not had an issue so far. Trust me, I am concerned about the fix that speeco will make. But as long as they do fix it, and fix it right, then I'm still ahead by at least a grand. Btw...sometimes I do make my living with a chainsaw, that's why I buy Stihl(I don't make a living with a splitter). But just because I paid the extra premium for stihl doesn't mean you always get a perfect product. All brands will have an issue sometime, otherwise we wouldn't need a warranty (I got an 026 that's had carb and pickup issues since new).

 

[ziggo_2]

Again........I did my homwork before purchase. You should too.
Speedpro: $1699+tax=$1818+/-
SS j model: $2600(w/table)+shipping(200-300)=$2800 plus!!!
DR Rapidfire:$2600+shipping(225+/-)=$2800 plus!!! (You should check your shipping price)
Thats a minimum of a grand difference any way you look at it. Sorry I needed a splitter now. I don't want a hydro unit. I worked my butt off to save the money for a splitter this year and I found the oportunity to buy a kinetic splitter for the price of a hydro. If speeco decides not to fix these and just recall them, then I will return it. Or I might just build my own engagement mechanism and buy my own hardened rack and fix this one myself.

Ziggo,
If you haven't had the opportunity to split a truck load of wood with one of the speedpros, that didn't have problems, well then you just don't get it(30+/- min. loaded in the truck by myself). We that have used one extensively, love them. Yes, we could take them back and crap out a grand and get the SS. But for myself, I can't, and never could, justify the price of the SS. I think speedpro is overpriced too. If Speeco only has $6-800 in these machines, then DR and SS can't have much over a grand in there's(and no middle man). I would suggest that you go back and read the whole thread before you pass judgement. Fyi...I was one of the first to buy one of these, and although I haven't split as much wood as others, I have not had an issue so far. Trust me, I am concerned about the fix that speeco will make. But as long as they do fix it, and fix it right, then I'm still ahead by at least a grand. Btw...sometimes I do make my living with a chainsaw, that's why I buy Stihl. But just because I paid the extra premium for stihl doesn't mean you always get a perfect product. All brands will have an issue sometime, otherwise we wouldn't need a warranty (I got an 026 that's had carb and pickup issues since new).

Sounds like you have all the answers already....good luck.

 

[sunfish]

Imho there is no reason for the ram speed to be so high. I've thought about putting a larger clutch pulley on. That would lower the "gear ratio" which would slow things down. But then I was afraid it would be like down shifting a truck. The lower the gear the lower the speed, but the higher the torque/pulling power.

A larger clutch pulley on the motor will increase the flywheel RPM, not decrease it.

When I talked to Paul at SS about putting an electric motor on mine, he said "make sure not to exceed 300 RPM on the flywheel speed".

Slowing down the flywheel RPM will likely help the situation.

 

[Dozer Man]

As do you...

Sounds like you have all the answers already....good luck.

Ziggo,
If you are right, it doesn't make me wrong...
If I am right, then it doesn't make you wrong either...

I just think that if the "teathing issues" on this machine are fixed, then I think it will be a good machine. Glass half full kinda crap I guess. I have to have faith in speeco, I don't have an extra grand for the SS (wife would shoot me...then kill me too!). And I don't wanna go back to a hydro unit.

I'm good, hope you are too...

 

[Dozer Man]

A larger clutch pulley on the motor will increase the flywheel RPM, not decrease it.

When I talked to Paul at SS about putting an electric motor on mine, he said "make sure not to exceed 300 RPM on the flywheel speed".

Slowing down the flywheel RPM will likely help the situation.

I think you are correct...Smaller sprocket in front(drive) raises the gear ratio on a motorcycle. I was thinkin the other way around. It's been 20 years since my m/c roadracing days, or maybe one too many cracked helmets. oops lol

I am thinking of a way to lower the flywheel speed...anyways. Thanks for the correction.


Distraction: Toby Keith "Red Solo Cup" video....hilarious!!!

 

[sunfish]

I think you are correct...Smaller sprocket in front(drive) raises the gear ratio on a motorcycle. I was thinkin the other way around. It's been 20 years since my m/c roadracing days, or maybe one too many cracked helmets. oops lol

I am thinking of a way to lower the flywheel speed...anyways. Thanks for the correction.


Distraction: Toby Keith "Red Solo Cup" video....hilarious!!!

Yes, just measure the dia of the clutch pulley you have and see if you can find a smaller one. It would be a very easy swap and cheap too. I also don't feel the extra torque from the motor will be an issue, as the speed and weight of the flywheels is what makes these things work.

