Pool of water in Oak, suggestions please

[Cuda]

I have a nice Oak in my front yard, it's got a main trunk that splits into 3 large branches, in the middle it tends to collect leaves and water and stays wet all the time so all this black gunk grows on the tree, today I went and cleaned out the leaves and flushed all the goo out of it, now I was wondering if this is going to damage the tree and if so what can I do to help the tree, can the cavity be filled with something, or could I drill a drain hole in it? It's not rotten yet but I'm afraid it will be. Any advice would be appreciated. I included a few pictures, Thanks

 

[sawyerDave]

water trap

Whatever you decide to do, DO NOT FILL WITH CEMENT, or anything harder than wood. If you want to eliminate the mosquito pool, I would suggest that you fill with Great Stuff, expanding foam insulation product, about $5-7per big can, will last 3-5 years, till the sun degrades it, and the tree grows enough to displace it. The good news is that it won't harm the tree and is soft enough that it won't hurt a saw if you ever take the tree down. There may be other products that would work the same way.

 

[lxt]

Looks like an included bark section, Ive ran across these, just did an Ash that was similar however the situation was about 30ft up, this can be a problem, freeze/thaw over time will no doubt lead to failure at least from my Exp.

Many will give you different suggestions, but honestly it would be best to look at it, A support system installed & rain cap/fill that will not let water in might help!!

LXT..........

 

[suprherosndwch]

Right now the wood in the tree cavity is saturated. This creates a situation where most decomposing agents cannot live. It is so wet, there is no available oxygen for them to survive. If you poke a hole in it to drain it, you are going to cause two problems. First you will be making a pathway along the drilled out hole for those decompose rs to spread through more of the trees sound wood. Second, you might remove enough moisture that those decomposers can survive. Keep in mind, even if you drained it, the tree is still actively taking water up from the roots. If you remove the puddle of water that is drowning the decomposers, the tree will keep the wood just wet enough for them to do their dirty work. Both previous suggestions are good. If mosquitoes are a problem, filling the tree with something like foam to stop them shouldn't't hurt or help the tree, just maybe help with the bugs. But the bracing suggestion is probably something you should mostly think about if there is a chance that when this tree splits and falls, (it might be tomorrow, or it might be 50 years from now, who knows, but eventually it will), is it going to hit something important. Thanks for the question.

 

[Cuda]

Thanks for the replys, I might get some of the foam stuff, and what would be a good way to clean up the outside of the tree where all the black and green slime is? This is the first thing seen when you drive into my yard and I'd like to clean the tree, I tried a garden hose but it didn't do much, it's stuck on too well.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

How about a SAND BLASTER?



Seriously though, get rid of the water and the moss will go away.




.

 

[sawyerDave]

Getting rid of moss

If you cure the water problem, as posted above, eventually the moss will die on its own, but if you are in a hurry, you could put a half cup of bleach in a gallon of water, and scrub with a stiff bristle brush, till it comes off. What to tell the neighbors that you are doing, should they ask, is up to you.

 

[treeseer]

If you cure the water problem, as posted above, eventually the moss will die on its own, but if you are in a hurry, you could put a half cup of bleach in a gallon of water, and scrub with a stiff bristle brush, till it comes off. What to tell the neighbors that you are doing, should they ask, is up to you.

Yes good to just scrub it off but NO on the bleach, that would apply a lot of chlorine on the roots. If the brush does not get it all, a little hydrogen peroxide may help.

If you take a picture of the other side we can talk about support systems; does not look like a major defect or a major target from here.

Foam can be uglier than moss imo. Water is not a bad thing. I do like you did and just clean it occasionally, being careful not to damage the bark.

Not much freeze/thaw risk in AL, right?

 

[lxt]

Not much freeze/thaw risk in AL, right?

Maybe!! Im sure the folks in Florida didnt expect frost either uhh?

With all the abnormal weather patterns one doesnt know whats gonna hit their area!! water in that inclusion a cold night & a little wind......well need I say more!!

Foam once it cures is ugly.....but you can shave it to a desired shape!! do this all the time!! Then paint with a wound dressing or other non toxic color spray!!


LXT...............

