No More Logger's

[Gologit]

somebody rep this man. i'm out.

great post andy, especially the last paragraph

I got him. Great post.

 

[Bushler]

I like to call myself a timber farmer. That's got a nice charming ring to it.

Jesse, I've been lurking. Pretty busy. Thirty five years telling the wife, "I'll get to that when I'm not logging/fishing, payback has been brutal. She owns me.

I need to get back on the saw or a machine and get some rest!

 

[Dok]

somebody rep this man. i'm out.

great post andy, especially the last paragraph

I got him too, that was very well said!
Dok

 

[joesawer]

Hahaha. Isn't it funny how when we're talking about a topic that leaves a bad taste in your mouth, we can alway's turn to the good old oil topic?

I felt pretty bad about it when me and just about everyone else around here was demoted from logger to thinning contractor. We all still consider ourselves loggers, we just have to cut a lot more crap. This politically correct name changing is just more than I care to swallow.
Whoever said that the forest's are healthier now than 30 years ago hasn't been to the south west. In the 70's the Lincoln NF was being logged, and was in much better shape than it is now. Hell, it's dieing right before our eye's and the enviro's couldn't care less. We can't even salvage what has died because it's cheaper for the FS to cave into the nut cases than to fight them.
My biggest question is; Who is a true environmentalist, the person who spends their life in the forest, making a living and making sure it's still there for their grand children to make a living in, or some wacco self rightous sack of :censored: that might spend 3 weekends a year in the forest?
I'm a LOGGER, and alway's will be!

Andy

The forest here is in much worse shape than it was 30 years ago. Almost all of the old growth and mature second growth died in the second half of that time. What did not die burned. Billions of dollars of worth of timber burned or rotted (while there was a very strong market for it). The Save Our Forest Foundation should be very proud.
I might be doing residential fuel reductions because the forest products market is so bad, but I will always be a Logger.
Most of the tree huggers here where extremely happy to have loggers come bail them out of their environmental catastrophe that they created. When fires threaten their weekend retreats they are all glad to have trees cut in in order to save them. They are very inconsistent at best.

 

[Gologit]

The forest here is in much worse shape than it was 30 years ago. Almost all of the old growth and mature second growth died in the second half of that time. What did not die burned. Billions of dollars of worth of timber burned or rotted (while there was a very strong market for it). The Save Our Forest Foundation should be very proud.
I might be doing residential fuel reductions because the forest products market is so bad, but I will always be a Logger.
Most of the tree huggers here where extremely happy to have loggers come bail them out of their environmental catastrophe that they created. When fires threaten their weekend retreats they are all glad to have trees cut in in order to save them. They are very inconsistent at best.

LOL...They like it when we cut out new ski runs for them, too.

 

[treejunkie13]

I'll go with the name of Timber Harvester, but that's it.
I'm sure that when I do my taxes there will still be LOGGER in the job title.

 

[jrizman]

This is a good thread!

I have learned a ton from LOGGERS, and to add to that, enviros, scientists, professors, etc...

A wise man once told me we should call clearcuts "George"! In reality its an appropriate silvicultural method for harvesting.

I dont really think Im a logger, nor do I pretend to be. I dont cut logs for mills. I work in the woods, and have not figured out a term that everyone can agree on without issue from someone...

I do cut wood, but its small, and doesnt have any worth (money wise, however, we all know the benefits of thinning small dia crap). There is a change in the way things are being done, no matter what your title is, this has to be recognized and adapted to to make it in this environment. Every public timber harvest WILL be challenged by environmental groups because of what has occurred in the past. Im not saying this is right, but it is a fact. Now as mentioned before we are in worse shape than 30yrs ago, look at the beetles, from southern US to Canada (who is now over 25mill acres dead).
Saying all that, we have to adapt so we can move wood out and we must work with these groups. Its the only way to produce and help out the forest since we snuff out fires so quickly (thats a whole nother issue, but ill avoid it .

I have lots more to say, but thats enough for now!

 

[slowp]

LOL...They like it when we cut out new ski runs for them, too.

