blackdogon57
Addicted to ArboristSite
Don't know where you pulled that definition of shyster from, but I can't find a definition that refers to Judaism or antisemitism.
Price differences on wood
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Don't know where you pulled that definition of shyster from, but I can't find a definition that refers to Judaism or antisemitism.
Yeah, I've never heard the Jewish reference either... a "shyster" has always been an unscrupulous lawyer in the world I live.
woodenboater
ArboristSite Operative
Dictionary widget on my mac brings this up....
ORIGIN mid 19th cent.: origin uncertain; perhaps related to German Scheisser ‘worthless person.’
ORIGIN mid 19th cent.: origin uncertain; perhaps related to German Scheisser ‘worthless person.’
Well, this thread got derailed in classic style. Trying to figure out how to "unwatch" in the new forum software.
zogger
Tree Freak
I am not selling cords, but I process everything. yes, similar work/time expense to process different species, but..I live in the real world where not all days are arctic blasts. I cannot fathom why people around here insist on just oak or hickory. I have no idea how they deal with a hot oak fire when it is only high 30s or low 40s outside, seems silly to me to burn wood and have to open the windows when you are buying it. It is better for me to have some tulip poplar/pine/soft maple whatever in the stacks.
If I was forced into buying wood, I would ask for mixed. If the local sellers only had primo oak for x dollars, yep, I would ask to get my mixed with lesser species wood and to get it cheaper. I know the work is almost the same, yet..i would ask for it cheaper.
If they wanted the business, they might process me some and sell it..but they might not want to fool with it either, as it is similar work and expense.. I don't know what would happen though. Your lowball wood around here is typical of the sign at the local quickstore, a truckload of oak delivered for 50 bucks. Truckload is most likely around 1/3rd a cord or so.
It *is* weird, but that's how the firewood market goes I guess.
*Ring* Hi mr propane dood! I'd like to order a tank of low test propane, can I get it cheaper? How about super premium propane?
Or at the electric company, I only want those good electrons, nice clean sharp ones, none of those dull slow electrons...
fuel business is funny to me really.
Gas and diesel, you would think, if supply and demand really existed and it wasn't a wink wink nod nod cartel pricing scam, you would think there would be some pretty wide price differences, but there aren't. Every station is always with a few cents at best from each other. The only discrepancy there is the local no ethanol station does charge higher, at least 25 cent a gallon higher. I pay it, but I think guys like me are in the severe minority around here, people buy that 87 octane corn likker gas and can't do the math on mileage, damage to engines long term, etc. Silly, but there ya go.
If I was forced into buying wood, I would ask for mixed. If the local sellers only had primo oak for x dollars, yep, I would ask to get my mixed with lesser species wood and to get it cheaper. I know the work is almost the same, yet..i would ask for it cheaper.
If they wanted the business, they might process me some and sell it..but they might not want to fool with it either, as it is similar work and expense.. I don't know what would happen though. Your lowball wood around here is typical of the sign at the local quickstore, a truckload of oak delivered for 50 bucks. Truckload is most likely around 1/3rd a cord or so.
It *is* weird, but that's how the firewood market goes I guess.
*Ring* Hi mr propane dood! I'd like to order a tank of low test propane, can I get it cheaper? How about super premium propane?
Or at the electric company, I only want those good electrons, nice clean sharp ones, none of those dull slow electrons...
fuel business is funny to me really.
Gas and diesel, you would think, if supply and demand really existed and it wasn't a wink wink nod nod cartel pricing scam, you would think there would be some pretty wide price differences, but there aren't. Every station is always with a few cents at best from each other. The only discrepancy there is the local no ethanol station does charge higher, at least 25 cent a gallon higher. I pay it, but I think guys like me are in the severe minority around here, people buy that 87 octane corn likker gas and can't do the math on mileage, damage to engines long term, etc. Silly, but there ya go.
NSMaple1
Addicted to ArboristSite
I could agree with all of that, and can't really find fault with it. But it kind of torpedoes your original position that it all costs the same to produce.
Mixed messages, that's all.
You're doing OK doing what you're doing, that's likely all that really matters.
I’m sure I could do much better if I could keep up with production.
I have a BBQ restaurant that buys a cord a week. So that accounts for 52 cords a year guaranteed year round.
Where I live there is a BBQ joint on every corner, so the possibility for growth is very good.
I’m at the point where I’m thinking of hiring some help so I can concentrate more on sales and deliveries and customer service.
So far I’ve done everything myself and I think I’m at the point where I just can’t keep up on my own.
Unfortunately this summer I dislocated my shoulder and got behind on production. If I had stayed healthy I think I could have come close to 200 cord.
Let me tell ya 150 cords is a **** load of wood.lol
I have a BBQ restaurant that buys a cord a week. So that accounts for 52 cords a year guaranteed year round.
Where I live there is a BBQ joint on every corner, so the possibility for growth is very good.
I’m at the point where I’m thinking of hiring some help so I can concentrate more on sales and deliveries and customer service.
So far I’ve done everything myself and I think I’m at the point where I just can’t keep up on my own.
