powerstroke or cummins

[redprospector]

Personally, I would rather buy a truck that had been tapped for a pyrometer (egt gauge). That would be an indication that the previous owner was at least watching what the engine was doing. If your egt's get too hot you can fry a turbo, crack a head, or do numerous other things to damage the engine.
Pulling a load without a pyrometer would be like running a truck without a coolant tempurature gauge.
A pyrometer will also let you know when the egt's have cooled enough to turn the engine off after running at highway speed's, or pulling a load.
My 98 Dodge 24 valve is bone stock, but I assure you I have a pyrometer, boost pressure gauge, and a fuel pressure gauge in it. I want to know what's going on under the hood so I can avoid problems.

Andy

 

[John D]

Personally, I would rather buy a truck that had been tapped for a pyrometer (egt gauge). That would be an indication that the previous owner was at least watching what the engine was doing. If your egt's get too hot you can fry a turbo, crack a head, or do numerous other things to damage the engine.
Pulling a load without a pyrometer would be like running a truck without a coolant tempurature gauge.
A pyrometer will also let you know when the egt's have cooled enough to turn the engine off after running at highway speed's, or pulling a load.
My 98 Dodge 24 valve is bone stock, but I assure you I have a pyrometer, boost pressure gauge, and a fuel pressure gauge in it. I want to know what's going on under the hood so I can avoid problems.

Andy

Andy,I understand what you mean,the problem is most trucks with guages are run hard,the guages are there because a lot of fuel has been added. The duramax easily makes 500hpRWHP in a stock turbo in lb7 form,but a ton of heat.Biggest problem I have buying a "chipped: truck is if the previous owner was towing heavy with it on the higher power levels,or drag racing the truck as most do with no reguard for EGT.My Dodge has guages too,but now way would i try to sell it as stock,its a twin turbo'd truck 5 yrs now. My pyro hasnt been past 1300 in 4 yrs now.

 

[custom8726]

Andy,I understand what you mean,the problem is most trucks with guages are run hard,the guages are there because a lot of fuel has been added. The duramax easily makes 500hpRWHP in a stock turbo in lb7 form,but a ton of heat.Biggest problem I have buying a "chipped: truck is if the previous owner was towing heavy with it on the higher power levels,or drag racing the truck as most do with no reguard for EGT.My Dodge has guages too,but now way would i try to sell it as stock,its a twin turbo'd truck 5 yrs now. My pyro hasnt been past 1300 in 4 yrs now.

Twins are on my wish list this year Problem is its 15k+ with the supporting mods for a duramax. I use my gauges all the time because I am often pulling trailers with a hot tune in. Its amazing how a 16th of an inch of throttle will sway your EGT's one way or another. However on a factory tuned Duramax there is very little to worry about, the computer will automatically de-fuel the truck if your EGT's get to high or your transmisson temps get hot, etc...etc... Not the case with alot of tuners, its your responsibility to keep the engine with-in semi safe ranges, like under 1200 substained EGT's while towing. I tune my truck for no more then 1000deg EGT's substained while towing but I will still get 1300-1400 spikes when pulling steep grades for long periods. Its scray when you look at the EGT Gauge and it pinned past 1800 but I only do that when its at the track or pullls and it for short burst like 12 sec....

 

[VINIFIREWOOD]

John D brought up the issue with EGT's when running a tuner. One of the reasons I went with a Banks system on mine was because it monitors the EGT's and if they start getting too high the tuner automatically self adjusts and starts cutting back on fuel. It also monitors the transmition temps, and it monitors the trans input and output shafts to detect any slippage and also detunes if problems are detected. So the good tuners out there also add alot of "safety" features along with the extra power. I did alot of research on these things before purchasing because lets face it, ya its nice to have the extra power for what ever reason you desire, but who wants to replace an engine or transmition.

 

[redprospector]

Andy,I understand what you mean,the problem is most trucks with guages are run hard,the guages are there because a lot of fuel has been added. The duramax easily makes 500hpRWHP in a stock turbo in lb7 form,but a ton of heat.Biggest problem I have buying a "chipped: truck is if the previous owner was towing heavy with it on the higher power levels,or drag racing the truck as most do with no reguard for EGT.My Dodge has guages too,but now way would i try to sell it as stock,its a twin turbo'd truck 5 yrs now. My pyro hasnt been past 1300 in 4 yrs now.

