Pioneer chainsaws

[WesternSaw]

Cleaning up a P20

Hi guys
My neighbour knows that I'm starting to get into this Pioneer thing of late so he was on a trip upcounry last weekend and in the metal scrap pile at the local dump is a P20 sitting there,it is in not great shape but some part's may be of use.I started to get the grime and dust off and thought I would take a lookbehind the flywheel.How do I hold the flywheel from turning while trying to get the flywheel nut off?I looked in my Pioneer manuals and all it mentions is the left hand threading.I know I need a puller once the nut is off .Please remember I am just starting with the saw mechanic thing.
Thanks Lawrence
P.S.l allready broke a flywheel fin off.Yikes!

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Hi guys
My neighbour knows that I'm starting to get into this Pioneer thing of late so he was on a trip upcountry last weekend and in the metal scrap pile at the local dump is a P20 sitting there,it is in not great shape but some part's may be of use.I started to get the grime and dust off and thought I would take a look behind the flywheel.How do I hold the flywheel from turning while trying to get the flywheel nut off?I looked in my Pioneer manuals and all it mentions is the left hand threading.I know I need a puller once the nut is off .Please remember I am just starting with the saw mechanic thing.
Thanks Lawrence
P.S.l already broke a flywheel fin off.Yikes!

Lawrence.
How I remove the fly wheel nut, is to get a piece of flat bar, run it through the front Handel, towards the rear handle of the saw. I then run the flat bar through the flywheel at the magnet side, and place a socket on the nut, and slide the bar just pact the socket that is on the nut. I then have the saw on the bench, and hold it down firmly, and loosen the nut.
Then I turn the nut off, until the end of the shaft disappears into the nut. I place a small pry bar behind the flywheel, and tap the flywheel nut with a hammer, while prying out on the flywheel. A few good, but not too hard taps with the hammer, will listen the flywheel. Remove the nut, and slide off the flywheel.
To remove the clutch, do the same thing with the flywheel, and lossen the clutch nut. I just use a hammer, and tap the back of the clutch hub, and it usually pops off. Bruce.

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Lawrence.
How I remove the fly wheel nut, is to get a piece of flat bar, run it through the front Handel, towards the rear handle of the saw. I then run the flat bar through the flywheel at the magnet side, and place a socket on the nut, and slide the bar just pact the socket that is on the nut. I then have the saw on the bench, and hold it down firmly, and loosen the nut.
Then I turn the nut off, until the end of the shaft disappears into the nut. I place a small pry bar behind the flywheel, and tap the flywheel nut with a hammer, while prying out on the flywheel. A few good, but not too hard taps with the hammer, will listen the flywheel. Remove the nut, and slide off the flywheel.
To remove the clutch, do the same thing with the flywheel, and lossen the clutch nut. I just use a hammer, and tap the back of the clutch hub, and it usually pops off. Bruce.

Hey Jerry.
I can even give advice on these green outfits too. LOL!!
Bruce.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I had a Holiday at one time, mine was white if I remember right, and not the usual pioneer green. It reminded me of a Homie XL-12. It would make your ears bleed even with plugs in. Keep the picture coming,, I do enjoy them, Thanks

Yes I have a white one with red trim,will post picts of this one also,I can`t hear you. LOL PIONEERGUY600

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hi guys
My neighbour knows that I'm starting to get into this Pioneer thing of late so he was on a trip upcounry last weekend and in the metal scrap pile at the local dump is a P20 sitting there,it is in not great shape but some part's may be of use.I started to get the grime and dust off and thought I would take a lookbehind the flywheel.How do I hold the flywheel from turning while trying to get the flywheel nut off?I looked in my Pioneer manuals and all it mentions is the left hand threading.I know I need a puller once the nut is off .Please remember I am just starting with the saw mechanic thing.
Thanks Lawrence
P.S.l allready broke a flywheel fin off.Yikes!

To get the flywheel nut and the clutch nut off I use a battery powered nut driver,used to use air powered impact 3/8" drive type and they come off easily.They break the nut free quickly as long as you know what direction the come off in.The steady pressure used on a socket wrench of any type is harder to get the nuts broke free and its hard to hold the flywheel. With the impact wrench you can hold the flywheel with one hand and operate the impact wrench with the other. I will post a pict of the one I use now and would not be without one in the shop now, actually have two of them. Bought the two of them at CDN. Tire two years ago and would be lost without them. Use them to drill,run screws,nuts and break nuts free and reset them again, a very usefull tool indeed.
Pioneerguy600

 

[pioneerguy600]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/Myersv/SISxfJru7jI/AAAAAAAAAwg/UhtbsPGFI2o/IMG_2007.jpg?im
gmax=512

These impact drivers can be used for a good many chores,here running a bearing puller removing bearings from a Stihl 044 crank. Pioneerguy600

 

[pioneerguy600]

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hey Jerry.
I can even give advice on these green outfits too. LOL!!
Bruce.

