Pioneer chainsaws

[fossil]

Looks pretty good to me. I have a cleaned upscored piston and a cleaned up cylinder that likey no one would buy id they looked that has 180 psi in comp.

I know this is primarily a collectors site and everyone wants perfect but you can get away with quite a bit and still have decent compression.

I wouldn't think twice about using that cylinder.

Lots of mixed reviews on those red barn pistons about wrist pin and bearing fit, piston crown height and other stuff as well as some good reviews but if there's no alternative what do you have to lose? I don't recall seeing any on a P4a piston.

The repair manual calls for 150 psi compression.

 

[Jasonrkba]

I used 150 grit. Not sure I want to go any rougher than that. I usually do 150, 220, red scotch brite. But this is the worst I've tried saving. I'll sand a little more tomorrow and start cleaning. I blew my chainsaw budget for the month. 5 saws this week and a big ebay order.

 

[fossil]

Sorry I forgot to ask. Is there such thing as a manual for either of these saws available? Also, is this beast automatic oiling? Thank you again.

Check in this link. You likely find something you can use. Most of those models in that family are very similar.

https://www.mediafire.com/?cxxmbm1tjs422

 

[Jasonrkba]

Well this is as good as its going to get.

 

[Jasonrkba]

You can see around some of the ports the chrome was starting to get thin so I stopped while I still could. It's hard to tell looking at this thing if it was straight gassed or a seal blew completely. During the break down I removed the clutch and noticed what looked like a small plastic washer behind it..... it was the lip of the seal that came completely off.

 

[ML12]

View attachment 737451
Well built saw too.
Next project is a HM, it's missing a starter and clutch. Would you Know if the clutch off a RA the same?

The quality of the castings on the older IELs is amazing. I restored an HM and HC a couple years ago. Runs pretty good. Get the carb kit through Sugar Creek Supplier (or Chainsawr)

 

[Jasonrkba]

Has anyone found an alternate to Pioneer seal #428746? It goes to the p41.

 

[Lou]

Has anyone found an alternate to Pioneer seal #428746? It goes to the p41.

I did a Google search for 507428746 and found quite a few.
When Poulan acquired Pioneer they prefaced all Pioneer part numbers with 507.
It looks like that seal was used in the 455 and others.
HTH
Lou
My thanks to Grande Dog (Bailey's) for this tidbit long, long ago.

 

[Hoggwood]

Grab some SKF 5606 double lip seals. They fit a 1" bore and 9/16" shaft. The work perfectly for the 428746.

Or, if you prefer National 472705 double lip.

 

[Jasonrkba]

Thank you guys.

 

[lil171]

Sorry for another silly question regarding my newly aquired Pioneer chainsaw. Despite the fact I do not know which exact model the saw is, this question is regarding the proper chain for my saw. It does have a 16" bar, Pioneer model number 474254, roller nose bar. The main question I have regarding it is can someone please tell me the correct drive link count for this saw, and as of now, I will assume it is a Pioneer P25, as it was the only one of the three model numbers that utilized a 3/8" chain according to the Oregon chain finder, and it showed a 60 drive link count. The two chains I was given with the saw were a 61 drive link and a 62 drive link. Using the 61 drive link chain, the adjuster is maxed right out to get it to work, making me think that it is supposed to be a 60 drive link chain. Also, is there a way to determine the proper chain pitch required by the sprocket installed, or is there markings anywhere on the sprocket? Just as a reminder, there was NO ID tag on the saw. Thank you.

 

[Lou]

Firing from the hip here...
1. If 61 drive links are too long 60 is probably the correct number.
2. Hold the bar nose up and temporarily install the 61 count chain in the groove. Carefully tension both sides of the chain (slightly) and slowly rotate it clockwise. If it doesn't ride up on the sprocket nose as it is rotated it is the same as your 61 link chain (probably 3/8 50 gauge). A local chainsaw store should be able to answer all questions if given your bar. If me I'd take the saw too just because it couldn't hurt.
Lou
Bar part numbers can be negated by swapping out a sprocket nose.

 

[lil171]

Thank you. I forgot to mention that it is a .058 chain by the numbers I gathered, but either way, I appreciate your help. I will get out my calipers tomorrow to verify this.

 

[lil171]

Sorry for all the probable simple questions, but I am new to this whole saw thing. Regarding determining the correct chain for my old Pioneer, I would also just like to hopefully clarify something that I just did. I looked online at both Pioneer 3/8" and Pioneer .325" sprockets for P25 and P26 saws. Would I be correct in assuming, by the pictures and descriptions I read, that a 3/8" chain uses a 7 tooth sprocket, and a .325" chain uses an 8 tooth sprocket? Thank you all again for your time and help.

 

[Lou]

You need someone with more knowledge than I possess but you can get and install 8 tooth sprockets for both size chains.
You might be able to cross the part number on the 61 link chain. If it didn't ride up when rotated on the bar nose that is the chain size. It sounds like you're already pretty sure the gauge is 58 that has no bearing on the size.
Look at the sides of your chain, and there is probably a part number there. That should cross to the size. try a Google search with that number and see what returns.
Given the age of your saw, I'd guess it's 3/8, but someone will come along that is far better informed than am I.
Patience grasshopper.
Lou
I've been blessed... Cutter supply is a local logger outlet and they are chainsaw experts.

