Octane question

[Lightning Performance]

So is it unwise or safe to use Avgas LL or what?

Jury is still out. Now find one person who runs it, I know two, then ask in twenty more years how it worked out. They are too young to be exposed to lead paint so it must be AV gas poison at that point. Look me up in twenty years and I'll ask John how it went. He has fifteen years worth airplane gas run through chainsaws now.

 

[Lightning Performance]

My wife switch to lead free glazes at her pottery store about twenty years ago to quell the public outcry about lead in eating utensils like plates and bowls. Does it absorb into your food? We don't know because every other report contradicted the next. We finally found a lead free glaze, and reds, that flow nicely without lead. If you need some minerals I'm about to replace the 16yr old vent pipes at this location and I'm sure they will be packed with brown dust from minerals carried up into them. Fun day coming up no doubt but at least no lead will be involved. I could see the lead deposits in very old kilns I used to service that were put in use about 1958 for CHPS. Zola had them moved to her basement in the 1970s and they are still in use today. I rebuilt those about twenty years ago. Simple electric ovens basically. Now there's a stretch ;-)
Are we there yet?....

 

[lone wolf]

My wife switch to lead free glazes at her pottery store about twenty years ago to quell the public outcry about lead in eating utensils like plates and bowls. Does it absorb into your food? We don't know because every other report contradicted the next. We finally found a lead free glaze, and reds, that flow nicely without lead. If you need some minerals I'm about to replace the 16yr old vent pipes at this location and I'm sure they will be packed with brown dust from minerals carried up into them. Fun day coming up no doubt but at least no lead will be involved. I could see the lead deposits in very old kilns I used to service that were put in use about 1958 for CHPS. Zola had them moved to her basement in the 1970s and they are still in use today. I rebuilt those about twenty years ago. Simple electric ovens basically. Now there's a stretch ;-)
Are we there yet?....

I can tell everyone and this from first hand experience . We have 3 horses that got lead poisoning from a made in China plumbing connection at the bottom of our outside water frost free hydrant that was used for the horses water.
We had tested the horses and it came back positive for lead and a good amount. Then we tested the water from that hydrant and it was positive for lead ,then I tested my well separately and no lead. Conclusive proof the lead came from the fitting and poisoned the horses.

 

[Mad Professor]

I can tell everyone one this from first hand experience . We have 3 horses that got lead poisoning from a made in China pluming connection at the bottom of our outside water frost free hydrant that was used for the horses water.
We had tested the horses and it came back positive for lead and a good amount. Then we tested the water from that hydrant and it was positive for lead ,then I tested my well separately and no lead. Conclusive proof the lead came from the fitting and poisoned the horses.

Old plumbing will have lead solder. If the system has not been used in a while best to run the water/flush the pipes.

Concerning the 100LL, I use it in my saws but I'm not cutting often. If I'm cutting all week or milling I'll use 93 E-free, then flush that out with 100LL when I'm done.

Main reasons I use 100LL is it don't screw with rubber parts or carbs and stores about forever. A saw can sit for a year then start right up.

 

[lone wolf]

Old plumbing will have lead solder. If the system has not been used in a while best to run the water/flush the pipes.

Concerning the 100LL, I use it in my saws but I'm not cutting often. If I'm cutting all week or milling I'll use 93 E-free, then flush that out with 100LL when I'm done.

Main reasons I use 100LL is it don't screw with rubber parts or carbs and stores about forever. A saw can sit for a year then start right up.

I want to use it for all your reasons but I dont like the idea of the lead.

 

[sean donato]

If your that worried about long term storage any alkyd fuel will store long term. No reason to buy leaded fuel. Tru fuel, vp canned fuel the list is exhaustive. Rather buy regular fuel and purge with canned fuel then mess with leaded fuels. Shouldn't be too long till unleaded Ave gas becomes more widely available so it will become a moot point after a few years anyway.

 

[bwalker]

Well, there are several papers by ATDSR that address the issue. In particular most of the lead load in American children is sourced from old paint. (Or was, I haven't kept up... as the amount of exposed lead-based paint declines over time, I would expect the contribution to decline.
Note, I am not saying that lead exposure is innocuous. But the path to absorption by humans is more complicated and most of it takes place through the food chain.

