New to the tree side of the biz

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
questions like this prove my point.

buy climbing gear AFTER you get certified? :dizzy: While pricing $40,000 chippers?

you posted first about how we advertise for tree work, and you are going to steal work from a guy like pdql? go to work FOR him, ( or someone else) snowflake. don't take his work. he's forgot more than you will ever know.

I don't like to see people hurt or killed, but there will always be accidents by fools. you can be one of those fools if you want, God gives us all free agency in life.

please be safe, you will only drive up our insurance rates and draw even more unwanted OSHA involvement.:cheers:

1. I'm pretty sure I said I wouldn't buy a 40k wood chipper, I'll be looking for a pre-owned one most likely.
2. I don't know how you'd get the idea that i would even attempt to steal work from someone else ?, I respect the other guy and I know a few of them pretty well to.
3. I don't know why you think I'm not safe, I do everything I'm supposed to do. I wear chaps, ear, eye protection, and i always have a hard hat on MY
4. and the chipper, I know all the dangers and have heard alot of the horror stories along with them. Also I just asked for the price of a bc 1200xl while i was there. What's wrong with that ?
Thanks,
James:)
 
not a lot of Vermeers gettin' towed around here.

the few guys that have them only do because Vermeer is the only one that would finance them.

I found a 2003 Bandit 250 in Mass for 9k.It will out chip the Vermeer equivalent easily.

I don't like financing anything.
 
Everybody has to start somewhere. I'm self taught and doing fine. Did I mention I started when I was 15 I'm now 27? The key is don't get stupid. Know your limits and you'll be fine.
 
the few guys that have them only do because Vermeer is the only one that would finance them.

I found a 2003 Bandit 250 in Mass for 9k.It will out chip the Vermeer equivalent easily.

I don't like financing anything.

Tell me about it, i hear yea on the financing stuff, end up paying more than it was. :D
 
Ok. I found the thread, thanks for the glowing comments guys.

Regarding chippers: call Vegetation Management Services in KCK, buy a Bandit chipper. New or used, it will still be better than a Vermeer.

No, you won't find us too much on the Kansas side. Everybody and his cousin is marketing to the "rich" side of KC, and the competition is fierce. There are too many schoolboys over in Overland Park that mow lawns for themselves, so the prices are too low. I go anywhere the customer is willing to pay a fair price for reliable service.

Much of my work is for corporation and government agencies, anyway.

In my experience, schoolboys that have been doing their own lawns for 3 years do not make good long term employees. Particularly 18-year-olds that "know all the in's & outs of the business" and are accustomed to answering only to themselves. Let's face it, you have a goal, and you are pursuing it. I think that is a fine plan, but I suggest that you abandon your plans for forcibly branching out into tree work. It isn't the big money you think it is.

When one of your customers has a small job that you can handle, feel free to take care of it. Spend some time learning about pruning, and get some good pruning tools. If it grows into more work...Good!

1. You simply shouldn't try to do aerial tree trimming by yourself, particularly with your limited experience. You can get in enough trouble with your feet on the ground. Most of the more successful lawn services in town love to sell landscape pruning, without ever climbing a tree. They send out their fleet of mexicans armed with a Stihl power pruner, and they do pretty good business. Sadly, their pruning usually leaves a bit to be desired.
2. Paying for chippers and specialty trucks to haul them is a full time job. Insurance to cover this kind of operation CANNOT be purchased for "part time" work, so you need high enough revenue to cover the expenses. This is not consistent with your goals of going to school.
3. It is a common thought that tree work is big money, and lawn mowing is just drone work without getting the big bucks. Haven't you noticed all the ratty little trucks running around OPK with the name of some tree service stuck or hand painted to the side of the pickup? There is just as much competition for tree work as there is for lawn work, with this singular difference: you have to sell each and every tree job. The lawn work is regular, and keeps coming back year after year.
4. Those tree customers you work so hard to acquire will expect you to drop what you are doing and take care of them the day after they call. If that means showing up for that fallen branch during December finals when you simply can't go...too bad, they will call me, and then I will have their loyalty. Tree customers generally have higher expectations for quick service, especially if they have an emergency.

I hope this has been helpful. You sound like a pretty ambitious young fellow, and I wish you well.
 
Last edited:
ill come out and say im 17 and ive been climbing for 4 years my dad taught me and he is now out of the biss and i do landscaping and climb for other people. here everyone uses buckets, and i would rather climb ive also used cranes. but i know were to say no. if you get nothing else climbing for 4 years dont mean dip. if it was 10 ya but its been 4 years im still green. remember that:greenchainsaw:
 
Last edited:
Ok. I found the thread, thanks for the glowing comments guys.

Regarding chippers: call Vegetation Management Services in KCK, buy a Bandit chipper. New or used, it will still be better than a Vermeer.