Unfortunately this summer I dislocated my shoulder and got behind on production. If I had stayed healthy I think I could have come close to 200 cord.
Let me tell ya 150 cords is a **** load of wood.lol
Ummmm.... zogger,
The laws (or rules) of Supply & Demand only work in a free market.
Gasoline and diesel (really any petroleum product) ain't been traded under anything resembling free market conditions since the Carter era. Petroleum is one of the most heavily regulated products/industries in this country's history. And, on average, varying slightly by state, the average consumer pays 49¢ per gallon of gas just in excise taxes alone... then there's road tax, sales tax, etc. And, the government subsidizes the competition... ethanol, bio-diesel, what-have-you. And, the government now either owns, or controls most of the lands where the oil fields are... not just here in the US, but worldwide. And, with few exceptions, the government heavily regulates the products that use petroleum based fuels.
Are you old enough to remember the "gas price wars" of the 60's?? Before the Carter administration local gas stations would "go to war" on prices, each one trying to undercut the other. Gas prices would steadily drop a half cent or so a day for a week, two weeks, maybe longer, until the margin ran out, then it would stabilize and steadily rise until the next "war". Gas would start out at 30¢ and drop to as little as 12¢ before it was over. If you analyze it carefully, it was a (relatively) free market and the effect of Supply & Demand that drove those "gas wars". The "gas price war" became extinct with the Carter administration... and so did cheap, high-quality gas. As government has become more and more involved in the petroleum industry, and industries that depend on it, the price of gas (and other petroleum products) has steadily risen at a rate many times higher than most anything else... even taking huge jumps at a time (something you never saw before government "fixed" things).
The "cartel pricing scam" don't exist... at least, not as you believe it does... it's just an invention so government has someone to point their finger at and pass the blame. The "scam" is government, not the free market. Government has even screwed-up the ethanol industry... it was the Carter blunders that jump-started ethanol, and it showed great promise, innovation and a chance for real economic growth in this country. But then government stuck their nose in... and look what we have now, a government (public) liability instead of an economic asset.
ponyexpress976
nipple fritters
Here's why I cut and split pine and other soft woods. I'm getting paid to take it down but I did have to put my saw into it (time/fuel invested). Now I have to load it onto the truck and remove it for the customer (more time/fuel) invested. I could now take it to a dump and dispose of it (throw my time and fuel invested into the trash?). Don't think I want to do that. So I'll invest a small additional amount of time/fuel and get it processed. Next winter, I will have already been paid to heat my house. Or, rather than burn the premium stuff myself, an additional cord or two goes out the door. I have the supply. The wife demands a warm house. Law of supply and demand proven.
ponyexpress976
nipple fritters
If that makes me a shyster...so be it.
blackdogon57
Addicted to ArboristSite
I hear ya. I'm burning basswood right now. Ended up with about 10 cords of it last summer when I bought logs from a construction site. It actually burns pretty well considering its weight. Great for this time of year when the temps are just below freezing. I won't sell it because no one will buy it. Also been adding it as a bonus for good customers who I know will appreciate some free wood on top of what they buy.
ponyexpress976
nipple fritters
I look at it this way, it's an otherwise "waste" product I have to deal with. Why not turn the waste into an asset?
origionalrebel
ArboristSite Operative
as far as i'm concerned, you ain't never split no tough wood iffn you ain't split live oak! great firewood though
That live oak is some tuff wood for sure. I don't even mess with it.
zogger
Tree Freak
This is way too complex to get into with a few forum posts, the oil industry in general. I think we are both right, but I will disagree on "regs" as they way more benefit from our governmental structure than not, and it is cartel pricing. Heck, we provide security and price support via our military (as in I hope no one thinks decades of heavy dotmil presence in the middle east is to spread "freedoms"). Or how about "voluntary" ,measurements of what is pumped out of public land. And in honor of the last semi decent prez whack day, the oil depletion allowance...and why are they allowed to export both crude and refined, but can't seem to get the price dropped internally? Private land oil, go ahead, off the public land..why is it exported? Then they complain "regulations" lead to less refineries, yet they forget to mention the expansion of a lot of refineries and some they closed on their own.
Basically, the oil industry is crying crocodile tears to keep the prices up. They claim not enough to pump and can't refine it, yet they are the ones doing that to keep prices up. Plus all the crooked and bloody regime change and support this weeks dictator over yonder stuff.
Anyway, too complex for forum posts. this is entire phd thesis action and even then it would only scratch the surface. My only main contention is, it is way crooked , just way way crooked, and government regs are way down the list of so called energy problems as regards oil and oil products.
Yes, I remember the olden daze, I am a little older than you. I have bought gas at 12.9, the cheapest, yes, during a local price war.
I also remember during the embargo how the news guys had vids of huge tankers anchored up offshore as the price kept rising. Same time I lost my job because couldn't get there, local was ten bucks a gallon, two gallons max, real long wait in mile long lines to get it. Luckily I found a closer job fast, bicycle range.
Those low prices around here come from tree companies.
During down times when there hourly workers are idle between jobs, they split wood.
I certainly can blame them.
If I had an endless supply of wood and idle workers then I’d put them on firewood duty.