 

[Cuda]

Not much freeze/thaw risk in AL, right?

Yeah, not much, seldom gets cold long enough for long enough to freeze anything solid, but every once in a while it does.

 

[Urbicide]

If that tree is struck by lightning it will explode. The standing water will be turned into steam instantly by the heat of the lightning strike. It would (the steam) expand in volume many times over and literally the tree will be blasted into splinters. I know a lightning strike is hard enough on a tree itself, water in a tree is like gun powder.

 

[treeseer]

If that tree is struck by lightning it will explode. The standing water will be turned into steam instantly by the heat of the lightning strike. It would (the steam) expand in volume many times over and literally the tree will be blasted into splinters. I know a lightning strike is hard enough on a tree itself, water in a tree is like gun powder.

Hmm, interesting theory. I'm wondering if most of the expansion would be upward, since that is the path of least resistance.

 

[appalachianarbo]

Just do as treeseer said and clean it once in a while without damaging anything in the process. Trees do a remarkable job of taking care of themselves.

Don't worry about freezing or lightning strikes (or meteors, or rabid monkeys. etc. etc.). If a freeze were to hit, the ice would expand upward out of the hole and not cause any damage. Same with steam expansion. It would exit out of the top of the hole, not into the wood of the tree. Yeah, lightning may splinter your tree, but lightning can splinter any tree. Simple physics, folks.

Is there a target under either side of the tree that we can't see?

 

[lxt]

Just do as treeseer said and clean it once in a while without damaging anything in the process. Trees do a remarkable job of taking care of themselves.

Don't worry about freezing or lightning strikes (or meteors, or rabid monkeys. etc. etc.). If a freeze were to hit, the ice would expand upward out of the hole and not cause any damage.

I have to disagree with both statements!! If trees did a "remarkable" job at taking care of themselves then cleaning it out would not be needed, for that fact if trees really dont need any thing done to them then I guess were all in biz for nothing


Ill have to remember the Ice expanding out of the hole!! LOL.. due to the fact I live in a region of severe freeze/thaw & have inspected & personally viewed trees that were split in half from such!! truth is these cavities have pockets in them & the ice gauges away more each time spreading the inclusion open untill failure results!!

I would have an Arborist inspect the tree & go from there!! unless you wish to clean this trees crack out every other week if not more often.....but then again "Trees take care of themselves....remarkable" I dont know about about rabid monkeys.....maybe the poster of such has better insight on the animal kingdom rather than the plant kingdom???

good luck & hope you find out what you need!!


LXT.................

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I call BS on the freeze thaw theory. I see lots of trees that have puddles like that for many, many years. Could it happen, I suppose. It's not enough of a risk to take action.

You live in the country. You need to accept the natural beauty that surrounds you.

The tree looks natural and beautiful to me. The moss is cool, I'd like to be able to get it to grow more on my trees.

I'd be tempted to throw some dirt in the hole and plant a fern, some vines, or something. That would be really unique, a tree some flowers and vines, along with the moss, Awesome!

 

[appalachianarbo]

If trees did a "remarkable" job at taking care of themselves then cleaning it out would not be needed

It's not needed. The tree will do fine on its own. The only reason for cleaning is to remove stuff that the homeowner finds unsightly.

If trees really dont need any thing done to them then I guess were all in biz for nothing

How many trees out there live and die without any human intervention? Millions. We are only in business because humans want stuff done to their trees.

I'll have to remember the Ice expanding out of the hole!! LOL.. due to the fact I live in a region of severe freeze/thaw & have inspected & personally viewed trees that were split in half from such!! truth is these cavities have pockets in them & the ice gauges away more each time spreading the inclusion open untill failure results!!

The only way damage would be caused is if the pocket was completely sealed. Put a bowl of water in your freezer. As it freezes, the ice expands up and over the edge of the bowl. The bowl doesn't break. Now if you filled a sealed bottle and froze it, yes, it would break. This tree's cavity is not sealed, however. The inclusions you've 'inspected' are likely failing because of wind, snow load, increased lateral pressure from growing stems, etc.

I dont know about about rabid monkeys.....maybe the poster of such has better insight on the animal kingdom rather than the plant kingdom???

