brenndatomu
Hey you woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!
Probably have to start with what it takes to heat your place now...then see if somebody here has, or had, a similar heat load in a similar climate
OWB shopping (kind of)
- Thread starter Mnwoodman
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
StihlFroling
Only the Best.....Type A
The most important and absolute best boiler is a PROPERLY DESIGNED AND INSTALLED boiler. This forum section is proof of how many poorly installed systems make for an unhappy and expensive experience. I would suggest a months worth of research, don't be the guy that just talks to a few dealers and or ends up buying from the closest cuz its convienent.
My personal rules, dealer has been in biz with same brand for a long time. Installer is licensed or shows up with a heat loss calculation and a radiant design plan. Not a picture of an example from a friggin brochure. Get it in writing that its sized correctly and guaranteed to work or no payment. Right now there are 7 threads on different forums about those Empyre boilers doing 2-4 hour burns and still not keeping temps up, from Arkansas to Ontario. Non of them are getting their issue resolved. That's a $10,000 plus waste of a huge investment.
When selecting underground supply lines you have only a few choices, logstor/urecon, central boiler brand, uponor, or DIY foam in trench. The rest just heat the earth. There's no such thing as magic bubble foil insulation.
Plenty of volume, or storage, or your gonna wish you had some. 150 gal minimum.
Then go read the calefi I idronics online book on OWB systems, this should give you a good start and of course just my half cents worth.
Also keep in mind indoor wood boilers , they don't have to be indoors. Wanna get started on a budget, buy a used Tarm 400 or 2000, they still fetch $2000 at 20-40 years old cuz they are really that good. Worst case you end up selling it for what you paid a year later if you don't like it.
My favorite OWB
1. P&M
2. Central
3. Don't have one.
Indoor
Tarm
Tarm Froling if money is no object
Effecta
Garn if you have the space
P&M indoor model
My personal rules, dealer has been in biz with same brand for a long time. Installer is licensed or shows up with a heat loss calculation and a radiant design plan. Not a picture of an example from a friggin brochure. Get it in writing that its sized correctly and guaranteed to work or no payment. Right now there are 7 threads on different forums about those Empyre boilers doing 2-4 hour burns and still not keeping temps up, from Arkansas to Ontario. Non of them are getting their issue resolved. That's a $10,000 plus waste of a huge investment.
When selecting underground supply lines you have only a few choices, logstor/urecon, central boiler brand, uponor, or DIY foam in trench. The rest just heat the earth. There's no such thing as magic bubble foil insulation.
Plenty of volume, or storage, or your gonna wish you had some. 150 gal minimum.
Then go read the calefi I idronics online book on OWB systems, this should give you a good start and of course just my half cents worth.
Also keep in mind indoor wood boilers , they don't have to be indoors. Wanna get started on a budget, buy a used Tarm 400 or 2000, they still fetch $2000 at 20-40 years old cuz they are really that good. Worst case you end up selling it for what you paid a year later if you don't like it.
My favorite OWB
1. P&M
2. Central
3. Don't have one.
Indoor
Tarm
Tarm Froling if money is no object
Effecta
Garn if you have the space
P&M indoor model
Cheesecutter
Addicted to ArboristSite
I will say ballpark 8-10 cords per year depending how far north you are. My 1st year I was told to cut twice as much as I figured I'd need for the winter and I'd be 1/2 done. I burn 13-17 cords heating 2 average insulted 60-100 year old farmhouses. To save labor I don't split anything under 6", halve rounds 7-12", and anything bigger gets split to the size of a 5 gallon pail. One thing to remember about the OWBs is the smaller you process your wood the more it will eat, and it takes FOREVER to load with normal size fire wood.(60-100 pieces)
Butch(OH)
Addicted to ArboristSite
We go through 10-13 cord of 3 year old split wood depending on the winter. Generally burn from Oct 1 to May 15. That is to heat our 3 bedroom home, domestic water and 24x24 shop. I expect that would drop 3-4 cords of we didnt heat the shop and a couple more for the water. Often I have heard of people comparing their old heat bill to the OWB. Make sure it is apples to apples. Most of the time I see a heat bill Vs cords of wood that not only the house and now the heat the house, shop plus water.
Butch(OH)
Addicted to ArboristSite
StihlFroling
Only the Best.....Type A
Mostly the gassers, actually it might be all gassers. 60 gal and a 120 gal units with the super small fire boxes. Regardless of how they work, most of them were sold a unit that put out way less than what the house called for. You know how it is when a dealer has to clear his inventory, but there was a reason they installed too small of a unit. There are more of different brands as well it's not just these.
Oh, yeah...
Not only do we save by not burning propane to heat the house, our electric bill went down by ~$60 per month because we're getting our water heated by the boiler. I figured a 5-year return on the cost of the installed boiler. We've since bought another saw and a Timberwolf (used) splitter, so have added two more years to that. However, with today's propane price of $2.30/gallon, we may shave off a year. My estimation was at $1.50/gallon for fuel. We also wouldn't heat the garage without the boiler; it's kept around 40-45 degrees F.
My neighbor has a tree service, so 'free' firewood is a mile and a half from my house. Or less, as he's dropped 4 dump-trailer loads at my place this winter.
Jon
Not only do we save by not burning propane to heat the house, our electric bill went down by ~$60 per month because we're getting our water heated by the boiler. I figured a 5-year return on the cost of the installed boiler. We've since bought another saw and a Timberwolf (used) splitter, so have added two more years to that. However, with today's propane price of $2.30/gallon, we may shave off a year. My estimation was at $1.50/gallon for fuel. We also wouldn't heat the garage without the boiler; it's kept around 40-45 degrees F.