Oh c'mon man... zogger, brother, you're not lookin' at the big picture...
If it wasn't for all the government meddling in the free market, non of that stuff you're bitchin' about would be possible (at least, nowhere near the extent it is now).
The corruption is made possible because of government regulations and control... look at the Social Security system, the Welfare system, Food Stamps, Alternative Energies, the IRS, EPA, low income housing, OSHA, the post office for criminy-sake's ... all of them many, many, many, many times more corrupt, and/or screwed-up, than anything operating solely in the free market. The government even stuck their fingers in home loans during the 80's and look where that got us... the largest economic downturn since the Great Depression (and if ya' study that, the government had a hand in it also). They took over the Railroads and near destroyed them, then bailed them out, then near destroyed them again. The auto industry was thriving in this country, providing jobs to hundreds ofmillions thousands (directly or indirectly) before government stepped with ridiculous, unrealistic regulations causing corruption to go over-the-top... now their broke for the third time in my lifetime, and the government bails them out again, just continuing the cycle of corruption. They've been regulating Wall Street for over 100 years and the corruption just keeps increasing... and their answer is more regulation 
Government ain't the answer, or solution... neither side of the Washington isle... we've lost sight of what federal government is supposed to be in this country... what the Constitution spells out what it is allowed to be.
OK... I'm done... before I end up goin' campin'.
If it wasn't for all the government meddling in the free market, non of that stuff you're bitchin' about would be possible (at least, nowhere near the extent it is now).
The corruption is made possible because of government regulations and control... look at the Social Security system, the Welfare system, Food Stamps, Alternative Energies, the IRS, EPA, low income housing, OSHA, the post office for criminy-sake's ... all of them many, many, many, many times more corrupt, and/or screwed-up, than anything operating solely in the free market. The government even stuck their fingers in home loans during the 80's and look where that got us... the largest economic downturn since the Great Depression (and if ya' study that, the government had a hand in it also). They took over the Railroads and near destroyed them, then bailed them out, then near destroyed them again. The auto industry was thriving in this country, providing jobs to hundreds of
Government ain't the answer, or solution... neither side of the Washington isle... we've lost sight of what federal government is supposed to be in this country... what the Constitution spells out what it is allowed to be.
OK... I'm done... before I end up goin' campin'.
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zogger
Tree Freak
"live oak" reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_live_oak
toughest wood I ever split was around a 6 ft diameter dead elm I was given decades ago. Cut some rounds, not many, then a few thinner cookies, with a big crosscut, then tried splitting it with an axe and...hmm..I did eventually manage to get some pieces small enough to fit in the stove...it wasn't pretty.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_live_oak
toughest wood I ever split was around a 6 ft diameter dead elm I was given decades ago. Cut some rounds, not many, then a few thinner cookies, with a big crosscut, then tried splitting it with an axe and...hmm..I did eventually manage to get some pieces small enough to fit in the stove...it wasn't pretty.....
zogger
Tree Freak
Oh c'mon man... zogger, brother, you're not lookin' at the big picture...
If it wasn't for all the government meddling in the free market, non of that stuff you're bitchin' about would be possible (at least, nowhere near the extent it is now).
The corruption is made possible because of government regulations and control... look at the Social Security system, the Welfare system, Food Stamps, Alternative Energies, the IRS, EPA, low income housing, OSHA, the post office for criminy-sake's ... all of them many, many, many, many times more corrupt, and/or screwed-up, than anything operating solely in the free market. The government even stuck their fingers in home loans during the 80's and look where that got us... the largest economic downturn since the Great Depression (and if ya' study that, the government had a hand in it also). They took over the Railroads and near destroyed them, then bailed them out, then near destroyed them again. The auto industry was thriving in this country, providing jobs to hundreds of millions before government stepped with ridiculous, unrealistic regulations causing corruption to go over-the-top... now their broke for the third time in my lifetime, and the government bails them out again, just continuing the cycle of corruption. They've been regulating Wall Street for over 100 years and the corruption just keeps increasing... and their answer is more regulation
Government ain't the answer, or solution... neither side of the Washington isle... we've lost sight of what federal government is supposed to be in this country... what the Constitution spells out what it is allowed to be.
OK... I'm done... before I end up goin' campin'.
I am not disagreeing with you other than I contend a lot of these regulations are promulgated by those same companies, those and others that tend to help them. I agree, massive corruption, and those with the billions to spend pay for that corruption. Regulators/bureaucrats leave government once they get their pensions, and go to work for the industries they were regulating. Funny coincidence..not. the regulations, follow the food chain every way it goes, go against any sort of free market and help to insure the cartels continuuing dominance.
Yes, I would like a free constitutional government as well, but in the real world, the regs mostly go to protect the larger entrenched industries. yes, you will hear them protest about this or that, but...follow the food chains farther, you see where they make out like bandits and use the misdirection to make it seem like they are victims when they are not.
There's no real free trade or unfettered simple supply/demand capitalism, we have a controlled cash paid for business/corporate meld. Mussolini called it what it really is.
That is simplistic, but..they talk out of both sides of their mouths a lot.
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