I agree with you mostly. The problem to me is that most used trucks out there have been run hard, unless they were owned by the proverbial "little old lady from Pasadina".
The problem as I see it is most drivers don't know how hard they are running their truck without gauges.
I bought a Powerstroke once that looked & ran pretty good when I bought it. Second week I had it the turbo went to crap. When I took it apart there was enough cooked oil in that thing that I have no idea how it could even turn. No gauge tap on that one. Ofcourse the idiot who had it before me probably would have fried it with a gauge. I had nothing but problem's with that truck.
The Dodge I have now had gauges, pac brake, and a gear vendor so I knew it had been worked. I've been running it pretty hard for almost 3 years with no engine problem's (knock on wood).
I can see merit in both of our opinion's, it's just the experience I had that makes me think the way I do.
Diesel's aren't for everyone. I've seen guy's who could burn one up even with all the safety stuff on the new ones.

Andy

 

[custom8726]

John D brought up the issue with EGT's when running a tuner. One of the reasons I went with a Banks system on mine was because it monitors the EGT's and if they start getting too high the tuner automatically self adjusts and starts cutting back on fuel. It also monitors the transmition temps, and it monitors the trans input and output shafts to detect any slippage and also detunes if problems are detected. So the good tuners out there also add alot of "safety" features along with the extra power. I did alot of research on these things before purchasing because lets face it, ya its nice to have the extra power for what ever reason you desire, but who wants to replace an engine or transmition.

The Duramax/allison already have the same safety features built in as the Bank's system, Also the Banks Nor anything else monitors the input or output shafts. The Banks aswell as the Factory programing monitor clutch slippage and when detected put the truck in Limp mode and reduce power and or lock it in whatever gear it was slipping the clutches in also reducing the rev limiter to around 2k... Banks makes a good kit with safety in mind but its still very possible to hurt the transmission with any tuner/programer including Banks. Not to mention you can get twice as much out of EFI Live or PPE for almost half the price. And as far as who wants to replace a transmission, well I guess that would be me, I also like smoking stangs and Vett's in a 7600lb 4X4 truck and then hooking it up to my gooseneck trailer and hauling 25K+ with it..

 

[custom8726]

I agree with you mostly. The problem to me is that most used trucks out there have been run hard, unless they were owned by the proverbial "little old lady from Pasadina".
The problem as I see it is most drivers don't know how hard they are running their truck without gauges.
I bought a Powerstroke once that looked & ran pretty good when I bought it. Second week I had it the turbo went to crap. When I took it apart there was enough cooked oil in that thing that I have no idea how it could even turn. No gauge tap on that one. Ofcourse the idiot who had it before me probably would have fried it with a gauge. I had nothing but problem's with that truck.
The Dodge I have now had gauges, pac brake, and a gear vendor so I knew it had been worked. I've been running it pretty hard for almost 3 years with no engine problem's (knock on wood).
I can see merit in both of our opinion's, it's just the experience I had that makes me think the way I do.
Diesel's aren't for everyone. I've seen guy's who could burn one up even with all the safety stuff on the new ones.

Andy

The EGR crap and pvc being routed back into the motor is where all the soot is coming from if it was a newer Diesel. A Pyro or Boost gauge will not have any effect on how much soot your engine or turbo has in it.

 

[VINIFIREWOOD]

CUSTOM8726
I refer to the Banks becease thats what I have thats what I know. The EFI and the PPE tuners weren't out when I bought mine. How do you monitor trans slippage if your not monitoring revolutions coming in and going out, just a question. As far as the limp mode kick out, it does not lock it in the gear it slips in, it locks it out of overdrive and usually into 4th gear, mine only slips in overdrive and as I stated it kicks out of overdrive and into 4th, and it will spin right to redline. Pull over shut off count to 5 and your good to go. Not sure about the newer models but my 03 didn't come with an EGT sensor so I'm not sure how the factory computer can monitor EGT and detune accordingly. One more note on EGT. If your doing alot of heavy hauling/towing or you have a tuner and your pushing over 80 extra hp you should seriously think about some bigger exhaust.

 

[HD-tech-NH]

It was an 02 Chevy 2500HD crew cab long bed LT with 76K miles new tires spray in bed liner and the price was 16900. But I wasn't warm and fuzzy about it. Plus the sales man was a d1c so I figured I would keep looking. Someone told me that you can't plow with these duramax trucks. Is that true? Also what is the killer roll pin in the cummins that I keep hearing about? The next truck on my list to look at is a super clean 2001 2500 cummins quad cab long bed with 118K for 10900.