 

[philwillmt]

Last weekend I had my first violent misfire. I've had very few misfires but none like this one. It was on a short 10" endcut piece of knotty cherry. My first thought was that the shorter piece had something to do with it. But after running a couple more shorts and then longs I couldn't get it to happen again. I always run the engine at around half throttle just to slow things down. It always seemed to engage better so I've kept running that way. Imho there is no reason for the ram speed to be so high. I've thought about putting a larger clutch pulley on. That would lower the "gear ratio" which would slow things down. But then I was afraid it would be like down shifting a truck. The lower the gear the lower the speed, but the higher the torque/pulling power. Now after seeing the hard misfire in person, I'm not sure if a gear ratio reduction would help or amplify the dis-engagement issue. It might not disengage as often but when it does the engine speed will be higher into its torque range and exert more force. On the other hand, as Cmccul8146 asked me...Just because you lowered the gear ratio, why would you feel the need to run the engine at higher throttle settings, that defeats the purpose of slowing things down. I explained to him how I caught a lot of grief from others over the half throttle issue earlier in this thread. We could learn a lot by picking his brain.

Dozer Man,

I run my engine at around half speed also. I have actually tried running it slower than that, but I notice when I go much below half throttle, the clutch starts slipping and chattering. Evidently there is not enough centrifugal force at less than half throttle to overcome the spring tension on the clutch pads, thus they begin to retract and slip.

If you are interested in slowing your flywheels down, you would want to install a smaller clutch instead of a larger one. Or, find some larger flywheels. But then you would really have a hard time getting larger (heavier) flywheels stopped during a hard strike!

If we keep troubleshooting this splitter, maybe eventually we will come up with a design of our own and enter the market!:hmm3grin2orange: I think another thing I would change would be the size of the engine...a 3 or 4 hp. would be more than enough to keep flywheels spinning! I even thought about incorporating one of those old "hit-and-miss" engines on one of these splitters! I'm sure that's where the kinetic flywheel idea originally came from anyway! It seems I remember someone on this thread talking about the SuperSplit being around for 30 years or so, and being the original designer of the kinetic splitter. While they may have been the first one to manufacture a kinetic splitter, the kinetic machine (A.K.A. "hit-and-miss" engine) has been around a lot longer than 30 years. We're not near as smart as we think we are these days!:eek2:

 

[KiwiBro]

Are SP's motors the 'splash' type that need the revs to lube adequately? Did the SP motor come with it's own manual that details any min' operating RPM?
On some conveyors, they use a small (I think it's something like 3.5HP) motor that has the reduction gear built into the engine, but they don't have the rapidly varying loads of one of these splitters, me thinks. Not sure of the ratio's though and whether it would die before imparting momentum to the flywheels when the pressure came on during tough but not impenetrable wood and it needed to keep flywheels from dropping their revs too much. It might stall too often?

 

[Dozer Man]

speeco rep

Are SP's motors the 'splash' type that need the revs to lube adequately? Did the SP motor come with it's own manual that details any min' operating RPM?
On some conveyors, they use a small (I think it's something like 3.5HP) motor that has the reduction gear built into the engine, but they don't have the rapidly varying loads of one of these splitters, me thinks. Not sure of the ratio's though and whether it would die before imparting momentum to the flywheels when the pressure came on during tough but not impenetrable wood and it needed to keep flywheels from dropping their revs too much. It might stall too often?

When I heard about the stop sale issue, the first thing I did was call Speeco. The rep I talked to was very informative. While I had him on the phone for the obvious repair/recall reasons, I asked about throttle settings. He basically told me that his only concern would be making sure that you have enough rpm to make the clutch engage properly. Other than that he said set it where you want it. He said that if speeco wanted it to run at a predetermined rpm, they would have set it that way. Idk about the oil splash except that imho it has to splash oil at all rpm not just wot.

I guess I think of it more like a mini-bike. It's only under load for brief moments and I certainly wouldn't want my 5yr old running it WOT all the time.

Just my thoughts anyways.

 

[COUNTRY6543]

Fixed: I hope

Ok folks, I did alot of R/D tonight. It is raining..AGAIN, so I brought the splitter in the garage and tore it down. I think I got the bent rod issue figured out. If you tear into this thing you will see that the engagement rod goes through the cover and then down through another peice of steel and then down to the engagement cam. When the splitter violently disengages it throws that cam upward. There is no stop to keep the cam from traveling up and over center and forcing the center of the rod foreward into the the center peice of steel that it goes through. When this occurs the rod bends where it goes through the center steel plate. Then the machine does not want to engage. What I did was take the steel peice off that the cover attaches to and made the hole much larger for the rod to go through. This allows the rod to travel foreward during violent disengagement and not hit the front of the steel plate. I also took a 3/8x5 bolt and ran it horizontally just above the engagement cam and covered it in plastic fuel line for a buffer. When the machine disengages and throws the cam up it will hit the bolt and not be allowed to travel over center thus protecting the engagement rod from violent foreward travel. By the way, I did have to take the driver's side flywheel off to make the mods.

