PowerSharp!!!!

[Philbert]

Hey Philbert, you ever try hand filing one of those yet? I havent, just wondering. I kept my worn out one, I need to look real close at it.

Nope. No plans to. I suppose that if I was stuck on the mythical desert island with my saw, dull chain, a file, fresh 2-cycle mix, and no sharpening cassette, I might try.

(PS - don't throw out out your worn one Zog - spin off the diamond links and give them to the missus!)

Philbert

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

Yes, the saw I put mine on was a Poulan Pro that ran a .325 chain, and the extra power make the powersharp sing!.

Phil

Here's the answer to the question about PowerSharp being only .375 pitch. I didn't think I was loosing it. Yet anyways! I hadn't pulled mine to check it.

 

[Philbert]

Originally Posted by Fish
Yes, the saw I put mine on was a Poulan Pro that ran a .325 chain, and the extra power make the powersharp sing!.

Phil Here's the answer to the question about PowerSharp being only .375 pitch.

I read that as the good Dr. Fish taking a saw that had previously been set up to run .325 chain and fitted it with a 3/8LP sprocket to test the chain. Fish?

I know that when I got my demo chain the Oregon people were specific about not running it on too large of a saw. Apparently, 3/8 low pro chain, in general, is only recommended for saws up to around 42cc and bars up to 18 inches.

Philbert

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

bump for the new guys

 

[bigblackdodge]

My Initial Opinions

Hey Gang, thanks to a Great AS member, I now have a 16" PS system on my little MS170.
View attachment 280675View attachment 280677
Now I've already Modded the Muffler on this saw some time back, so despite being only 30cc's, it does run out pretty well for what it is. I mainly use this saw for limbing and cutting up the tops as it's lighter than my MS290 and 038. I finally got the chance to use this setup on a big scaffold branch from a Curly Maple late last month. This scaffold branch, which was 24" at the crotch end, had broken at the crotch over a year ago, but it didn't break free from the trunk and the end limbs, touching the ground, kept the rest of it suspended to season out very nicely. I ran about 1 1/3 tanks of fuel through the saw with this setup on it. Never rocked it, never touched the sharpening cassette, and was pretty impressed that it performed just like it's advertised to. It seems to me, that it may be a tad bit faster through the cut compared to the picco micro I usually run on this saw. I couldn't get a fair comparison since the only picco micro I've got for this saw looks like this.
View attachment 280678
The chain is very aggressive compared to the Picco Micro chain, and a bit choppy IMHO. It likes to grab if you are cutting something smaller, say a 4" or smaller diameter limb and you aren't using a lot of throttle. You do have to be careful if you're cutting up this type of smaller wood out towards the bar tip and not against the saw body, as this chain will grab it and yank it to the saw body. I should have snapped some pics of the cut surface, but I had limited daylight and it was burning up quickly on me. Although the cutters working face is it's Top Plate, it does leave substantial grooves in the cut surface of the wood. I believe this is due to the point of the cutter being a bit more prominent compared to a standard cutter, and the angle looks to be a bit steeper as well. It does sever the fibers nicely and throws bigger chips than the Picco Micro.

I used the saw from the tip of the branch, up to about 14" diameter wood. Under normal circumstances I would have switched to the MS290 sooner, but I wanted to really get a good work out with the PS system. I will honestly say, with the experience I've had so far, I am itching to use it again, and I am really looking forward to trying out an 18" .325 setup for the MS290!
View attachment 280679
I thoroughly enjoy hand filing my chains, and I will continue to do so. But this setup will remain in my working collection. I have been cutting firewood all my life. I got my first saw when I was 9 years old, I am now 37. This year my 65 year old father will be retiring, and I will buy him one of these for his new tool-less Homelite saw. He also still heats with wood, and this is the Perfect Setup for a feller like him. Of course you know who, keeps him well stocked with firewood, but he does like to piddle around and cut up dead fall limbs and such.

I believe Oregon has figured this thing out. It's not for everyone, but it is for someone. I look forward to putting more time on it and sharing my experience with you all.

A Big Thank You to Philbert!:cool2:

 

[dboyd351]

Bigblackdodge,
Thanks for the report. Good to hear a variety of experiences with it.

 

[nelson727]

Was excited to get onto threads about the PowerSharp system from something Philbert said elsewhere. Have read through the pages of at least two threads and have a single question remaining. Is this a functional chain for homeowner use from new to dead?

A year ago I was given a complete system with two new chains to try out by one of my favorite saw shops. He didn’t think he was going to stock it and asked if I would give it a try and let him know. I ran it on a 16 in. saw cutting some pier posts that had been pulled out of silt. I made some cuts until I needed to sharpen it three different times and after that it pulled too much to the side to be workable so I put normal chain back on the saw and finished out a truck load with file sharpening and normal chain. I have not been back to it since. I do recall seeing the sharpening ‘stone’ to have a deep sadly misshapen groove.

