james archibald
ArboristSite Lurker
Congratulations, you have as much money into your chink POS as a knocked around 262 or 272.
Porting a Chinese G621 Clone
- Thread starter Chris-PA
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Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Perhaps a severely knocked around one, for just the saw as a starting point. I didn't want another used saw.
naturelover
Tree Freak
Haven't killed the Quake yet.... 
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Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
Sorry to take the bait here and derail the thread.
There is free trade and there is fair trade. You can control what you purchace and advise others to purchace. What we have here most likely involves patent infringement and as Chris has stated it doesn't carry the cost of getting epa certified.
I find this thread superior to buying and selling tactics on craig's list and a number of other common themes on here.
I find the pie chart in post 50 informative and will save it to file to try and figure out what other discussiions on here mean. Since this one is not epa certified perhaps it isn't legally improper to modify it.
Fran
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
This particular manufacturer (which I believe is Zhongjian Tools) makes various versions of older Zenoah designs, including the Earthquake which is sold through many large US retailers. I do not know what the relationship, if any, was between the two companies. However, Zenoah did have versions of the GZ400 built in China, so it is quite possible the manufacture of the older designs is legitimate. It is not uncommon for a company to sell the rights to older designs. It seems unlikely that major US companies would sell pirated products as that would be a large liability.
Clearly it is not legit to sell this non-EPA approved product here, although in that regard the end result is no different than a ported saw of any type.
spike60
Addicted to ArboristSite
Interesting and informative Chris, and thanks for sharing a closer look. But I really gotta take a couple shots at this saw. (not at you)
Guys are talking about the timing numbers here, but I'm thinking about the financial numbers. $210 to the door is really not that great of a deal for something of such dubious origin. And you've already identified so many flaws in it's brief stay that words like crap and junk are not unjustified. Right on the heals of that $210 are some costs that the typical buyer would quickly face. The hokey bar and chain will not last long, assuming the saw runs long enough to wear them out. Figure another $50 right there. The top cover wouldn't stay on, the air filter won't seal, the saw stopped oiling, the carb is suspect, and the bar and chain are borderline useless. And all for just $210. Call now, operators are standing by! Did someone say junk? Where would Joe Consumer go to get that torn oil line? The average person would not be able, or even inclined to do all the alterations that you did to make this saw somewhat usable. They would feel totally screwed and that's exactly how they should feel. The average yard sale saw wouldn't have that many issues.
All that talk of trying different, (and real), carbs is interesting from hobby/curiosity standpoint, but again, $210 for the "raw materials" for this project seems out of line for what you get. There are so many used saws that could be had for much less money, that would yield much better results.
Guys are talking about the timing numbers here, but I'm thinking about the financial numbers. $210 to the door is really not that great of a deal for something of such dubious origin. And you've already identified so many flaws in it's brief stay that words like crap and junk are not unjustified. Right on the heals of that $210 are some costs that the typical buyer would quickly face. The hokey bar and chain will not last long, assuming the saw runs long enough to wear them out. Figure another $50 right there. The top cover wouldn't stay on, the air filter won't seal, the saw stopped oiling, the carb is suspect, and the bar and chain are borderline useless. And all for just $210. Call now, operators are standing by! Did someone say junk? Where would Joe Consumer go to get that torn oil line? The average person would not be able, or even inclined to do all the alterations that you did to make this saw somewhat usable. They would feel totally screwed and that's exactly how they should feel. The average yard sale saw wouldn't have that many issues.
All that talk of trying different, (and real), carbs is interesting from hobby/curiosity standpoint, but again, $210 for the "raw materials" for this project seems out of line for what you get. There are so many used saws that could be had for much less money, that would yield much better results.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
One of the reasons I did this was to see what the situation really was. I don't disagree with your comments in principal, but you've overplayed it a little bit as the only actual failure was the oil pump line. The carb is fine - I've seen much worse quality with a Walbro name on it, and I am only considering replacing it because it seemed small (but it is the same size as on a 262). The top cover stayed on fine but did not align well, so I didn't need to fix that but it bugged me.
The bar and chain are junk, and I did do significant repair to the bar, but I'm going to run them to see how they last. I dunno how the bar would have worked as-is. There's a 24" Power Match bar and a loop of square ground hanging in the barn so I don't personally care if the B&C are crap.
The air filter would not have sealed very well as delivered. Ever read any comments bout people having to put grease around the filters of their name brand saws filters to get them to seal? It's a little bit worse than that but was not hard to fix.