Bruce; Always appreciate your input and advice on any subject discussed on this site. Pioneerguy600

 

[propliner]

Flywheel removal

To remove the flywheel nut, I use a rubber coated aluminum rod that fits inside the spark plug hole and stops the piston near the top of the stroke. Pioneer made a tool that worked this way too. As far as the puller goes, I use a small universal puller but had to cut some threads into a couple of bolts to fit into the flywheel. They are 12-24 thread. In the service manual it states that you can also pry the flywheel near the top at the same time that you are pulling. You can reuse the nut but I find it helps to pound the nut on its side to put a slight out-of round into it, making it tight again. For the clutch driver, I use the tightening tool from my angle grinder... fits perfectly.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Yes I use customized pullers for the component removal, a common steering wheel puller will remove the flywheel if you have long enough machine screws,12 by 24 thread but they have to be about three inches long to work with the standard puller.The mini grinder wrench will hold a clutch but if you use a impact driver you can hold it with one hand and the driver will remove the nut easily. Pioneerguy600

 

[belgian]

Hi Jerry, really enjoying your pics and tool tips !!
this becomes a superb thread

Keep 'em coming !opcorn:

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hi Jerry, really enjoying your pics and tool tips !!
this becomes a superb thread

Keep 'em coming !opcorn:

Hi Roland.; Thanks for the encouragement,glad you enjoy the picts of the old Pioneers, let us know if you get your bits. Also enjoy your posts on any make of saws, really like the old Contras as they were the first Stihl saws I ever used.
Pioneerguy600

 

[pioneerguy600]

This is picts of an old NU 17 that was found abandoned at an old logging camp along with a model 450. They both have required extensive mechanical restoration and just before taking picts of it yesterday we added a new coil,cleaned and set the points and replaced the condenser with a NOS one. A squirt of mix in the carb and two pulls later it roared to life for the first time in over thirty years, it was last run around 1966 or 67 according to the son of the original owner. Now it will go on a long list of saws requiring painting. Parts have been sourced out from all over North America for this one,Thanks to Propliner, K D Hotwheels, Jeff Sloan, and Tom Coker.
POINEERGUY600

 

[WesternSaw]

I'm Amazed

ThankYou Fellas!
To Bruce Hopf,Pioneerguy600 and Propliner.It is a good feeling when you ask questions of something you know little about,and get honest answers.Heavy on the NO attitudes.Thanks for the tool info and methods advice.The tool photos are a nice touch Pioneerguy.Jerry for someone who did not post pics you have become a pic Guru of sorts.I will let you fellas know how I make out with my first flywheel pull.
Lawrence

 

[pioneerguy600]

ThankYou Fellas!
To Bruce Hopf,Pioneerguy600 and Propliner.It is a good feeling when you ask questions of something you know little about,and get honest answers.Heavy on the NO attitudes.Thanks for the tool info and methods advice.The tool photos are a nice touch Pioneerguy.Jerry for someone who did not post pics you have become a pic Guru of sorts.I will let you fellas know how I make out with my first flywheel pull.
Lawrence

Thanks for the boost Lawrence,let us know how the pull goes and what you used to accomplish the deed. Pioneerguy600

 

[propliner]

Once the flywheel is pulled and the oil pump removed, changing the crankshaft seals is a piece of cake. The seals are still readily available. It's something I always do on a saw with unknown history when pulling the flywheel since I'm already there anyways. Have fun and good luck!
Propliner.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Pioneer Farm saw, has wicked compression, I just replaced all the recoil parts in this saw and it starts and runs great, it needs a new compression release and has a different bar and chain on it now and has cut up some wood with nearly a tank of gas run through it.
Pioneerguy600

 

[WesternSaw]

This is Strange!

Okay I went to take the flyweel nut off and noticed something wierd, I mean I think it's wierd.I don't know what's what now.There is no oil hose coming from the crankcase to deliver oil on to the chain,not even a hole where it should be,nor a hole for the hose leaving to go to the chain.I checked the IPL for the P20 and can not find a hose in there either .I have to tell you a Sherlock Holmes I'm not.Please set me straight on this.No wonder it was in the scrap pile.Aggh!

 

[propliner]

If you are looking for the oiler on the flywheel side, it's the wrong side. On the P20 the oiler pump is located on the bar side. To access it, remove the bar cover and clutch. You'll see another small cover which also encompasses the driveshaft. This is the oil pump cover. It's held on by two screws. Remove the screws and cover and it will reveal the oil pump housing and shaft with plastic gear and three rubber grommets. The housing and shaft can be plucked out easily. The grommets hold the housing in place. It's a very simple system and can be disassembled and reassembled with ease.

The vent hole for the oil tank is actually located underneath the front handle on that side. It's tiny and is hard to spot. You can clean it out with a pin. If your oil pump leaks you may need to replace the pump housing or the three grommets. Also check that the gear is in good shape on the pump shaft. When reinstalling, make sure the shaft and housing fit in easily. They should never need to be forced.

To sum up the operation, there are no hoses for the oil pump. Oil flows out of the tank at a low point and into the pump itself. From there it is pumped out the other side and out of the pump cover and into the bar. It has to flow through two rubber grommets to get through so if there is a leak it's an easy place to start and these grommets are usually the culprit.

Hope this helps.
-Propliner.

 

[WesternSaw]

Hmmmm!

Thanks for the info Propliner. I was aware that the oil pump was not on the flywheel side,I originally wanted the flywheel off to clean all the sawdust and dirt from behind it.It was only when I was looking down at the top side underneath the air filter cover in that little compartment ahead of the carb that I only noticed the fuel line and no other lines.On the P25 I have there is also a oil line coming up and out that compartment to the bar. The reason I thought the absence of an oil line was strange because I thought the P25 and P20 were similar saws as well as the 1073 which I also have and has an oil line.Am I making any sense,or am I really out there?As you know i am a rookie at this.If you have anything to add to my situation please feel free to straighten me out.