My hopes for the chain were that it would work satisfactorily and that I could
recommend it to my tree service customers as a workable alternative to risking life and limb pushing down hard on dull chain because they did not want to take their saw in to be sharpened at the saw shop. Also if it was passable to use I would have been happy to carry a set up in the truck for the rare occasions where I choose to cut through roots, sharpen, cut, resharpen etc..

Has anyone found this to be a workable system that would cut roughly similarly from new to chain used up 10+ sharpenings latter?

 

[Philbert]

. . .I made some cuts until I needed to sharpen it three different times and after that it pulled too much to the side to be workable . . .

Any chance you still have the chain? Can you post photos of the cutters and the stone?

One of reps who brought PowerSharp chains to a GTG mentioned the tendency for guide bars to flex when people press their saws into the sharpening cassette. He told us to watch for this and to keep the bar straight. He also told us to be sure to mount the sharpening cassette on the bar the same way each time. I wonder if either of these could have been a factor in the uneven sharpening?

I have run it on several saws, but none down to the nubs (yet). I have sharpened some 6+ times with good results, but there could be some differences in counting between 'touch up' and 'bringing-it-back-from-the-dead' sharpenings. The only chain I had an issue with was the first one, that we intentionally ground into some concrete, just 'to test it'. Those cutters did not look even, but kept cutting; not as good as the PowerSharp chains that I did not abuse, but I did not notice pulling to the side.

Back to your 'single remaining question' - how many sharpenings would an average homeowner get from a conventional chain? 10 sharpenings, or using a chain completely up, sounds more like a somewhat knowledgeable/skilled user. A lot of guys toss chains with life left in them, but factor in the cost of having the chain sharpened by a shop or hardware store ($7 or so?). So at 2 sharpenings the cost between a conventional chain and a PowerSharp chain and stone is probably about the same. Any more and the user is ahead.

But the other issue is convenience. Not having to stop work, not having to swap chains, not having to take the chain in, etc., can be a real advantage for someone without the skill, ability, or desire to sharpen in the field. Just like a file, the sharpening cassette can be used to maintain a sharp edge with very little skill or effort.

Philbert

 

[nelson727]

Philbert, thank you so much for your well thought out and thoughtful reply.

I do have the chain and will take pictures of stone as well to post. I may have turned the cassette over between sharpenings and I don’t think so but, may have pushed on bar hard enough to flex. I will put on new chain and stone and try from fresh to see how many sharpenings I can get and how efficiently it cuts on the latter sharpenings using correct technique.

I would like for this to work and to be able to recommend it to my customers. I cant tell you how many times I have had some rancher/farmer homeowner around and my saw will run out of gas and he will say here try mine, no use mine. I start to make one cut and then feel rude as I walk way back over to my truck to fill up.

 

[AuerX]

Sorry guys for being somewhat noobish but is there a 12" powersharp starter kit for a Stihl 020 AV Super?

Thanks

Eric

 

[dboyd351]

I ran it on a 16 in. saw cutting some pier posts that had been pulled out of silt. I made some cuts until I needed to sharpen it three different times and after that it pulled too much to the side to be workable Also if it was passable to use I would have been happy to carry a set up in the truck for the rare occasions where I choose to cut through roots, sharpen, cut, resharpen etc..

Nelson727,
I think your experience with the Powersharp system is more due to how you used it than the system itself. I've flush-cut a tree with a normal chain and it wouldn't cut anywhere near straight after I did that. With a file you can selectively sharpen the cutters that need it and bring that chain back to fairly normal cutting. Sounds like from what you described as the look of the Powersharp stone, that it took a "set" and wouldn't sharpen well after that.

I'd suggest if you want to see how the system works for the average person, you use it for normal cutting, not cutting posts full of silt or roots. Most people I know only use their old, beat-up chains for such things, because they know it will ruin the chain.

 

[Philbert]

Sorry guys for being somewhat noobish but is there a 12" powersharp starter kit for a Stihl 020 AV Super?

Eric,

Check the Oregon consumer web site - they have a PowerSharp fit/application list. Some of the retail outlets only stock a limited selection. If you find it on the website you should be able to order one from any Oregon dealer.

Philbert

 

[nelson727]

Philbert here are pictures of stone and chain as per your request in post #168.

View attachment 298766View attachment 298768View attachment 298770View attachment 298771

Have since gone on to test new chain and stone combo and will try to post satisfactory results next.

 

[nelson727]

How many pictures do you/the forum/the thread want put up to show progression of testing a chain from new to nearly used up? I have about 16 that could be of interest.


dboyd351 I now think you are right that it was more the way I used it. Am going to keep that chain and stone combo and try sharpening it again. I highly suspect I just need to clean it up a bit more and then I will be able to get more life out of it.

I like your description about salvaging a chain and only using old beat up (run out) chain when it comes to normally filed chain. One of the reasons I have hoped that the PowerSharp system would work well is that when I have done this in the past I have found the cutters to be work hardened and thus difficult to file back to acceptable sharp. The PS system seems to promise a work around on this for me by using the stone and saw to do the hard work.