 

[custom8726]

It was an 02 Chevy 2500HD crew cab long bed LT with 76K miles new tires spray in bed liner and the price was 16900. But I wasn't warm and fuzzy about it. Plus the sales man was a d1c so I figured I would keep looking. Someone told me that you can't plow with these duramax trucks. Is that true?

Not true at all, Our 04 LB7 has had a plow since new. I would say with out seeing the truck its 1-2k over priced for our current economy, model year ETC..

 

[custom8726]

CUSTOM8726
I refer to the Banks becease thats what I have thats what I know. The EFI and the PPE tuners weren't out when I bought mine. How do you monitor trans slippage if your not monitoring revolutions coming in and going out, just a question. As far as the limp mode kick out, it does not lock it in the gear it slips in, it locks it out of overdrive and usually into 4th gear, mine only slips in overdrive and as I stated it kicks out of overdrive and into 4th, and it will spin right to redline. Pull over shut off count to 5 and your good to go. Not sure about the newer models but my 03 didn't come with an EGT sensor so I'm not sure how the factory computer can monitor EGT and detune accordingly. One more note on EGT. If your doing alot of heavy hauling/towing or you have a tuner and your pushing over 80 extra hp you should seriously think about some bigger exhaust.

Our LB7 has the Banks Big Hoss Bundle on it so I am quit familiar with it also, The LLY has the PPE HOT + 2. I believe you are correct on the revolutions IN/OUT on the shafts I just never heard it worded in such a way, Always as clutch slippage. I stated AND/OR with the red line limiter depends on which code is thrown, The 4-5 upshift and 5-4 downshift are the most common for clutch slippage (HENCE) most commonly locking it in 4th (HENCE) C3 clutch pack. As far as pulling over and counting to 5 that will only happen so many times before the clutches are burnt up and you go no more. Each time you limp your trans it glaze's over the friction material untill the factory clutches will not grab any more. The more you limp it, the easier it will limp again and again... I have had the transmission out of my LLY 3 times in under 15k, Its now built right and holding strong.. No Factory EGT ports on any Duramax's 01 to present to my knowledge but you can monitor EGT's VIA EFI LIVE with out.. And Lastly both the 05 and the 04 Have after market exhaust's, (BANKS, MBRP) and missing kitty's...

 

[custom8726]

It was an 02 Chevy 2500HD crew cab long bed LT with 76K miles new tires spray in bed liner and the price was 16900. But I wasn't warm and fuzzy about it. Plus the sales man was a d1c so I figured I would keep looking. Someone told me that you can't plow with these duramax trucks. Is that true? Also what is the killer roll pin in the cummins that I keep hearing about? The next truck on my list to look at is a super clean 2001 2500 cummins quad cab long bed with 118K for 10900.

FYI.. There is a nice 02 Duramax on dieselplace.com with 136k for 13.5 right now. I see you are in N.H. I will keep an eye out for something local for you.

On edit, Hope the prior post did not scare you away from the Duramax with the tranny out 3 times in 15k and clutches slipping. That is on my 05 putting out twice as much H.P. as stock. The Lb7 with the Banks is still on its original after over 100k of plowing and pulling heavy almost daily..

 

[VINIFIREWOOD]

Our LB7 has the Banks Big Hoss Bundle on it so I am quit familiar with it also, The LLY has the PPE HOT + 2. I believe you are correct on the revolutions IN/OUT on the shafts I just never heard it worded in such a way, Always as clutch slippage. I stated AND/OR with the red line limiter depends on which code is thrown, The 4-5 upshift and 5-4 downshift are the most common for clutch slippage (HENCE) most commonly locking it in 4th (HENCE) C3 clutch pack. As far as pulling over and counting to 5 that will only happen so many times before the clutches are burnt up and you go no more. Each time you limp your trans it glaze's over the friction material untill the factory clutches will not grab any more. The more you limp it, the easier it will limp again and again... I have had the transmission out of my LLY 3 times in under 15k, Its now built right and holding strong.. No Factory EGT ports on any Duramax's 01 to present to my knowledge but you can monitor EGT's VIA EFI LIVE with out.. And Lastly both the 05 and the 04 Have after market exhaust's, (BANKS, MBRP) and missing kitty's...