My neighbor has a tree service, so 'free' firewood is a mile and a half from my house. Or less, as he's dropped 4 dump-trailer loads at my place this winter.
Jon
mainewoods
Addicted to ArboristSite
26 mpg - new sticker - studded snow tires - full working AC for summer cooling with the flick of a switch - quick disconnect for trips to the liquor store. $1995.75 + gas , delivered to your door. Duct work, duct tape and assembly instructions included.
ford tech
ArboristSite Lurker
I have a harty h2 and with my shop it is to small . I am going to buy a cb 6048 several people around me have them and they like them. I also like the heatmaster 10000 model w/ the bypass but I don't know how they hold up.
Owb can heat large buildings but You better love to cut firewood and have a massive amount on hand I've heard of some hardy owners burning a cord per week .( if you are buying it*) At 150-200$ a cord and a 10,000 $ total initial cost they begin to wonder where this savings is found . Some people foolishly call them free heat machines .. That's funny right there . I couldn't imagine going out and loading. / maintenance in a foot of snow in blizzards and burning through 10+ Full cords of wood to heat my house for a season but that's just me everyone had different needs and budget
mainewoods
Addicted to ArboristSite
They don't call them wood eaters for nothing.
I have a 3300 woodmaster here is what I don't like... No ash pan or grates for easier ash removal, I end up removing too much charcoal in my opinion. Also wish the fan would blow under the wood or grates. My dad has a hardy h2 when his fan is running it is like a forge inside the wood box. The air flow may be good with the woodmaster but don't notice cause it is in the door. I am starting research for my next stove, for my house we plan to build, will definitely go with radiant floor heat and an owb and depending on size an indoor wood stove. I looked at central boiler and if the dealer had called me back I might have gone with them. After going to some farm shows there aren't a whole lot of differences in stoves. Even the woodmaster 4400 has grates with an ash auger. I think like everyone else has said depends on dealer support
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Johnny Yooper
ArboristSite Operative
Absolutely Nuthin', they're in a class all their own!
But what's wrong with redheads?
The biggest thing of any owb using too much wood is non insulated waterlines, especially the ones with the lines sitting in water. I know I've been there.
An idiot installed my first boiler and I burned loads of wood in my H2, I installed my H4 (still installed by an idiot
) but at least it is done right and I don't burn near as much wood and I heat a 3400 square foot house and a 1500 foot shop.
Also I can't imagine a Hardy boiler overheating running a well dry.
An idiot installed my first boiler and I burned loads of wood in my H2, I installed my H4 (still installed by an idiot
) but at least it is done right and I don't burn near as much wood and I heat a 3400 square foot house and a 1500 foot shop.Also I can't imagine a Hardy boiler overheating running a well dry.
StihlFroling
Only the Best.....Type A
I've seen 10-12 cords a year by some OWB owners, switch right over to another boiler with different install and only use 4-6 cords.
How in the heck do those little indoor boilers heat twice the space with half the wood, and half the BTU output of those big OWB's?????
How in the heck do those little indoor boilers heat twice the space with half the wood, and half the BTU output of those big OWB's?????
Poston5
ArboristSite Operative
Yeah I thought the same thing on running the well dry, the auto fill line is 1/4 inch. It would have had to run for like 20 years.The biggest thing of any owb using too much wood is non insulated waterlines, especially the ones with the lines sitting in water. I know I've been there.
An idiot installed my first boiler and I burned loads of wood in my H2, I installed my H4 (still installed by an idiot
Also I can't imagine a Hardy boiler overheating running a well dry.
CBwoodheat
ArboristSite Lurker
Just trying to help
I've burned a Central Boiler year round for a few years now
To clean the ash on an ongoing basis push your shovel under the coals and shake the coals off until it's mostly ash in the shovel. I heat two houses ..two masonry only small apartments and a shop with my 6048 and this is the best way I've found
burned two full fireboxes in 24 hours when it was 0 to 10 degrees out lately
This is the first thread on OWB that I've read. Just got curious. We have a ground source heat pump that is fifteen years old. Installation in a new home then was about $10,000. We also use a Vermont Casting wood stove. House is 100% electric. We have burned less than three full cords this winter and payed $150. to $200. per month electric. In the summer we get AC from the heat pump as well. I simply do not see the 'savings' in burning 10 to 15 cords of wood a year unless your heating a large shop as well and are prohibited from using a free standing wood stove. If power goes out we still have wood stove heat provided we are here. If we leave for a week we don't need someone house sitting to keep a boiler going. Several customers bought wood from me that ran short, or did not have access to their wood piles because of snow, and paid $225. a cord for 16" Oak for their boilers. What is a cord, seven to fourteen days worth? They would have bought more but I sold out. I season two years, and they wanted what I have for next next fall. Another consideration would be if you have sell unexpectedly you may be limiting the buyer pool with an OWB. Sounds like a lot of work, not sure where the benefit is unless you run a tree service or have access to large quantities of wood. We enjoy the indoor wood stove. The draw back to that is sometimes it is to hot and we open a window.
Lots of different situations out there and there is not a one-size fits all solution. $10,000 for a heat pump system would pay for my OWB system 4 times over, maybe 5 including the cost of your wood stove (actually, I could replace the woodburner part 6-8 times if the rest of the system were reused.) My house is not ideally designed for a wood stove, but my property IS well suited for an OWB. No mess inside, no risk of fire inside, can burn wood species considered not worthy to others, etc.
They are definitely NOT for everyone, but I bet most guys who have them wouldn't trade them for anything. I'm glad you're happy with your set-up. By the way, OWB owners are not the only ones that seem to be running out of wood this season.