Next I pulled up the DR/SS pictures and looked at there cam engagement. Both machines force their engagement cam overcenter and it appears that the user has to disengage the machine before rearward travel is obtained. If you look at our cam engagement it looks as though the cam engagement is stopped at 90 degrees and not over center. There is a rod that stops the cam from going over center. If that rod/stop was moved ahead about an 1/8 to 1/4 inch it would allow overcenter engagement and be a more secure lockup. I have not moved the cam engagement foreward yet because it looks like it's going to take so doing. I took some pictures along the way and am going to try and figure out how to get them on here. Took it out to the wood pile and tried to find the narliest nastiest wood I had and it split no problems. Before I move the cam stop I want to try this first and see if I am on the right track. I hope you all can follow this. It's hard to put this stuff in words.

By the way Ziggo2, I am getting about sick of your, you bought crap and should have researched more, comments. As I see it you don't even have one of these splitters and are just taking up valuable thread space. If you don't have anything to contribute, other than arguing then I would appreciate keeping comments to yourself.

 

[Dozer Man]

On right track

Country,
You are definitely on the right track. You are delving in a lot farther than I have. But I've looked at the picks of the DR and SS engagement mechanism and was going to see how the speedpro compared. I seen that they have an adjustible "stop". I believe it is to stop the cam AFTER it breaks overcenter. That is where I was going to start. I don't believe these things should be disengaging except at the end of the cycle. From what I've read, none of the others disengage. They stall the flywheels and the clutch lets the engine keep going until it's manually disengaged. The other issue I'm looking into is flywheel speed. Hope to see your pics when you can.

Great right up and I agree with you about ziggo. I'm not sure he realizes this thread is 30+ pages old and that TSC has stopped selling the speedpro. So there is no reason to try and deter buyers. Most of us still writing in this thread have made a decision or commitment to follow through with this thing. We are trying to discuss fixes for the issues. With things happening the way they are none of us can hardly recommend the speedpro for purchase, at least for now. I'm sure we all hope to be able to recommend this machine soon though. When speeco gets the issues fixed, I'm hoping we can look back on this as first run issues that were properly resolved. Maybe even say we had a hand in it, who knows.

 

[COUNTRY6543]

If you guys look there has been over 33,000 views on this thread. That is alot of people for this. I don't know how you all feel but someone should start a new thread about Speed Pro fixes and start discussion on possible fixes for this machine. I really would like to know how many of these machines are out there right now. I often wonder how many people will or have came to this board looking for answers and right now there is only a handfull of us that are sticking it out. Ha... going where no man has gone before.

Dozer, I completely understand where you are coming from when you say that you believe in this machine and really want it to work. I am there with you and as long as parts don't start flying, I am going to see this thing through. Oh and btw I had a 10% coupon from TSC so mine was about 1550.00 making the SS and DR over a grand more. Right now I have 1.42 in parts from, you guessed it TSC.

 

[Oneslackr]

I was originally looking at perhaps buying one of these splitters for my dad so I've been following this thread closely & have read every single post. I got curious as to what had happened since I had originally seen the SpeedPro in a TSC flier but then couldn't find it on the TSC or Speeco website. I certainly hope Speeco comes through for you guys and makes things right. Now I'm back to looking at hydraulic splitters for my dad, because a DR or SS is over priced for what he would use it for.

FWIW, I don't think anyone is an idiot for buying one of these splitters or for trying to save some of their hard earned money instead of spending it on a DR or SS. Some might have more money than they know what to do with but for most people money doesn't grow on trees. I don't see the need to put others down for trying to live within their means or for trying to save $1k or so. I guess some people need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves, usually people who are insecure or have deep seeded inferiority issues.

 

[BILLSFIREWOOD]

I was originally looking at perhaps buying one of these splitters for my dad so I've been following this thread closely & have read every single post. I got curious as to what had happened since I had originally seen the SpeedPro in a TSC flier but then couldn't find it on the TSC or Speeco website. I certainly hope Speeco comes through for you guys and makes things right. Now I'm back to looking at hydraulic splitters for my dad, because a DR or SS is over priced for what he would use it for.

FWIW, I don't think anyone is an idiot for buying one of these splitters or for trying save some of their hard earned money instead of spending it on a DR or SS. Some might have more money than they know what to do with but for most people money doesn't grow on trees. I don't see the need to put others down for trying to live within their means or for trying to save $1k or so. I guess some people need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves, usually people who are insecure or have deep seeded inferiority issues.