No, you won't find us too much on the Kansas side. Everybody and his cousin is marketing to the "rich" side of KC, and the competition is fierce. There are too many schoolboys over in Overland Park that mow lawns for themselves, so the prices are too low. I go anywhere the customer is willing to pay a fair price for reliable service.

Much of my work is for corporation and government agencies, anyway.

In my experience, schoolboys that have been doing their own lawns for 3 years do not make good long term employees. Particularly 18-year-olds that "know all the in's & outs of the business" and are accustomed to answering only to themselves. Let's face it, you have a goal, and you are pursuing it. I think that is a fine plan, but I suggest that you abandon your plans for forcibly branching out into tree work. It isn't the big money you think it is.

When one of your customers has a small job that you can handle, feel free to take care of it. Spend some time learning about pruning, and get some good pruning tools. If it grows into more work...Good!

1. You simply shouldn't try to do aerial tree trimming by yourself, particularly with your limited experience. You can get in enough trouble with your feet on the ground. Most of the more successful lawn services in town love to sell landscape pruning, without ever climbing a tree. They send out their fleet of mexicans armed with a Stihl power pruner, and they do pretty good business. Sadly, their pruning usually leaves a bit to be desired.
2. Paying for chippers and specialty trucks to haul them is a full time job. Insurance to cover this kind of operation CANNOT be purchased for "part time" work, so you need high enough revenue to cover the expenses. This is not consistent with your goals of going to school.
3. It is a common thought that tree work is big money, and lawn mowing is just drone work without getting the big bucks. Haven't you noticed all the ratty little trucks running around OPK with the name of some tree service stuck or hand painted to the side of the pickup? There is just as much competition for tree work as there is for lawn work, with this singular difference: you have to sell each and every tree job. The lawn work is regular, and keeps coming back year after year.
4. Those tree customers you work so hard to acquire will expect you to drop what you are doing and take care of them the day after they call. If that means showing up for that fallen branch during December finals when you simply can't go...too bad, they will call me, and then I will have their loyalty. Tree customers generally have higher expectations for quick service, especially if they have an emergency.

I hope this has been helpful. You sound like a pretty ambitious young fellow, and I wish you well.

Thanks man !
I've spent a good deal on studying trees, and yes those prople who have the branch fall, if it's during school I have a period between 10:40 and 12:25 that has allowed me to provide good service for people who cannot wait until later. Next year I'll be starting a crew so they can work on days when I'm tied up. Like I said before though I'm going to try and intern with vanbooven www.vanbooventree.com before I go out on my own. I appricate the kind words of advise, thanks pdql, also I'm will not be forcing into the tree stuff I'll be easing into it one step at a time.
Thanks,:dizzy::clap::clap::dizzy:
James Rosa
Team Green Lawn & Landscape
 
Greg Vanbooven is pretty well established and even though I only met him once, he seemed like a pretty nice guy, also his main foreman would be an excellent guy to learn from. He also has nice equipment and trucks to aquire your CDL. Good luck.
 
Vision!

Two of the Eagle Scouts from my Boy Scout troop started lawnmowing businesses to work their way through college and ended up making that their full time endeavor after graduation. Both are doing quite well. When I started my HVAC business there was the occasional comment about me being a part timer stealing work from the ones who really deserved it. Funny, I always thought of it as working full time at two jobs to provide for my family while in transition. It didn't matter that I held a Class A license, was fully insured, and paid off all parts and equipment when purchased.
My belief is what is really being said is to do it the right way, no shortcuts, and no risk taking.
I'm a non tree cutting rip snortin wannabe. I'll never do this professionally and I'll never try. The older I get the less I care and the more I care about what others say to me. Too soon old, too late smart.
Steve
 
I'm curious about something. Every time we get a new guy on here asking questions he invariably gets lambasted by people telling him he's an idiot for even thinking about doing tree work without first working for another company and learning the ropes. My question is this, would any of you guy's that own decent sized tree services hire someone who you knew intended to branch out on there own in your area once you trained them?
 
I'm curious about something. Every time we get a new guy on here asking questions he invariably gets lambasted by people telling him he's an idiot for even thinking about doing tree work without first working for another company and learning the ropes. My question is this, would any of you guy's that own decent sized tree services hire someone who you knew intended to branch out on there own in your area once you trained them?

I just think were all getting tired of ten new start-ups each year with not enough work for more than three services!
 