But as I said, if someone bought this to use as-is with no skills they would have made a mistake, I have no doubt about that. For one of us it's a fun saw kit and putting it together right only took a couple of hours of easy and enjoyable work. It's exactly the winter project I was looking for to distract from cabin fever. Given my experience with the Earthquake and looking at the mechanical construction I am really not much concerned about it grenading. I still have not spent any more than $210 and I now have quite a nice saw, as it is a copy of a very nice (if a bit obscure) RedMax. It is not a saw to show off to one's friends and make one feel good about their position in life, but it is a decently light and powerful 62cc chainsaw and I expect it will cut some wood. I intend to do just that with it and will see how it holds up.
I think that the "better results" you mention are mostly social and emotional things. How is it really any different than starting with a used saw that you know will need new parts?
EDIT: One of the other things to take away from this is that they only need to spend a little more time on assembly, and perhaps some better plastic molds, to make an acceptable product. They could change the porting a little and stick a cat muffler on and be legal, just as they did with the Earthquakes and as other name brands do.
motorman1
ArboristSite Operative
I've really enjoyed this thread. So glad it was someone else's money used for a change. Really makes one have to wonder how Stihl can put out a serviceable saw for around $179 (170) that doesn't have any of the mentioned issues present on the Chicom saw. I'm hoping he'll purchase a Yugo, or Daiwoo next. LOL.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Simple - a 170 is a really cheaply made plastic clamshell, and chainsaws don't really cost that much to make which means that they can sell the low end ones cheap if they want to. They'll make their money on the expensive ones. And a 170 isn't a 62cc saw either.
Then again a 50cc strato engined Poulan Pro will cost you about the same as that 170 - how come that Stihl costs so much?
I bought a Hyundai Accent in 1999, cheapest car available at the time. Leather wheel and shifter, dead peddle, sunroof, alloys, fog lights, A/C, great adjustable seat. Best car I ever owned, dead solid reliable, easy to service, fun to drive and never gets less then 30mpg. Still drive it every day.
Oh, and you do know that Daewoo designs all of GM's small cars don't you?
motorman1
ArboristSite Operative
Fit and finish on the toy Stihls have always been superb, requiring nothing be done for them to perform like they should. Not knocking the little Poulans at all, just mentioned the Stihl because I've dealt with lots of them. Mostly simple tune ups. Bars are top quality, as are the chains. Just saying everything fits and works as it should on them without requiring owner craftsmanship and engineering skills. I'm with the guy who thinks you're going to end up with a shop floor ornament sooner than you think, probably on your second or third tank. LOL
Had no idea Daewoo designed GM's small cars. Doesn't say much for GM's small cars, does it? Not suggesting you dissect a Hyundai, just the Yugo and Daewoo (both no longer produced), so we can all see how you'd address their poor design, fit and finish. Worst built cars I've ever seen in my life. The Pinto, while a disaster, at least worked and didn't dismantle itself while you were driving down the road, or rolling up the window, or simply shutting the door.
Had no idea Daewoo designed GM's small cars. Doesn't say much for GM's small cars, does it? Not suggesting you dissect a Hyundai, just the Yugo and Daewoo (both no longer produced), so we can all see how you'd address their poor design, fit and finish. Worst built cars I've ever seen in my life. The Pinto, while a disaster, at least worked and didn't dismantle itself while you were driving down the road, or rolling up the window, or simply shutting the door.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
What if it doesn't?
I'm certainly not saying this was an example of high quality manufacturing - it's not. But most of what was wrong with it was easy to fix and involved only a bit of simple clean up and some attention during reassembly. I haven't seen any problems with the basic mechanical assembly yet. So while it would be wrong to say it is a high quality product, I would not count on it blowing up anytime soon either. I've run quite a few tanks through my ported Earthquake (RedMax G3800 clone) and it will start and run on the third pull every time, and it cuts very well. I fully expect them both to last for a long time. If I had to take a guess at the weakest part of this saw it would be the starter, and I may put a decomp valve on it to take the load off of it - but then I really don't have any evidence of that either.
Just trying to tell it realistically, not look at it through rose colored glasses or to make it out as worse than it is. It's a 62cc alloy case saw that weighs 12.4lbs, makes decent power, has an inboard clutch and rim drive, and adjustable oiler with a knob on the top cover. The assembly was sloppy, but the design is faithful to the original.
And the Daewoo is still produced and sold here - they just wear Chevy badges now. The Cruze is considered a pretty good car - guess what it is?
motorman1
ArboristSite Operative
A piece of **** is a piece of ****. I believe the Pinto's gas tank was unprotected behind the rear bumper, but was an easy fix, otherwise the car was mechanically sound for a fuel miser of the 70's.