Somebody told me once that since my trans only slips when in gear during hard acceleration, not when shifting, that it is the torque converter that is slipping not the internal clutches. Don't know if there is any truth to that. How do you like your MBRP compared to your Banks, mine has the Banks Duals and love the sound. Any idea how the EFI unit monitors EGT without a sensor?

 

[John D]

Somebody told me once that since my trans only slips when in gear during hard acceleration, not when shifting, that it is the torque converter that is slipping not the internal clutches. Don't know if there is any truth to that. How do you like your MBRP compared to your Banks, mine has the Banks Duals and love the sound. Any idea how the EFI unit monitors EGT without a sensor?

When under hard acceleration,the TC isnt always locked,so it is flashing,not slipping when it isnt,it will flash/stall higher with added power.The allison 1000 has a feature for fuel economy that kills trans holding power.The line pressures drop in 5th when locked up,to reduce the power requirement on the front pump,and thus increase fuel mileage slightly.With a stock truck it works great. When you turn up the power,it usually slips in 5th locked,esp towing heavy,this is usually why.You need to address this,and the entire trans usually at 60Hp or more over stock if youe towing heavy.A new TC will not help the line pressure drop,and you will fry the clutches,and send the friction "dust" into the new tc and contaminate it.

 

[VINIFIREWOOD]

When under hard acceleration,the TC isnt always locked,so it is flashing,not slipping when it isnt,it will flash/stall higher with added power.The allison 1000 has a feature for fuel economy that kills trans holding power.The line pressures drop in 5th when locked up,to reduce the power requirement on the front pump,and thus increase fuel mileage slightly.With a stock truck it works great. When you turn up the power,it usually slips in 5th locked,esp towing heavy,this is usually why.You need to address this,and the entire trans usually at 60Hp or more over stock if youe towing heavy.A new TC will not help the line pressure drop,and you will fry the clutches,and send the friction "dust" into the new tc and contaminate it.

That explains it, thanks. I only have issues when in 5th and have the tuner in the top setting, so when I go to pass somebody I have to either make sure it downshifts or step in slowly. Thinking about the line pressure upgrade to take care of it since I don't do alot of heavy towing.

 

[Burvol]

I'd take the cummins for the motor and the Ford for the running gear & tranny, hands down. I'd say 90% of the crummies I have seen or rode in are Fords.

 

[redprospector]

The EGR crap and pvc being routed back into the motor is where all the soot is coming from if it was a newer Diesel. A Pyro or Boost gauge will not have any effect on how much soot your engine or turbo has in it.

Hahaha. I'm too tight to own anything too new.
I don't think I want one much newer than I have. The Ford was a 97 model, 7.3. Not soot in that turbo, just cooked oil. My guess is from not letting it cool down before shutting it off.

Andy

 

[John D]

That explains it, thanks. I only have issues when in 5th and have the tuner in the top setting, so when I go to pass somebody I have to either make sure it downshifts or step in slowly. Thinking about the line pressure upgrade to take care of it since I don't do alot of heavy towing.

Your welcome,you can do a trans go kit,problem is on the 5 speed auto,to do the kit right,the trans needs to come out,an be disassembled.The 06 6speeds already have the internal work done,all you have to do is the work in the valve body which is pretty easy.

 

[custom8726]

Your welcome,you can do a trans go kit,problem is on the 5 speed auto,to do the kit right,the trans needs to come out,an be disassembled.The 06 6speeds already have the internal work done,all you have to do is the work in the valve body which is pretty easy.

Exactly, If your going to upgrade the 5 speed line pressure VIA TRANS-GO you might aswell address the stock clutches, clutch count, and T.C. since you have to pull and disasemble the transmission anyways. The genaral rule of thumb is no more then 90hp over stock to keep your stock transmission alive but it seems like there is a big differance between friday trucks and monday trucks and how much punishment they will take...

 

[custom8726]

Somebody told me once that since my trans only slips when in gear during hard acceleration, not when shifting, that it is the torque converter that is slipping not the internal clutches. Don't know if there is any truth to that. How do you like your MBRP compared to your Banks, mine has the Banks Duals and love the sound. Any idea how the EFI unit monitors EGT without a sensor?

I got the MBRP DUALs on the 05 and the Banks' single on the 04, Honestly its a tie, I love the sound of the MBRP but its nice to not have the drone in the cab with the Banks. I will try to find out about the EGT/EFI question as I am not entirley sure.