Good one. You are right.

 

[D&B Mack]

I was originally looking at perhaps buying one of these splitters for my dad so I've been following this thread closely & have read every single post. I got curious as to what had happened since I had originally seen the SpeedPro in a TSC flier but then couldn't find it on the TSC or Speeco website. I certainly hope Speeco comes through for you guys and makes things right. Now I'm back to looking at hydraulic splitters for my dad, because a DR or SS is over priced for what he would use it for.

FWIW, I don't think anyone is an idiot for buying one of these splitters or for trying save some of their hard earned money instead of spending it on a DR or SS. Some might have more money than they know what to do with but for most people money doesn't grow on trees. I don't see the need to put others down for trying to live within their means or for trying to save $1k or so. I guess some people need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves, usually people who are insecure or have deep seeded inferiority issues.

First off, there is no reason for anyone to knock someone for paying less for something. It is each individual's choice. I own the DR, but only because of this thread/website, if others would not have reported back so thoroughly, three days later I would have been a SpeedPro owner.

You do get what you pay for, BUT, not directed at the end consumer. The real point of this statement should be directed at SpeeCo. I can't even imagine they did not do a few test runs before shipping these units out to stores.

SpeeCo promised a machine, for a determined price, to a consumer in order to produce the product. The consumer is not to blame, SpeeCo is. They chose to buy cheap/inferior steel (regardless of where it is from) and then never tested it.

I can tell you what happened (I would be willing to bet). SpeeCo had the rack and pinion made locally on a few units and tested them. They then sent the specs out to bid, a ChiCom company was low bid. So SpeeCo said 'make X amount' to this spec. They then packaged and shipped without assembling one unit and test running it.

 

[sunfish]

FWIW, I don't think anyone is an idiot for buying one of these splitters or for trying save some of their hard earned money instead of spending it on a DR or SS. Some might have more money than they know what to do with but for most people money doesn't grow on trees. I don't see the need to put others down for trying to live within their means or for trying to save $1k or so. I guess some people need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves, usually people who are insecure or have deep seeded inferiority issues.

Right, and no one is an idiot for spending $1000 more on something else. Goes both ways...

No, I do not have more money than I know what to do with... :msp_smile:

 

[Oneslackr]

Right, and no one is an idiot for spending $1000 more on somthing else. Goes both ways...

No, I do not have more money than I know what to do with... :msp_smile:

LOL. Ok. Now someone from the DR/SS camp is getting their knickers twisted in knots after reading my previous post. I don't think there has been one post in this entire thread, including my previous post, were someone implied that people were idiots for spending an extra $1000 for a DR or SS. Yes they cost more than a SpeedPro but they are also higher quality machines than the SpeedPro. I don't believe anyone is questioning that fact.

However, people have definitely made posts in this thread that implied that people are idiots for buying a SpeedPro and that isn't right. That was all I was pointing out.

Now this is how a kinetic machine should work. It seems to have all of the features that an individual or small crew would need:

firewoodinator from LogRite - YouTube

I wonder how much it costs?

It isn't some crazy/huge/expensive wood processing machine like this:

Palax Power100S Firewood Processor version 02 - YouTube

 

[Denny M]

Just my 2 cents. I have read thie entire thread with interest. I have been thinking about 1 of these splitters for a few years and in August I ordered a Flack Hill Machine. Rght after that I saw where DR and Speedco came out with 1, I may have bought a Speedco if I had known about them, like someone said money doesn't grow on trees. Don't get me wrong I am very happy with my purchase. I have not been home much lately and only have 4.5 hours on this machine so I am far from an expert but I will offer my opinion. I think Country6543 and DB Mack are on the right track. My machine has a locked in place throttle ( 4hp Honda) set at 2800 rpm. The manufacture does not want it running any faster because as I understand it it can be hard on the gears. The throtttle can be adjusted and locked down, I put a nice 40 dollar rpm/tach on mine and can keep the rpm where it needs to be if it ever needs adjusted. I have watched the Speedpro vids and it seems very fast, this would be based on flywheel rpm and pinion diameter, I think my pinion diameter is 1 and 3/8ths inches. The engagement on mine goes slightly over center so you can let go of the handle, too much over center and the rack will start to move away from the pinion and increase the backlash of the gears, there is an adjustable bolt to control this. Also when mine stalls the ram it does not disengage it stalls the flywheels and the engine clutch slips until you manually disengage the lever yourself, maybe easier on the gears. Also the manufacture recomends applying grease to the gears. Hope this may help you.