As far as the saw goes, if such poor attention was given to its assembly, fit and finish, what makes you think anymore care went into the casting, metallurgy and electronics???? That you defend such an obvious piece of **** astounds me. I don't condone making excuses for companies that produce obviously inferior products, no matter the price point. Use your previous Poulan 50cc analogy as an example, even though they come with a ****** bar and chain.
I'm a firm believer, after many DECADES of being disappointed, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. I'm also willing to bet a Stihl MS170, Echo, Husky, or Poulan will probably out-cut, and certainly outlast, that Chi-com 62cc saw. The quality just isn't there, and that;s just from reading your postings / findings. The bar's ****, the chain's **** etc... Hell. I'm certain I could spend a few hundred dollars and have one of the saw porters on this site "massage" it to make it "acceptable" as a 62cc saw, but that would be galactically stupid, IMHO.
As far as the saw goes, if such poor attention was given to its assembly, fit and finish, what makes you think anymore care went into the casting, metallurgy and electronics???? That you defend such an obvious piece of **** astounds me. I don't condone making excuses for companies that produce obviously inferior products, no matter the price point. Use your previous Poulan 50cc analogy as an example, even though they come with a ****** bar and chain.
I'm a firm believer, after many DECADES of being disappointed, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. I'm also willing to bet a Stihl MS170, Echo, Husky, or Poulan will probably out-cut, and certainly outlast, that Chi-com 62cc saw. The quality just isn't there, and that;s just from reading your postings / findings. The bar's ****, the chain's **** etc... Hell. I'm certain I could spend a few hundred dollars and have one of the saw porters on this site "massage" it to make it "acceptable" as a 62cc saw, but that would be galactically stupid, IMHO.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Then I would suggest you not get one. I'd also suggest there are plenty of things in life you can get stressed about, some of them actually important. This isn't one.
motorman1
ArboristSite Operative
Never for minute did I think it was important, just entertaining. I'd never buy such a saw, but have always wondered what drove others to spend money to find out about them. I both salute and thank you. Posts like yours are valuable, so people can confirm what they've mostly known and you've proven, with your money, time and saw knowledge. I know I've looked at more than a few Chicom Stihl 090 knock-offs and wondered, hmmmmm. No offense meant, really.
motorman1
ArboristSite Operative
I kind of like that he is wasting his money evaluating saws I would have balked at and not given any further attention, confirms my thoughts and re-affirms my belief in spending on quality over price. I'm grateful he has the disposable cash to spend on such saw. As I said earlier, I've been very interested in the AM Stihl 137cc class saws. Huge difference in price between OEM and AM. Next, perhaps he can post a Chicom AM build thread of a complete Stihl 090?
PS.: If he can cut one cord of hardwood with that saw, IMHO, he didn't break even. I can get a "seasoned" cord of hardwood delivered for $225
PS.: If he can cut one cord of hardwood with that saw, IMHO, he didn't break even. I can get a "seasoned" cord of hardwood delivered for $225
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
If you are considering buying a 090, either real or copy, then you obviously have no problem disposing of cash - they are almost totally pointless as useful tools for cutting wood, rather they are toys to be played with. I am curious what other saws you have?
motorman1
ArboristSite Operative
Pretty close to every Stihl made now, and since 1990
Several Husky's L series through 372 and 288
Couple of Poulan Pro's 3700-5200
Some really old Maxs
Some reallt old Homelites
Some really old Pioneers
Some really old Partners
Some really old Prtners
Some really old Dolmars
Just curious, which newer saw would you suggest to flush cut a 60"+ cedar? Lots of them now thanks to the 400,000+ acre "rimfire" in California.
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Wow, I cant believe the hate towards this project. Why don't we cheer the guy on instead of tearing him down. If he didn't spend your money what is it to you. He did everyone a favor since we now know who could buy one of these (someone with shop skills) and who should completely avoid them. I'm not sure anyone is even promoting these saws, but someone has given us the good, the bad, and the ugly; without costing us a dime!
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motorman1
ArboristSite Operative
Strongly suggest you read it again. I praised him for spending his money and educating us on such a saw, even saluted him. You not understand ENGLISH?
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
If you've got 60" cedars then you'd be one of the few that could use an 090 for the purpose it was intended.
That's quite an investment. Even with this big $210 expenditure of disposable cash which you so obviously disapprove of (note that I do not need your approval), my saws in total are worth a tiny fraction of what you've spent. Seems quite curious to be chastised by some guy who's spent what you have. Every one of my saws is considered junk, all but 2 were used and broken. Every one runs perfectly. We heat exclusively with wood, and the house is warm and cozy, and next year some of that wood will be cut by this saw. There is really no need to feel threatened by my cheap saw, it's not going to devalue your collection.
Oh, I can read. You've made your point quite clear and are nowhere near as subtle as you believe.