 

[fossil]

Sorry for all the probable simple questions, but I am new to this whole saw thing. Regarding determining the correct chain for my old Pioneer, I would also just like to hopefully clarify something that I just did. I looked online at both Pioneer 3/8" and Pioneer .325" sprockets for P25 and P26 saws. Would I be correct in assuming, by the pictures and descriptions I read, that a 3/8" chain uses a 7 tooth sprocket, and a .325" chain uses an 8 tooth sprocket? Thank you all again for your time and help.

If the 3/8 61 DL chain you have rolls smoothly around the clutch sprocket the sprocket will be 3/8. If the sprocket was .325 it would roll around very roughly.

Make sure you get 3/8 and not Low Profile (LP) 3/8 chain

A .325 pitch chain would take 66 DL for a 16" bar.

I do have a 1074 model which is similar to your saw with .325 pitch clutch sprocket on it and it is an 8 tooth spur.

Like Lou says, it would be best to take the saw and bar to a shop and have them fit it up.

A close up pic from the side of the of the chain on it now

 

[lil171]

Ok. Just got in from work and had a few spare minutes. As per request, here are a few pictures. I hope they help. Also, my sprocket is an 8 tooth sprocket, and by looking, it has marks on it, making me now think that it is not original. Also to note, my calipers mark the chain at .056, so I am led to believe that it is .058 as it does fit the groove in the bar. When rolling the chain by hand, I can hear a slight 'clicking' as the chain rolls around the gear on the clutch. I do see that the clutch is slightly worn, but for the use the saw will see, should be good enough for me. By eyeballing, my calipers read .750 between 3 rivets on both chains, so I guess it is indeed a 3/8" chain. One chain, the one on the saw, is marked Pioneer (tie strap) 3-8 (on the drive link) with 58 below that, and the other is marked S-W (tie strap) 50 and 50A on alternating drive links. So, with this all said, I am also now thinking that this is supposed to be running a .325" chain. I will most definately have to take it in to a shop to verify it so I can get the proper chain, if indeed it is a .325. Thank you.

 

[fossil]

Ok. Just got in from work and had a few spare minutes. As per request, here are a few pictures. I hope they help. Also, my sprocket is an 8 tooth sprocket, and by looking, it has marks on it, making me now think that it is not original. Also to note, my calipers mark the chain at .056, so I am led to believe that it is .058 as it does fit the groove in the bar. When rolling the chain by hand, I can hear a slight 'clicking' as the chain rolls around the gear on the clutch. I do see that the clutch is slightly worn, but for the use the saw will see, should be good enough for me. By eyeballing, my calipers read .750 between 3 rivets on both chains, so I guess it is indeed a 3/8" chain. One chain, the one on the saw, is marked Pioneer (tie strap) 3-8 (on the drive link) with 58 below that, and the other is marked S-W (tie strap) 50 and 50A on alternating drive links. So, with this all said, I am also now thinking that this is supposed to be running a .325" chain. I will most definitely have to take it in to a shop to verify it so I can get the proper chain, if indeed it is a .325. Thank you.
View attachment 738826 View attachment 738827 View attachment 738828 View attachment 738829 View attachment 738830 View attachment 738831

It looks like the Sandvik - Windsor chain is .050 ga. The drive links for 50 ga start out as 58 ga at the chain factory and are ground down to 50 ga unless something has changed.

I think all the Pioneer bars of that era were 058 for the 3/8 chain. Not sure about the .325
063 is a different drive link

Since your bar is a roller nose chain pitch doesn't matter. It now depends solely on your clutch sprocket.

 

[lil171]

Great. Thank you. Now to do some more reading online to figure out which sprocket I have.... So to me it does now appear that the sprocket I have is for a .325 chain. Just to confirm this, I will be taking it for a ride to the city one day to a repair shop. With not having one, I will now have to keep my eyes peeled for one. Easier for me to find a chain than find a sprocket here. Thanks for all your help.

 

[Lou]

@ fossil; Just so I understand... There are no teeth on the nose of that bar? Similar to a solid nose?

@ lil171; If it were a sprocket nose (what I am accustomed to) the wrong pitch chain would actually rise and fall when the drive links didn't properly engage with the spikes of the rotating nose sprocket.
It should do the same to a lesser degree if a different pitch than the spur sprocket of the clutch.
My FarmSaw spur sprocket is in considerably worse shape than is yours... I guarantee it has never run the wrong pitch. My FarmSaw is now for emergency use only. I have both 20 and 24-inch bars that fit that saw, I won't swear they are the same gauge. She treated me well for many years. I purchased it new in 1979 without a chain break. My first saw was a 16 inch Skill... if I'd found a cliff in New Mexico it would have fallen to its death!!! One time the FarmSaw ignition failed me. A few hours in the oven @ 200° resurrected the coil.

Lou

Great. Thank you. Now to do some more reading online to figure out which sprocket I have... So to me, it does now appear that the sprocket I have is for a .325 chain. Just to confirm this, I will be taking it for a ride to the city one day to a repair shop. With not having one, I will now have to keep my eyes peeled for one. Easier for me to find a chain than find a sprocket here. Thanks for all your help.

I strongly suggest you invest the time and gasoline required to take the saw and bar to a local logger supply retailer. It will remove all doubt and you will almost certainly get the correct chain; pitch, gauge, and length.