Thanks man !
I've spent a good deal on studying trees, and yes those prople who have the branch fall, if it's during school I have a period between 10:40 and 12:25 that has allowed me to provide good service for people who cannot wait until later. Next year I'll be starting a crew so they can work on days when I'm tied up. Like I said before though I'm going to try and intern with vanbooven www.vanbooventree.com before I go out on my own. I appricate the kind words of advise, thanks pdql, also I'm will not be forcing into the tree stuff I'll be easing into it one step at a time.
Thanks,:dizzy::clap::clap::dizzy:
James Rosa
Team Green Lawn & Landscape

I have to admire your initiative. You've gotten some good advice - hope all works out for you.

One thing I keep hearing that I don't understand is this "stealing jobs" thing. If the guy is following the rules, I call this competition - you see that in any business. Why is building a better mouse trap "stealing"?
 
I have to admire your initiative. You've gotten some good advice - hope all works out for you.

One thing I keep hearing that I don't understand is this "stealing jobs" thing. If the guy is following the rules, I call this competition - you see that in any business. Why is building a better mouse trap "stealing"?

Buzz its not, however; many new start-ups especially well funded ones, bid too low and turn the biz to crap. Here there is like 25 services in a town only large enough to truly support 5 full time real services, then factor in the illegals hacks and wanna b's and its hard to be optimistic. Having said all that, I too hope it works out for the op from safety to profitability. I have to say though, I don't care for competition in my hoods because it just means cheap rates.
 
Nobody "cares for competition". We'd all like to have a monopoly in our area, but that's not how it's supposed to work here in a free country. (I'm not talking about illegals here). I, for one, am glad we have some semblance of the free market system here in the US. All that said, to the OP, the idea of working for another tree service to gain experience is a good idea. IMO though, the only way one is going to hire you is if you live a bit of a lie lie and don't tell them you plan to branch out on your own some day or if you work for one that's not in your area. I would recommend the second option.
 
This is true. I try not to hire people just as a training school for my own competition.

I recently had an exceedingly hard working fellow tell me that he would like me to train him to climb. He was obviously qualified to learn, as I had watched him most of the afternoon as a groundman for another guy that I was subbing for, and he seemed to have an outstanding work ethic.

Will I hire him?.....No.

It is obvious that his loyalties are to himself and the other contractor. All I would be doing is training the other guy's help so that he no longer needs to call me for tougher trees. that he can't do himself.
 
Nobody "cares for competition". We'd all like to have a monopoly in our area, but that's not how it's supposed to work here in a free country. (I'm not talking about illegals here). I, for one, am glad we have some semblance of the free market system here in the US. All that said, to the OP, the idea of working for another tree service to gain experience is a good idea. IMO though, the only way one is going to hire you is if you live a bit of a lie lie and don't tell them you plan to branch out on your own some day or if you work for one that's not in your area. I would recommend the second option.

Even the second option would force you to live a bit of a lie. You probably shouldn't tell you're new boss that once your trained and capable of making him money that you're going to go out on your own, even if it's a different town. This is a tough question Bearcreek. And I do not have the answer for it. I worked my ass off for a 8 year span...dragging brush, humping logs, progressed to climbing and bucket work, started my own biz on the side, told my boss about the biz, got fired, got rehired, quit, went fulltime. Yeah I lived a bit of a lie, but how else do you do it?
 
Buzz its not, however; many new start-ups especially well funded ones, bid too low and turn the biz to crap. Here there is like 25 services in a town only large enough to truly support 5 full time real services, then factor in the illegals hacks and wanna b's and its hard to be optimistic. Having said all that, I too hope it works out for the op from safety to profitability. I have to say though, I don't care for competition in my hoods because it just means cheap rates.

I understand your point Rope, that's a lot of competition. How do they manage to stay in the area? We could use some good arborists here - way too many hatrack jobs in my neighborhood.
 
That's true but it's kind of my point. Many of the "veterans" on here give new people hell when they ask about starting on their own when in reality there really is not many other options besides lying to an employer, something which I don't think anyone here would encourage. Each situation is unique and sometimes things work out fine. When I started out climbing I learned a few old school style basics from the grandpa of a friend of mine who was retiring from the biz. Other than that i'm almost completely self taught and I've been doing this for around ten years now and have yet to do any serious damage to property. There are a lot of resources out there that a person can take advantage of to teach themselves many of the in's and out's of tree work. Nothing beats experience of course but sometimes a person has to get that on their own.
 
If I got 8 years out somebody and provided them with training in exchange for having an excellent employee for the duration?

I'd hire them all day long, and have the best tree service in town!


JUST LET THEM TRY TO COMPETE WITH ME if I have a well-trained staff of five-year veterans.
 
If I got 8 years out somebody and provided them with training in exchange for having an excellent employee for the duration?

I'd hire them all day long, and have the best tree service in town!


JUST LET THEM TRY TO COMPETE WITH ME if I have a well-trained staff of five-year veterans.

Well, they WERE the best tree service in town. Seems their 8 year veteran found something else to do with his time. lol
 

Latest posts

Back
Top