That may be true now that leaded fuel has been phase dout from automotive use.
However, make no mistake that organic lead and inorganic lead are both absorbed by your body through breathing them into your lungs. And operating a piece of hand held two cycle equipment exposes you to both.

 

[bwalker]

If your that worried about long term storage any alkyd fuel will store long term. No reason to buy leaded fuel. Tru fuel, vp canned fuel the list is exhaustive. Rather buy regular fuel and purge with canned fuel then mess with leaded fuels. Shouldn't be too long till unleaded Ave gas becomes more widely available so it will become a moot point after a few years anyway.

That's my opinion too.

 

[bwalker]

Jury is still out. Now find one person who runs it, I know two, then ask in twenty more years how it worked out. They are too young to be exposed to lead paint so it must be AV gas poison at that point. Look me up in twenty years and I'll ask John how it went. He has fifteen years worth airplane gas run through chainsaws now.

No, the jury is not still out. It's a bad idea, period.

 

[Lightning Performance]

I can tell everyone one this from first hand experience . We have 3 horses that got lead poisoning from a made in China pluming connection at the bottom of our outside water frost free hydrant that was used for the horses water.
We had tested the horses and it came back positive for lead and a good amount. Then we tested the water from that hydrant and it was positive for lead ,then I tested my well separately and no lead. Conclusive proof the lead came from the fitting and poisoned the horses.

And you type this while I sit here talking to my wife about all the lead in phone cases, phone covers and charger cords. Most countries could care less about what is in their exports, fact!
Sorry to hear it killed your animals boss. Good thing the house wasn't plumbed with it.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Now this leads somewhere for once. John is a truck driver and does trees very part time but has over a decade of aviation gasoline exposure at ground level for hours on end. Now I'm sure he stinks like mix as we all do if you run your saws fat and he does. In fact I've tuned several too fat per his requests and he runs 32-1 full synthetics in everything with that aviation fuel. Few stratos in his fleet of Stihl tools. I can think of two 362s he got very recently. 088 is slobbering pig so is the 460 I ported, lightly, for him a few years back. The last pair of ported light and the jacked-up 361s I tuned to my liking. 13K and they smell far better then is blubbering 88.
He had some serious health problems so odds are he has been tested for lead by now. If not he needs to be. Either way I can find out what his PPM is. In fact he should get tested again if they can be compared to see if his PPM went up or down. I don't think he would be exposed to lead as a truck driver because generally he turns his local on eighteen wheels and burning diesel out the stack pipe no sucking on saw fumes or garden tools daily.

You guys running aviation gas should be tested now and again. I only use it for high compression out boards engines or tool storage. Done sold all my other toys years ago or storage for street cars when needed. Sold all those too. I'm boring now and mill with pump E10 87 or 89. Summer vs winter. Gas stabilizer gives me super headaches so I don't use it in my running anything.

 

[Chevboy0167]

Bones mend... Full send...


https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuels/fuel/optima

 

[bwalker]

Now this leads somewhere for once. John is a truck driver and does trees very part time but has over a decade of aviation gasoline exposure at ground level for hours on end. Now I'm sure he stinks like mix as we all do if you run your saws fat and he does. In fact I've tuned several too fat per his requests and he runs 32-1 full synthetics in everything with that aviation fuel. Few stratos in his fleet of Stihl tools. I can think of two 362s he got very recently. 088 is slobbering pig so is the 460 I ported, lightly, for him a few years back. The last pair of ported light and the jacked-up 361s I tuned to my liking. 13K and they smell far better then is blubbering 88.
He had some serious health problems so odds are he has been tested for lead by now. If not he needs to be. Either way I can find out what his PPM is. In fact he should get tested again if they can be compared to see if his PPM went up or down. I don't think he would be exposed to lead as a truck driver because generally he turns his local on eighteen wheels and burning diesel out the stack pipe no sucking on saw fumes or garden tools daily.

You guys running aviation gas should be tested now and again. I only use it for high compression out boards engines or tool storage. Done sold all my other toys years ago or storage for street cars when needed. Sold all those too. I'm boring now and mill with pump E10 87 or 89. Summer vs winter. Gas stabilizer gives me super headaches so I don't use it in my running anything.