They do, but when the cut of the ski trails was narrow, basically a skid trail and then used as a skid trail, which contractually requires erosion control work known as waterbars, they get upset with the waterbars. I contend, being a formerly pretty decent skier, that the waterbars would add more challenge to the run. Even a granola ski area (cross country, of course which the true tree huggers do) needs a challenging run to telecrash down. The chief granola skier got mad and wanted me to MAKE the logger come back and remove the waterbars. I did not. I read the contract to him and explained erosion control requirements. They used money collected from the sale to remove the waterbars after all the logging work was completed. If it were a normal skid trail, they'd want waterbars every couple of feet!--exaggeration used to make a point. Funny how thinking changes depending on one's involvement in the use of the land.

jrizman, almost every logging project is now challenged not so much because of what happened in the past, but because many people now make their living working for the Environmental INDUSTRY and must justify their existance and collect donations so they can continue to make a living. Lawyers too.

Now I'm off to change the oil in the Subaru.

 

[Gologit]

jrizman, almost every logging project is now challenged not so much because of what happened in the past, but because many people now make their living working for the Environmental INDUSTRY and must justify their existance and collect donations so they can continue to make a living. Lawyers too.

Well said.

 

[jrizman]

I dont disagree, but they cant really state that in the lawsuit!

The ones I have experience with cited stream damage a good proportion of the time (whether it be an endangered fish or water quality...). This seems interesting seeing as how here in MT, harvesting projects in the state audit were recently found to be over 95%(i cant find the exact number right now) in compliance with BMPs (not law here) and SMZ laws...

As my wife says, its a checks and balances system. if everyone did their job, maybe (i say maybe) we would see less frivolous lawsuits (in all arenas) and could get burned and bug hit timber out before it went to waste (as I see about 2/3rds of it does currently get wasted).

good thing our policy makers have so much experience in the field, HAHAHA :bang:

 

[PB]

No, I don't. And I won't either. I'll stick my thumb in their eye every damn chance I get.

That being said, I say further. I'll do it because I can get away with it. I can get away with it now and maybe for awhile longer. Maybe, if I'm lucky, I can do it until the day I can't pack out anymore.

But the younger guys coming up behind me, will they be able to do that and get away with it? No, they won't. You're right about things changing and the loggers that will take my place when I step aside will live in a very different world. The enviros and bunny huggers know how to use the media and they know how to use law. Loggers, to survive, had damn well better learn how, too.

The next generation of loggers will face problems and challenges that I never had to deal with. Us old guys can cuss political correctness and the environmentalists all we want but it's going to be part of the way things are. There is no getting around that.

The younger guys will have to develop tools to deal with the changes in their world . I think they can do it. But I don't envy them.

In the meantime there has to be somebody around to laugh right in the face
of some of these self-appointed saviors of the planet. I'll be glad to take that job.

Like John D. MacDonald said..."Beware of people who take their crusades too seriously".

You OLD guys don't, very true. The tree huggers of the 60's grew up and raised a new batch of educated tree huggers. The new environmentalists are more reasonable, my experience anyways, and the extremists are not taken seriously and mostly ignored. The Maine hippies are different than the Oregon hippies though.

 

[slowp]

You OLD guys don't, very true. The tree huggers of the 60's grew up and raised a new batch of educated tree huggers. The new environmentalists are more reasonable, my experience anyways, and the extremists are not taken seriously and mostly ignored. The Maine hippies are different than the Oregon hippies though.

Yes. The new tree huggers have educated, spoiled trust fund members in their midst. When their 4 year degree isn't resource related, they have the $$ to go back to school and get a "Masters" in Forestry. Then they are truly experts. Where the old ones spiked trees or sat in them, and still do, the nuevo enviros go to court, and get tax money in the form of grants, to do so.
Yup, way more reasonable.

On a funnier note, what shall I call us tomorrow? An engineer, road crew guy and me, the forester are going out to set chokers, bump knots and rootwads and skid slide debris trees down a road. . I'm trying to decide which outfit to wear, the weather is hard to dress for right now --cold mornings then above freezing upper 40s.