My point is that this tree failing because of steam explosions and ice expansion is about as likely as it failing from a meteor or rabid monkeys. You're welcome to speculate all day long on the origins and value of my insight. Just don't bother me with it.

And lxt, I could use those stupid little eye rolling guys on all of my above points too. I just don't.

 

[lxt]

I call BS on the freeze thaw theory. I see lots of trees that have puddles like that for many, many years. Could it happen, I suppose. It's not enough of a risk to take action.

Maybe in his part of the country you can call BS on freeze/thaw, where Im from & many farther east wouldnt call it BS, happens alot!! might not be common for him!! Included bark does pose safety hazards & with what is shown in the provided pic`s that partial cavity with water will do nothing but become a bigger wishing well!! & the owner will be wishing he did something to prevent the inevitable!!

I know what I would do if it was my tree & just gave my opinion, do as you wish it wont affect me!! Hopefully nothing happens & it lives longer than us!!

LXT............

 

[Cuda]

You live in the country. You need to accept the natural beauty that surrounds you.

The tree looks natural and beautiful to me. The moss is cool, I'd like to be able to get it to grow more on my trees.

I'd be tempted to throw some dirt in the hole and plant a fern, some vines, or something. That would be really unique, a tree some flowers and vines, along with the moss, Awesome!

I never thought of that, might be cool looking, but how would it be for the tree?

 

[lxt]

It's not needed. The tree will do fine on its own. The only reason for cleaning is to remove stuff that the homeowner finds unsightly.


How many trees out there live and die without any human intervention? Millions. We are only in business because humans want stuff done to their trees.



The only way damage would be caused is if the pocket was completely sealed. Put a bowl of water in your freezer. As it freezes, the ice expands up and over the edge of the bowl. The bowl doesn't break. Now if you filled a sealed bottle and froze it, yes, it would break. This tree's cavity is not sealed, however. The inclusions you've 'inspected' are likely failing because of wind, snow load, increased lateral pressure from growing stems, etc.



My point is that this tree failing because of steam explosions and ice expansion is about as likely as it failing from a meteor or rabid monkeys. You're welcome to speculate all day long on the origins and value of my insight. Just don't bother me with it.

And lxt, I could use those stupid little eye rolling guys on all of my above points too. I just don't.

Unsightly yes!! He also was concerned about that area too, right ? how many trees have you worked on that have failed that started out with a defect like what is shown here?

If you say none, good for you!! but I have almost as many years at this as you are old sprout!! I have seen what happens when something is let go & the damage it can cause!! why let this tree be another statistic?

I thought we were in this biz to care for trees, Not because "humans want stuff done" & you`re a CA....... you better re-read what the role of an Arborist is & what the reasons for tree care are!!

And wrong about the pocket being completely sealed (for you) the cavity of a tree is not like a bowl of water on a freezer (2-this time) Tree cavities have vains & pockets & debris within these areas...ever see frozen water/mud.........I would suggest you go to the tree video forum & look at my post called Genie in action..........Look close at the first Pic!!

That red maple had an inclusion, above the tear was a darker area where the same type of pocket as mentioned in this post was!! just higher up!! when that section failed there was fozen expanded water,dirt/mud,leaves...you name it which expanded the cavity to failure!! We inspected the failed section to find several veins & smaller cavities with frozen debris intact & buldging out, this along with wind we beleive is what caused the failure!!

No its not snow load or increased lateral pressure, it can be in some cases, but not the case I refered you to!! It was.......inclusion with water & other debris frozen to form an expanding "solid" wedge with the help of possible wind conditions to aide in the failure!!

Ya see its not just water that freezes in these type of areas, so your soup bowl theory might work in some cases but not all!!

LXT................

 

[fireman]

freezing

lxt we looked at a tree that had the same pocket of water.we told the home owner to fill with great stuff before winter and remove all water out of the tree.he didn't do it.I got a call saying the tree was splitting we went out and looked at it i told him it was going to get worse.he didn't want anything done with tree.now the tree split in half and just missed the house.you could see the ice through out the split.the water expanded and split the wood right in the crotch i will try to get some pics up if i can get out there.