Lead in your blood is the least of your worries As its out of your blood with in 6 months and most ofnits gone in 30 days. From your blood it goes to and hides out in your bones for multiple decades. And it's not like you wake up one day with acute lead poisoning. It's the chronic degradation of your brain, eyes, organs, etc.

 

[bwalker]

And you type this while I sit here talking to my wife about all the lead in phone cases, phone covers and charger cords. Most countries could care less about what is in their exports, fact!
Sorry to hear it killed your animals boss. Good thing the house wasn't plumbed with it.

I'm not sure why lead would be in a plastic phone case or the wiring of the charging cord, but regardless neither are going to expose you to lead unless you decide to chew on them. It's not the same as combusting leaded fuel in hand held equipment and not close.

 

[thenne1713]

Not all two cycle oil reduces the octane rating. Some, like Honda HP2 contain components like cumene which boost octane.
The other thing to consider is that in a two cycle the only octane that counts is the octane rating of the mixture in the combustion chamber which provided the engine is up to operating twmp and running/tuned properly doesn't contain much if any oil. When pre mix enters a two cycle motor it flashes from a liquid droplet form to a vapor and deposits oil on the motors internals. The vapor then travels up to the combustion chamber where it can be combusted.

For giggles/ grins few years back, tried 50:1 in my 4-stroke weed wacker= wud barely run; drained and changed to 91, and all good; had not (previously) thought about the 2-stroke removing the oil from the MIX before combustion, but it sure makes sense..

 

[benelli7d]

The first experience I had with it was a Four Winns ski boat with a 4.3 Chevy V6 . The Marina claimed to be 89 , but I doubt it. When you finished pulling somebody and shut that engine off it would diesel seems like forever. I could put a can of 104 Octane booster in a tank and it would quit just like you flipped a switch.

Same with 87 octane non ethanol that they sell in Reidsville and my 27 HP Kohler on a zero turn. When you finished mowing you would have to let it cool down for a couple of minutes or it would diesel. 104 Octane booster would stop that instantly.

Of course it is cheaper to just go find some high test than to pay for that stuff.

But, it does work as intended.

First of all I don't know didly about 104+, never used it. Secondly, dieseling is a tune up problem not a combustion/compression problem. I've been a mechanic and race engine builder my whole life and I can fix any dieseling vehicle with a screwdriver! Too rich of a mixture in the idle circuit will cause dieseling on a hot engine or one with high compression. While 104+ has seemed to solve your problem, a screwdriver is a much more cost effective choice.

 

[ZeroJunk]

First of all I don't know didly about 104+, never used it. Secondly, dieseling is a tune up problem not a combustion/compression problem. I've been a mechanic and race engine builder my whole life and I can fix any dieseling vehicle with a screwdriver! Too rich of a mixture in the idle circuit will cause dieseling on a hot engine or one with high compression. While 104+ has seemed to solve your problem, a screwdriver is a much more cost effective choice.

Yeah, I have designed all the top secret nuclear powered anti gravity propulsion drives.

 

[benelli7d]

Yeah, I have designed all the top secret nuclear powered anti gravity propulsion drives.

I have no idea what that means. But good for you.

 

[bwalker]

First of all I don't know didly about 104+, never used it. Secondly, dieseling is a tune up problem not a combustion/compression problem. I've been a mechanic and race engine builder my whole life and I can fix any dieseling vehicle with a screwdriver! Too rich of a mixture in the idle circuit will cause dieseling on a hot engine or one with high compression. While 104+ has seemed to solve your problem, a screwdriver is a much more cost effective choice.

I was going to mention that, but got side tracked. What Zero is seeing is pretty ignition and when it's doing that at shutdown its caused by a rich mixture and a hot spot, which is typically the spark plug. A cooler heat range plug and the proper mixture solves that issue.
Octane doesn't help with pre ignition unless detonation is also present, which with stock motors it typically isn't

 

[lone wolf]

I'm not sure why lead would be in a plastic phone case or the wiring of the charging cord, but regardless neither are going to expose you to lead unless you decide to chew on them. It's not the same as combusting leaded fuel in hand held equipment and not close.

Well i'm convinced that LL Avgas ain't good to be around.