 

[PB]

Yes. The new tree huggers have educated, spoiled trust fund members in their midst. When their 4 year degree isn't resource related, they have the $$ to go back to school and get a "Masters" in Forestry. Then they are truly experts. Where the old ones spiked trees or sat in them, and still do, the nuevo enviros go to court, and get tax money in the form of grants, to do so.
Yup, way more reasonable.

On a funnier note, what shall I call us tomorrow? An engineer, road crew guy and me, the forester are going out to set chokers, bump knots and rootwads and skid slide debris trees down a road. . I'm trying to decide which outfit to wear, the weather is hard to dress for right now --cold mornings then above freezing upper 40s.

I am getting my MS, so I have a trust fund? I wish I knew where to find it.

:monkey:

 

[Burvol]

I am getting my MS, so I have a trust fund? I wish I knew where to find it.

:monkey:

I think she was implying stuff out West. There are alot of trust funders out here, go to any of the small timber towns out here that are now recreation meccas and you'll find plenty. In terms of being funny, I guess we could say that owning 16 J-Reds is not a hall pass on being knowledgable in West Coast forestry and logging practices. :greenchainsaw:

 

[PB]

I think she was implying stuff out West. There are alot of trust funders out here, go to any of the small timber towns out here that are now recreation meccas and you'll find plenty. In terms of being funny, I guess we could say that owning 16 J-Reds is not a hall pass on being knowledgable in West Coast forestry and logging practices. :greenchainsaw:

Yeah, the Oregon hippies and the Maine hippies are completely different. Here the hippies are all about using what is in the earth, not this we are raping the earth stuff you have out there.

I know nothing about west coast logging. LOL! I do have a Pioneer P60 with a full wrap handle if that counts! Even a long bar.

Hardwood logging is what I was raised on and paid for my parents house and my food growing up. Skidders and tri-axle log trucks.

Up here in Maine is mostly pulp wood with harvesters. Some of University forests have some beautiful trees though. If you think there aren't any big conifers on the east you need to come out and see. PA especially has big trees, it used to have the largest tree east of the Mississippi. Might still be the largest.

 

[Burvol]

Yeah, the Oregon hippies and the Maine hippies are completely different. Here the hippies are all about using what is in the earth, not this we are raping the earth stuff you have out there.

I know nothing about west coast logging. LOL! I do have a Pioneer P60 with a full wrap handle if that counts! Even a long bar.

Hardwood logging is what I was raised on and paid for my parents house and my food growing up. Skidders and tri-axle log trucks.

Up here in Maine is mostly pulp wood with harvesters. Some of University forests have some beautiful trees though. If you think there aren't any big conifers on the east you need to come out and see. PA especially has big trees, it used to have the largest tree east of the Mississippi. Might still be the largest.

OK, a big Pioneer with a long bar, that counts

 

[treejunkie13]

Yeah, the Oregon hippies and the Maine hippies are completely different. Here the hippies are all about using what is in the earth, not this we are raping the earth stuff you have out there.

I know nothing about west coast logging. LOL! I do have a Pioneer P60 with a full wrap handle if that counts! Even a long bar.

Hardwood logging is what I was raised on and paid for my parents house and my food growing up. Skidders and tri-axle log trucks.

Up here in Maine is mostly pulp wood with harvesters. Some of University forests have some beautiful trees though. If you think there aren't any big conifers on the east you need to come out and see. PA especially has big trees, it used to have the largest tree east of the Mississippi. Might still be the largest.

Well said!
The tree you speak of, is that in Cook's Forest?

 

[PB]

Well said!
The tree you speak of, is that in Cook's Forest?

Yep the Longfellow pine! I love that area of PA.

 

[treejunkie13]

Yep the Longfellow pine! I love that area of PA.

I would love to put a saw to that area of PA
just kiddin' hippies!

 

[slowp]

I think she was implying stuff out West. There are alot of trust funders out here, go to any of the small timber towns out here that are now recreation meccas and you'll find plenty. In terms of being funny, I guess we could say that owning 16 J-Reds is not a hall pass on being knowledgable in West Coast forestry and logging practices. :greenchainsaw:

And if you get an MS or PHD in Forestry or some resource related field, you know everything there is about those subjects. No need to have worked in the woods, reading and writing papers will do.
I'd say I'm sorry but I'm not. I've seen too much.