 

[PowerSharp Eng]

Philbert here are pictures of stone and chain as per your request in post #168.

View attachment 298766

Hello nelson 727,

Thanks for the pictures, it helped greatly to see them.

1) the pictures showing the inside of the sharpener indicate you did flip the sharpener housing on the bar. If the sharpener was always put on the bar the same way the debris would only be in one set of spark arrestor fins. The spark arrestor fins on both sides had spark debris in them. The fins are located just where the chain enters or exits the sharpener. The fins capture the majority of sparks so they do not exit the sharpener.

For best results we advise orienting the sharpener the same way every time. This keeps any deflection of the bar or sharpener the same when you push on the saw handles. I typically orient the sharpener so the release latch is on the same side as the saw's clutch cover. Pick an orientation that works best for you to remember.

The groove in the stone should have a sharp corner along the intersection of the groove sides and bottom. Looking closely at the groove in your the stone it appeared to have a large radius along the intersection of one side and the groove bottom. The large radius will dull a sharp cutting corner of the cutter. The large radius in the stone is caused when the chain and dresser link do not cut into the stone the same way during each sharpening. So making sure you put the sharpener on the same way will help you and don't remove the stone from the sharpener until the chain is at end of life.

The stone and chain are a matched pair. Don't mix and match different chains and stones. Otherwise the chain life will be shortened.


2) looking at the chain pictures I could clearly see the left hand cutters. They appeared to have a sharp cutting corner. The angle of the pictures did not let me see the cutting corner of the right hand cutters. If you could angle the camera straight at the front of the right cutters it would make is easier to see the cutting corners.

Thanks for posting your experience!!!

 

[nelson727]

PowerSharp Eng, Thank you for addressing my pictures and yes I will get a picture that shows the right hand cutters as you asked. Though I must tell you that I am already looking forward to telling my tree service customers that this is the answer for them. To have a good cutting saw and be able to get back to that easily when they hit the ground as they do occasional clean up and chainsaw use is what most of them would want.

I took Philbert’s thoughts to heart as I tried a new chain and stone combo. So I kept the release latch on the bar nut side and made sure the bar did not flex. That seemed to do the trick and the chain performed admirably through use to dull and ten separate sharpenings/cycles.

Thanks again for the explanation of how things work on this combo. I like to understand the basics of things. When a ‘long timer’ posts and gives me an idea of how many pictures to put up, I will understand if you avert your eyes from the monitor. I did bad things with your beautiful creation.

 

[dboyd351]

I must tell you that I am already looking forward to telling my tree service customers that this is the answer for them. To have a good cutting saw and be able to get back to that easily when they hit the ground as they do occasional clean up and chainsaw use is what most of them would want.

I think you may well be right about this being the answer for the occasional user. It is certainly a big advantage to be able to sharpen a chain so quickly and get back to efficient cutting. Thanks to you and Philbert for doing such an objective job of testing them. I bought one, but have hardly used it so far.

Just so you know, there can be a huge disparity in prices for the setup. I got my chain/bar/sharpener combo for something like $35 (the 14 inch small Craftsman/Poulan/Echo version), but you often see them priced at around $70. I got mine on sale at a big box store. You see them on sale on fleabay, too.

 

[Philbert]

I am glad that PSE was able to chime in - I am on an iPhone and can barely see the photos!

Philbert

 

[nelson727]

Wanted to say thanks for the help so generously given by members here and post some results I found.

I put on a new 14 inch Power Sharp chain and installed a new stone in the cassette. My intention was to use the roots/stump on the neighbors property as a way to make cuts and accomplish something while sharp and also dull the chain quickly enough to not spend an excessive amount of time on this test.

My initial premiss was that if I could dull the chain and sharpen it 10 times and have the chain cut acceptably the whole time I then could feel good about recommending this product to my tree service customers as a solution for their chainsaw occasional use needs.


View attachment 302832

Each time It was dull I scored a mark on a piece of plywood right after sharpening. I kept the latch of the sharpening cassette on the same side of the saw each time I used it and made sure not to push down on the sharpening ‘foot’ hard enough to flex the bar.

View attachment 302833

After having dulled the chain and sharpened the 10th time I cut some small pancakes off a piece of firewood. This chain is still in serviceable condition and will see more use when I have a job some time where I need to cut dirty wood.

View attachment 302834


This chain/sharpener combo performed above my expectations for the abuse I put it through. I will heartily recommend it to those who do not sharpen their own chains. Even though I do all of my own hand sharpening, on the occasions where I must cut roots or dirty wood, this system will be a big time saver for me.

I have already purchased three new chain/stone combos for my 14 inch bar and two new 16 inch bar and chain combos. As someone said above prices vary widely.

 

[AuerX]

Thanks for a nice review!

Eric